Author Topic: The lowly .308 (Read 4023 times)

mannyrock · « **Reply #30 on:** October 16, 2009, 04:42:09 AM »

In standard factory loads, the .308 has 94% of the energy of a .30-06, and almost 30% less recoil (free recoil energy). Sorry, who needs a .30-06?

In his book, the Hunting Rifle, Boddington stated that in the hunting field, he never saw any practical difference between the killing power of the .30-06 and the .308. Sorry, who needs a .30-06?

I will concede one point: If I were going Grizzly hunting, and I had a choice between the two, I would take the .30-06. But that ain't ever gonna happen for me, and probably never for you either. And, assuming I had more than one day's notice before the hunt, I would take a magnum, not a .30-06.

Just my opinions,

Mannyrock

gendoc · « **Reply #31 on:** October 16, 2009, 05:19:30 AM »

quote " the 06 will do everything that the .308 will do"

plus jar your brain a'lil more....

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #32 on:** October 16, 2009, 05:50:52 AM »

I have both, but for all day carry deer hunting east of the Mississippi, the 308 is all you need. Lighter rifles especially bolts and levers. Handi's it is a tossup.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #33 on:** October 16, 2009, 06:02:39 AM »

the 06 will also shoot 220 bullets , don't recall see 308 with 220 gr bullets in factory loads

Lefty Dude · « **Reply #34 on:** October 16, 2009, 06:16:04 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on October 16, 2009, 06:02:39 AM

the 06 will also shoot 220 bullets , don't recall see 308 with 220 gr bullets in factory loads

If I want to shoot a 30 cal. bullet above a 200 gr. It will be a 8mm and above, not an 06.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #35 on:** October 16, 2009, 06:23:34 AM »

Fantastic . But someone may only want to or can only own one gun . Myself i would use a 300 win mag. but that's just me.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #36 on:** October 16, 2009, 07:54:01 AM »

I've killed a lot of deer and elk with the .308, but not with a Handi, it's plenty of gun for either at most common big game hunting ranges, in my 308 Ultra bull barrel, the 168gr TSX BT works excellent with Varget using Barnes data. I load the 200gr Nosler Partiton in my 30-06 Ultracomp to about 2600fps, I just checked the COL for the 200gr Partition in the .308 Ultra, here the longish throat of H&Rs really turns in your favor as the COL length to the lands is 3.060" putting the base of the bullet at the neck/shoulder datum leaving plenty of room for max loads and maybe a little more, Nosler lists a max velocity of 2571fps in their 24" barrel at a COL of 2.810", using the longer COL you should easily be able achieve 30-06 velocities with the bigger bullets. Of course in the H&R or any other single shot, the COL can be lengthened too if the chamber allows it, I load the same bullet in the 30-06 Ultracomp to 3.375" compared to 3.340" for the SAAMI spec.

I shot a 6 shot string with the 168gr TSX just to see how heat affected the bull barrel, I shot 2 loads in ½gr steps, 3 shots each, all back to back, the 42gr load of Varget was a diagonal string that measures .911”, each shot even spaced, the 42.5gr load was just above it, but one shot even with the first of that weight and one above and to the right slightly which could easily have been my fault, not the gun's, that group measuring 1”, I think this was done on a rainy day since I don't have any velocity data, the only work done on the forend was fitting so the forend will just stay on without the screw and the addition of a forend tip pressure point per the FAQs.

Tim

http://www.barnesbullets.com/images/308WinWeb.pdf

peternap · « **Reply #37 on:** October 16, 2009, 11:53:02 AM »

Quote from: gendoc on October 16, 2009, 05:19:30 AM

quote " the 06 will do everything that the .308 will do"

plus jar your brain a'lil more....

Recoil is our friend

I'm not sure where Manny came up with the 30% figure but I think it may have Mother Goose on the cover. Yes, there is less recoil but not that much.
Besides, anyone that has trouble with 06 recoil better stay away from shotguns. Always amaze me at people who shoot Doves all day but complain about getting bumped by their 30/06 or for that matter 45/70

Saloon slug · « **Reply #38 on:** October 17, 2009, 08:22:33 AM »

Quote from: peternap on October 16, 2009, 11:53:02 AM

Quote from: gendoc on October 16, 2009, 05:19:30 AM
quote " the 06 will do everything that the .308 will do"

plus jar your brain a'lil more....

Recoil is our friend

I'm not sure where Manny came up with the 30% figure but I think it may have Mother Goose on the cover. Yes, there is less recoil but not that much.
Besides, anyone that has trouble with 06 recoil better stay away from shotguns. Always amaze me at people who shoot Doves all day but complain about getting bumped by their 30/06 or for that matter 45/70

No the reduction in recoil ain't any where that much.
There is a big difference in shooting dove and shooting rifles. Most people shoot rifles from a bench or sitting position which amplifies felt recoil. Dove hunting is usually done in a unsupported standing position where your body moves with the recoil minimizing the felt affect. Apples and oranges in the way they are shot. I can shoot skeet all day with 12ga bird loads but a 30-06 from a bench is brutal.

44 Man · « **Reply #39 on:** October 17, 2009, 01:54:09 PM »

I was talking to my buddy Mikie the other day. Said I'd like to move up in capability from my 30-30 handi and was thinking of a good caliber between that and my 45-70 Handi. I asked his advice what I should get for my next Handi..... his response was a .308, for all the reasons already mentioned. I was surprised by his answer. I got side tracked and bought the 7-08 and love it, but it's still on my 'to do' list. 44 Man

Swampman · « **Reply #40 on:** October 17, 2009, 01:58:42 PM »

It's a great caliber in a bolt gun or a semi-auto. In the Handi I prefer the .30-30.

myarmor · « **Reply #41 on:** October 17, 2009, 04:06:10 PM »

I am late to the post but I don't think I would EVER put 'Lowly" and "308" in the same sentence!
It's been known to be a boring round because it's just that predictable.... thats a problem you want to have

-Aaron

Gerry N. · « **Reply #42 on:** October 17, 2009, 05:44:22 PM »

Like Maglvr44, I prefer the 7.62X51Rmm and have found it will kill very dead anything I've wanted dead.

That said, I do have a Ruger #1 and a Chilean M1912-61 in 308 Win. / 7.62x51 NATO, either of which will also do what I require of them.

Gerry N.

mannyrock · « **Reply #43 on:** October 18, 2009, 11:42:30 AM »

Dear Guys,

A few days ago I wrote that the .308 has about 30% less free recoil energy than the .30-06, in standard factory loadings. A few folks pointed out that this had to be incorrect.

I have rechecked my calculations, and they were right. My number was wrong.

In standard factory ammo of 150 to 180 grain bullets, the increase in the amount of free recoil energy that is created by going from the .308 up to the .30-06 varies from about 18% to 22%, depending on the load. This is still a huge increase in statistical terms.

And, someone indicated that the .30-06 was superior to the .308 because it could fire 220 grain bullets. Again, I say, who cares about 220 grain bullets? What for? Who needs them? Not one in 100,000 of us is ever going to hunt grizzly, and if we do, even the .30-06 would be a poor choice for that.

But, if you love long actions, more rifle weight, 20% more recoil, and 220 grain bullets, then yes, the .30-06 is the rifle for you. :-)

Best,

Mannyrock

spikehorn · « **Reply #44 on:** October 18, 2009, 12:05:47 PM »

Quote from: peternap on October 16, 2009, 04:16:31 AM

I might as well be the one to make all the .308 owner mad.

First, the .308 is a fine cartridge and I have several.
That said, the only reason for the 308 is to have a 30/06 class cartridge in a shorter action.
There is some argument that it's more accurate but I've never seen it.

In a single shot like the Handi, there is absolutely NO reason for one, unless you don't want to rechamber and can't find an 06.

The 06 will do everything the 308 will do and then some at a slightly lower pressure.

My hunting buddy swears by his 06, but I've taken just as many deer with my 308 and more woodchucks at longer ranges. So I think I'll stick with my 308!

peternap · « **Reply #45 on:** October 18, 2009, 12:37:31 PM »

Quote from: mannyrock on October 18, 2009, 11:42:30 AM

Dear Guys,

A few days ago I wrote that the .308 has about 30% less free recoil energy than the .30-06, in standard factory loadings. A few folks pointed out that this had to be incorrect.

I have rechecked my calculations, and they were right. My number was wrong.

In standard factory ammo of 150 to 180 grain bullets, the increase in the amount of free recoil energy that is created by going from the .308 up to the .30-06 varies from about 18% to 22%, depending on the load. This is still a huge increase in statistical terms.

And, someone indicated that the .30-06 was superior to the .308 because it could fire 220 grain bullets. Again, I say, who cares about 220 grain bullets? What for? Who needs them? Not one in 100,000 of us is ever going to hunt grizzly, and if we do, even the .30-06 would be a poor choice for that.

But, if you love long actions, more rifle weight, 20% more recoil, and 220 grain bullets, then yes, the .30-06 is the rifle for you. :-)

Best,

Mannyrock

Manny, the best rifle for XX is a subject that has been fought since gunpowder was invented. There is no concrete answer. It depends on the needs and the shooter.

BUT... people who throw out absolutes that are so far off base, they aren't even in the ball park, just makes any argument they make, look suspect.

We've gone from 30% less recoil to 20% and even that's not right.

Now we're going to one in 100,000 never hunting Grizzly and you would have to include hunting other species or even fishing in Grizzly country.... That came from the same Mother Goose book the 30% was in.

Swampman · « **Reply #46 on:** October 18, 2009, 12:50:53 PM »

I just wish we could order a .30-40 Krag or a .308 Marlin or a .307 Winchester so we'd have high performance and a rim for extraction & headspacing.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #47 on:** October 18, 2009, 11:58:44 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on October 18, 2009, 12:50:53 PM

I just wish we could order a .30-40 Krag or a .308 Marlin or a .307 Winchester so we'd have high performance and a rim for extraction & headspacing.

My 307 conversion of a Survivor 308 was very simple to do!! I didn't even need to swap the extractor!!! I bought a 30-30 extractor for the conversion but a little cutting to the 308 orig was all that was needed!!! I can still shoot 308's and it shoots GREAT too!!

CW

Mitch in MI · « **Reply #48 on:** October 19, 2009, 04:41:40 AM »

Quote from: mannyrock on October 15, 2009, 06:25:20 AM

It will easily take anything from woodchucks through moose.

But a 30-06 Handi-Rifle is good for everything from Moose to squirrel. (whatever happened to that guy, anyway?)

spikehorn · « **Reply #49 on:** October 19, 2009, 04:57:55 AM »

Quote from: Mitch in MI on October 19, 2009, 04:41:40 AM

Quote from: mannyrock on October 15, 2009, 06:25:20 AM

It will easily take anything from woodchucks through moose.

But a 30-06 Handi-Rifle is good for everything from Moose to squirrel. (whatever happened to that guy, anyway?)

Is there anything left of the squirrel? (wink)

45-70.gov · « **Reply #50 on:** October 19, 2009, 05:02:44 AM »

Re: The lowly .308

the man ought to be slapped

MSP Ret · « **Reply #51 on:** October 19, 2009, 05:12:38 AM »

Is someone here saying someting bad about that great american cartridge the 30-06? I hope not, if so it must be some young-un or someone that does not have one. I love all of mine!!!....<><....

I like my .308 as well, but there is something intangible about the old, the great, 30-06, just as there is about the 45-70. Besides, both the 30-06 and the 45-70 just plain work, they work well, and they work well every time they are needed!!!

jrnsuz · « **Reply #52 on:** October 19, 2009, 08:21:05 AM »

The .308 v 30-06 argument has been going on since the .308 was released to market. In practical terms, I can't see any difference down range. As far as recoil, the difference is so slight, in FELT recoil, that it doesn't matter IMHO. My personal choice is the .308 simply because, since I shoot a bolt, I can keep the rifle in my shoulder and my face on the stock while cycling the bolt. Can't do that with any 30-06 I've ever shot. Others experiences may be different but that's it for me.

mannyrock · « **Reply #53 on:** October 19, 2009, 12:10:36 PM »

Well hmmm JrnSuz, you must be made of iron. :-) On the one hand, your experience is that the difference in felt recoil between the .30-06 and .308 is very slight, but on the other hand, the recoil of the .30-06 throws your face and cheek up of the rifle stock, but the .308 doesn't.

I give up! :-)

Regards, Mannyrock

tykempster · « **Reply #54 on:** October 19, 2009, 12:42:48 PM »

Give me a 30-06 any day. You can make it go slow if you want, you can make it go faster than the 308 if "needed". But the argument about long actions and such in a Handi rifle forum is pointless.

Swampman · « **Reply #55 on:** October 19, 2009, 01:00:52 PM »

Having owned a bunch of both I much prefer the .30-06.

spikehorn · « **Reply #56 on:** October 19, 2009, 01:31:39 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on October 19, 2009, 01:00:52 PM

Having owned a bunch of both I much prefer the .30-06.

Having owned numerous 308's I have no need for a 30-06, 270, or a 25-06 JMHO

quickdtoo · « **Reply #57 on:** October 19, 2009, 01:36:18 PM »

I like em all, I have yet to kill anything with the 270 or 25-06, but I'll be working on that starting with the 25-06 Thursday!!!

Tim

spikehorn · « **Reply #58 on:** October 20, 2009, 05:44:03 AM »

Tim I will have to admit that I like the looks of your 26" barreled 25-06. Here in N.Y. early ML started on the 17th in the northern zone and bow in the southern zone. Took two doe last weekend with the ML. My son and I head back up to the northern zone Halloween weekend to do some rifle hunting,and we will both be using 308's.

spikehorn · « **Reply #59 on:** October 20, 2009, 05:54:08 AM »

was sitting here and something kept nagging me in the back of my mind! Is the 280 based on the 30-06 cartridge? if so then I do have an interest in something in the 30-06 family.