Midshipman gunners?

[cannonmn]

Here's a lantern slide recently for sale on evil bay.  There was no meaningful description, but I think it could show gunnery drill at the US Naval Academy.  I've asked some uniform experts about the uniforms to get more accurate info than my guesses.  The weapon of course is the 3.4 inch Dahlgren rifled boat howitzer.

Mr. Boom-I shamelessly stole your image of the town gunners of Ueberlingen and posted it on the CMH board, since there are so many "uniform nuts" over there.



http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/miscforumsetc/forums47/usnaboatriflephoto.jpg

[BoomLover]

Cannonmn, it does indeed look like gunnery practice for Naval Midshipman. Is the officer standing to the right regular Army, helping Midshipman drill in preparation for sea duty with the Dahlgren? Same gun, double duty as a land or sea piece? Practice would make them proficient in either venue, however it was mounted.

[KABAR2]

could the wall and the buildings be matched up to structures at the academy now?

After a closer look the wall appears to be plank construction so more than likely long gone or replaced by brick,

but I doubt the buildings have changed much.

 

[cannonmn]

Hopefully will find out soon, I sent pic to USNA museum curator.  BTW he had nothing to do with the display which was critiqued recently on this board, that was done under contract out of their head office and he was not involved, at least the way I understand it.

[cannonmn]

I did hear back from George Franks, president of the local Chesapeake Chapter of the CMH.  He agrees with USNA early 1870's and he's familiar with the architecture which existed at that time.  He recognized the midshipman uniforms.

[cannonmn]

Correction:  The weapon is a light 12-pounder Dahlgren boat howitzer.  I first thought it was the rifle, but those were all on the heavy boat howitzer carriage, and when I look at the bore again, and how tall the wheel is based on the midshipman standing nearby, it is certanly a light boat howitzer.  I should have remembered, anyway, from looking at records in the Nat. Archives, the light smoothbore howitzers were what was issued for training at the Naval Academy, they had a number of that model after the CW.

Is the officer standing to the right regular Army, helping Midshipman drill in preparation for sea duty with the Dahlgren?

My friend in CMH identifies the person with sword as a midshipman officer.  His rank insignia on sleeve appears to be that of midshipman ensign-one gold stripe with loop to indicate it is a midshipman rank, not commissioned officer.

[subdjoe]

It looks like No. 3 is reaching across and stopping the vent with his right hand.  I was under the impression that it was always the left hand that was used.

[cannonmn]

Good observation.  You will notice that it appears everyone in the lantern slide is left-handed, which of course is unlikely.  The lantern slide I guess shows in reverse unless you project it through a magic lantern, therefore the image here is reversed from the way it was taken.

[guardsgunner]

I think the boat howitzer has a lock on it. One side of the gun during the civil war the other side on those made after. It might be in the way of the left hand.
Primer pouches, cartridge boxes ect. belong on the right side of the body.


 Bob

[Cannoneer]

Mr. Boom-I shamelessly stole your image of the town gunners of Ueberlingen and posted it on the CMH board, since there are so many "uniform nuts" over there.

Cannonmn,
I have no argument with that, you're more than welcome to do so.

[subdjoe]

If it is reversed, then that puts No. 4 serving the vent.  And still reaching across his body to do it. I thought that part of the reason for No. 3 using the left hand (other than to prevent the loss of what for most people is the dominant hand) was to prevent that awkward crossing up.  Economy of motion and all that. 

I think most prints from the mid-1800s are reversed.  The best example I can think of is the one existing photo of Billy the Kid. Unless that lever action had the magazine feed port on the left, that photo is reversed.

[subdjoe]

If it is reversed (most likely, and something I had forgotten to take into account), then that puts No. 4 serving the vent.  And still reaching across his body to do it. I thought that part of the reason for No. 3 using the left hand (other than to prevent the loss of what for most people is the dominant hand) was to prevent that awkward crossing up.  Economy of motion and all that. 

I think most prints from the mid-1800s are reversed.  The best example I can think of is the one existing photo of Billy the Kid. Unless that lever action had the magazine feed port on the left, that photo is reversed.

[navygunner]

Whether it's #2 or #1position that rammer is being held with two hands and he looks forward of the muzzle blast cone also.

NG

[navygunner]

Received following froma fellow CW naval reenactor and uniform historian.
I saw this photo at the Naval Academy.  It is correct in time frame and description.  Upper Classmen do most of the military instruction there.  The Officer is probably 3rd or 4th year.  They did not start using the CW style PO badges for rank of mids until the 1890s.   The "Gun crew" are first and second year mids.  The braid on the front of their shirts designates this.  Nice old photo.  Too bad it's wasted on officers.
Steve

NG

[cannonmn]

Too bad it's wasted on officers.

Hmm, wonder if there's any possibility he's an ex-whitehat?

[navygunner]

 Yeppers he's a retired Signalman and I served 15 as an aviation ordnanceman

[cannonmn]

Thanks.  I don't know why it seems that signalmen hate officers more than just about any other rate.  I'd give ya my own sea story about it but don't have time except to say it occurred aboard USS MULLINNIX, DD-944, in Charleston SC ca. 1979.