Author Topic: savage vs. t/c icon (Read 4995 times)

Mr. Single Shot · « **on:** October 19, 2009, 08:34:17 AM »

if you were going to buy a new rifle based only on performance and accuracy, would you buy a savage or t/c icon? The calibers would be something like 22-250, 243, or 308.

trotterlg · « **Reply #1 on:** October 19, 2009, 11:00:33 AM »

Savage has the track record, the Icon may be good too. With S&W dropping the I-bolt I am wondering if the Icon is far behind. Larry

wareagleguy · « **Reply #2 on:** October 19, 2009, 01:08:27 PM »

Well, I can get a savage for 4 bills. Icon, forget it.

So I KNOW the Savage will shoot so it is not even a contest. SAVAGE.

iunderpressure · « **Reply #3 on:** October 20, 2009, 11:35:05 AM »

I had the same two rifles in mind before I purchased the icon. I love it. I got the weathershield version and have a couple loads that shoot under a half inch at 100 yards. It's my favorite rifle. I like the built in scope mounts. Mine is in 308 win.

If you messed with the I bolt you know why they are stopping production. The icon line just came out with a tactical line, and they are still coming out with new models. The icon isn't going any where.

MZ5 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 20, 2009, 11:47:26 AM »

I guess I remain the only person on the planet with multiple negative Savage experiences, but there they are. One or two were seriously bad, the others are just not special at all. One has been very good. OTOH, the Icon is very poorly fit and finished in the only example(s) I've handled, it sounds hollow somehow, and it's not cheap.

So, for me the answer is neither (I'd choose Marlin), but that's not what you asked. If they're the same money, or if the money was not part of the question, I'd choose what felt the best to me. You can't count on either being more accurate across the board.

trotterlg · « **Reply #5 on:** October 20, 2009, 04:09:03 PM »

For the price of an Icon you could pick up a real (not vanguard) Weatherby and have a proper rifle. Larry

wareagleguy · « **Reply #6 on:** October 21, 2009, 04:54:27 AM »

MZ5,
What were the problems with the savage rifles you had? Did you try to get Savage to fix the problems?

I am on my 6 savage rifle and have yet to have a lemon. Matter of fact I have a 7mm-08 Savage that will outshoot my 7mm-08 Sako. I am working on my new Savage Predator 243 and in the first 10 rounds I was able to produce a 5 shot group less than one inch.

I would really like to know what problems you have so maybe I could avoid any issues or maybe lookout for any future problems.

MZ5 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 21, 2009, 06:14:46 AM »

The first had a bad scope (pkg gun) PLUS a bad barrel. There was a tight spot and it just wouldn't shoot. Poor bluing quality, too. Savage wouldn't work on it. Another shoots fair at best for the first few shots, and then is just terrible. The bore also coppers up so badly (which is probably why it shoots poorly?) I can't hardly believe it. That one also has a hard time cycling the bolt; it's dragging very badly on something, and I think it's the ejector (it's a semi-CRF WSM rifle). It's not a deal-breaker, it's just annoying and shouldn't be that way. I'm not sending it to Savage.

There was another that shot fairly well, but would throw fliers randomly. That seems to have been a hard carbon issue in the barrel, but it kept coming back. It's gone now. Another was OK, but not special, and another is a very good shooter. The original 3-screw triggers are wonderful. The newer 2-screw triggers are not, and the Accu-Triggers are quite spotty; some are great, some are poor. The rifles above span the range from .204 through .300WSM.

I don't consider Savages to be bad guns, I just don't consider them to be any better than anyone else's. Plus, the high performance per dollar reputation they built a while back is all gone, IMO. They're now more expensive than just about anything else on the shelf everywhere I've been. Marlin is now what Savage was some years ago in terms of performance per dollar, IMO.

Frank46 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 21, 2009, 04:44:39 PM »

Have two 308's with heavy bbls. One rem vs and one savage 110fp. I had some problems with the savage. That plastic stock would let the action move each time it was fired.Filled the box just under where the frong guard screw went and bedded the first 1" of the bbl. That took care of that. The rem I can't get below 1", looks like a another bedding job I have to do didn't mind the work on the savage as I was bound and detirmined to get it shooting one way or another. So not my reworked savage consistently out shoots my rem. Frank

Mr. Single Shot · « **Reply #9 on:** October 22, 2009, 03:47:32 AM »

Thanks for all your help. I have a few savages and they are all shooters. I was contemplating the icon, but I think I'll hold off and buy another savage.....

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #10 on:** October 27, 2009, 10:51:40 AM »

Yes the Savage bolt is no longer the cheap gun unless you do not really care about the fancy polish and new trigger , then a stevens might fit your bill.
I had bought a package deal in 300 Rem short , and had issues with it . Sold it and forgot I would never buy another . Then I bought a 11FCNS this fall in 308 . It has the latest trigger and stock and am over all pleased with the rifle . That is until I took it to the range . Now with 1/2 inch groups with 180 gr bullets and Varget powder, I am very very pleased with the rifle. Well it might not be as smooth in bolt opening as My tikka or Winchester 70,but then , they do not group as well either .
You can look at the new Marlin bolts, then the plastic trigger guards turn me off . It is a cost saving measure and the guns overall shoot good , but these trigger guards break .
Overall one has to see what fits , see what features they like , compare what you you can afford .

JDMANN · « **Reply #11 on:** October 27, 2009, 03:58:48 PM »

I bought a T/C Venture last week (economy ICON). Loaded some 30-06 rounds up and went to the range. First 100 yard, 5 shot group was 3/4". Second group of 5 was 7/8". Not bad at all for the first go round. I really like the rifle and the trigger adjustment is easy, but I didn't want to change it's 3.25# pull. I own three Savages and love them, but I wanted to try something different this year. I don't think either brand will be better than the other (if the Savage has the Accutrigger).

Swampman · « **Reply #12 on:** October 27, 2009, 04:01:34 PM »

If accuracy is what you're looking for, I'd get a Remington 700 "the most accurate production centerfire rifle in the world." Of the 2 choices given I'd go with the Savage. The Icon is too heavy.

mirage1988 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 27, 2009, 05:54:18 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on October 27, 2009, 04:01:34 PM

If accuracy is what you're looking for, I'd get a Remington 700 "the most accurate production centerfire rifle in the world." Of the 2 choices given I'd go with the Savage. The Icon is too heavy.

Hmmm- 7 1/2 pounds too heavy and and a moa guarantee. Looks like remmie loses again.

http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/icon_weather_shield.php

trotterlg · « **Reply #14 on:** October 27, 2009, 07:14:14 PM »

I thought that Swampman had finaly seen the light and given up on those dangerous Remingtons but I guess not. Pigs will fly before an out of the box Remington out shoots an out of the box Savage. Larry

Swampman · « **Reply #15 on:** October 28, 2009, 12:01:04 AM »

Quote from: mirage1988 on October 27, 2009, 05:54:18 PM

Quote from: Swampman on October 27, 2009, 04:01:34 PM
If accuracy is what you're looking for, I'd get a Remington 700 "the most accurate production centerfire rifle in the world." Of the 2 choices given I'd go with the Savage. The Icon is too heavy.

Hmmm- 7 1/2 pounds too heavy and and a moa guarantee. Looks like remmie loses again.

http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/icon_weather_shield.php

With a wood stock it feels like 9 1/2. I've never played with the plastic ICON. I don't own plastic. You just can't beat a Remington. Every review I read on the ICON comment on the excessive weight so I'm not the only person who thinks it's too heavy.

mannyrock · « **Reply #16 on:** October 28, 2009, 06:13:27 AM »

OK, I have to throw in my 2 cents worth.

The Icon: My brother has one with the walnut stock. Very very nice fit and finish. He loves it. I just don't like the squared off shape of the trigger guard, as it gives it a Euro-look.

The Remington 700. Swampy. I have owned FOUR brand new out of the box Remington 700s in my life. Accuracy?

1 was incredibly accurate. It consistently shot .80 inch groups with factory ammo (Core-Lokts) out of the box. Superb.

1 was very good accuracy. It consistently shot 1.2 inch groups with factory ammo (Core-Lockts) out of the box.

1 was OK accuracy. It consistently shot 1.5 inch groups with factory ammo (Core-Lokts) out of the box.

1 was a dog. The bolt was very stiff to close on the round, and it only shot 2.2 inch groups with factory ammo (Core-Lokts) out of the box.

These 4 rifles were spread over a period of 40 years, starting in the mid-1970s. So, I think they are a fair sampling. My brother has owned three during those years, with similar results.

Bottom line: Yes, you can get a great Remington 700 out of the box, and maybe your "odds" of getting one are a little better than the other makes. But no, they are not wonderfully accurate factory rifles. There is a good chance of getting one that is just OK, or even a dog. These aren't my opinions. These are my historical facts.

And no, I don't judge the quality of a rifle by how it shoots some obtuse handload that has taken a year to develop. I judge it by how it shoots good quality factory ammo.

I think that for the money, the Remington 700 ADL, and the Savage 110 series, are the most accurate bargain rifles you can buy. Buty they certainly don't all shoot great.

Regards,

Mannyrock

jcn59 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:59:14 AM »

Did anyone EVER get a bad Icon or Venture?

I rest my case.

Yes, I have an Icon.

wfeher · « **Reply #18 on:** November 01, 2009, 04:23:34 PM »

i have 4 savages, 2 of them are bvss's and the other 2 are the varmiter low profile and my dad has two 1 bvss and 1 varmiter low profile. so out of six rifles every one shoots well under an inch and many shot quarter inch groups at 100yds with handloads and none shoot over an 1.250 with factory rounds. so how can we not be happy with savage you tell me.

torpedoman · « **Reply #19 on:** November 01, 2009, 04:32:11 PM »

Quote from: wfeher on November 01, 2009, 04:23:34 PM

i have 4 savages, 2 of them are bvss's and the other 2 are the varmiter low profile and my dad has two 1 bvss and 1 varmiter low profile. so out of six rifles every one shoots well under an inch and many shot quarter inch groups at 100yds with handloads and none shoot over an 1.250 with factory rounds. so how can we not be happy with savage you tell me.

Same results with my savages. bluing was crappy on the 22-250 but duracoat cured that.

JPShelton · « **Reply #20 on:** November 17, 2009, 10:14:23 PM »

Quote from: Mr. Single Shot on October 19, 2009, 08:34:17 AM

if you were going to buy a new rifle based only on performance and accuracy, would you buy a savage or t/c icon? The calibers would be something like 22-250, 243, or 308.

When last shopping for a rifle, the Icon was on my list of contenders. Nice rifles, and all of those that I handled sported gorgeous wood. They impressed me as being well made and stylish. I can understand why those who own them are pleased with them, but the Icon just didn't "feel right" in my hands. Hard to explain, really, but I just didn't fall in love with the model. Ultimately, I scored a $250.00 local gun show deal on a pre-owned Savage Model 10 "Sierra" in .243 and I am completely satisfied with it. It shoots 1 to 1.5 MOA groups, depending on ammo brand and type. It has a light, crisp, creep-free trigger. It feeds and functions flawlessly. I like the location of the three position safety selector as much as its silent operation. The only thing that comes close to spoiling my shooting joy with the Savage is initial bolt lift that is heavier than any other bolt action rifle I've owned. I can still maintain sight picture while running the rifle, so the bolt lift effort really isn't much of an issue to me. The Savage did "feel right" in my hands and if the same were true of the Icon, I'd be prattling on about it instead of the Savage that I currently shoot.

It would seem to me that it would be hard to go wrong with either, but I wouldn't wouldn't limit my choices to just those two brands. The new Marlin bolt action seems like a nice rifle. Lots of folks rave about Tikkas, Weatherbys, Sakos, Rugers, and we all know how Swampman feels about Remingtons. Then, there are CZ 550's, Brownings, and Winchester is back in the game, too. There's also a used market filled with stuff that just isn't made anymore. The best analogy I can think of is akin to thinking "blondes only" when chosing a spouse, which might cause you to miss out on Misses Right, if she happened to be a redhead or brunette. Why limit your shopping horizions like that?

JP

dross80 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 01, 2010, 04:52:44 PM »

I just bought an Icon in 243. The factory target that proves it is MOA or better, was .55, shot with Federal Powershok 80 grain. The day I got it, I had to shoot it right away, all the ammo they had in the Dick's that was on the way to the range was Fusion in 95 grain.

Sighted in the scope, shot my first group to test the accuracy: .49 inches. And I forgot to turn the scope up to max, so I shot that group on 6X.

I suspect that some handloads will improve it, though it doesn't really need much improvement.

Suffice to say, I'm an Icon fan, though I do want to build a project 308 from a Savage action.

the jigger · « **Reply #22 on:** February 02, 2010, 07:09:59 AM »

I'm a Savage/Stevens guy. Savage was not my first rifle. First was a 1903A3, sporterized and shot very well. I kept that rifle for years.
Times got hard and I sold it and did without for several years. My next was a Remington 600 in 6mm. Excellent shooter. Traded it for a .45cal Hawken and spent the next 10 years shooting competitively. When I finally decided to get back into centerfire rifles I didn't have a clue what to buy. A good friend who owns nothing but Wby. and Ruger suggested the Savage tactical(110fp).
Bought one! pre-accutrigger in 25/06. It made me a believer.
My point is ,you can't have experience until something or someone helps you make the "plunge".
I now have six Savage/Stevens rifles because someone helped me choose the first one and the experience was good.
I've stayed with them because of the versitility of the platform; for example, I have Savage/Stevens rifles in 250/3000 and 220Swift.
"Custom" rifles for under $1000.
The "out-of-the-box" argument is irrelevent to me. The only Savage/Stevens rifle that I have shot OOTB was the first one.
Call me old fashioned, but I don't care for the accutrigger. Every Savage/Stevens rifle I own wears a SSS trigger. That happens before it is shot the first time.
I also have experience with Remington, TC, Weatherby( I own a Vanguard in 25/06), and Ruger( I have a custom #3 in 250AI).

I stay primarily with Savage/Stevens for the versitility and the accuracy.

Sorry this tookso long!
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!

jimmyp50 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 11, 2010, 01:28:29 PM »

I don't own a savage, but I would take a savage over a TC any day of the week. I do own an encore.

ricehombre · « **Reply #24 on:** February 13, 2010, 12:47:40 AM »

I hate to use Savage and TC icon in the same sentence. The Icon is that much better. There is no need to try to make savage something it's not.

Swampman · « **Reply #25 on:** February 13, 2010, 12:49:50 AM »

It's still the weight issue with the Icon for me.

nomosendero · « **Reply #26 on:** February 13, 2010, 06:27:29 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on February 13, 2010, 12:49:50 AM

It's still the weight issue with the Icon for me.

I am surprised, I would have thought not being a Rem would be the issue.

Swampman · « **Reply #27 on:** February 14, 2010, 02:01:30 AM »

No that wasn't one of the choices given.

nomosendero · « **Reply #28 on:** February 14, 2010, 03:26:29 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on February 14, 2010, 02:01:30 AM

No that wasn't one of the choices given.

A little humor Swampie, I allready read the earlier post that said "you just can't beat a Remington"

Concerning what a rifle weighs, whether or not that is an issue depends on the shooter, if it is not too heavy for Mr Single Shot, then it's not too heavy. One must look at the gun he is interested in & handle it for himself.