Author Topic: nagant bolt? (Read 1227 times)

hillbill · « **on:** October 13, 2003, 03:24:17 PM »

hey guys! anybody out there shoot a nagant bolt in 7.62 x54? i kind of like the feel of them and might perchase one. are they accurate? what do shells run? what do i look for when buying one? and what are they selling for ?

Hank McMauser · « **Reply #1 on:** October 13, 2003, 04:08:59 PM »

I just picked up a 1934 tula hex-91/30 a few months ago from Dunham's sporting goods for$85.00 it's a century imported refurb, the barrel looks very shiny, I get about 3" at 100 yds with the czech silvertips(.308 154gr. steel core proj.),I slugged my bore it measures .311, haven't tried any other ammo yet, but it shoots as good as my eyes can.I have heard the finn m-39's are the real accurate one's but haven't scraped up the money for one yet :cry:
Hank

Peddler Parsons · « **Reply #2 on:** October 13, 2003, 05:53:36 PM »

I got one last year, new unissued of $90.00, has to do a lot of cleaning to get the cosmoline out of everything the cheap shells about $45.00 for a case, good to use for practice but the Wolf are better for hunting. The gun is short (carbine style) and loud! wores than a 06 and it is compareable to the 06 in power just a little less

Robert357 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 13, 2003, 06:46:39 PM »

The local sporting good store had both the 91/30 and the Mod 44 on sale for the same price. Which is better? The barrel on the 91/30 is much longer, but it is an "older design" and might be part of those manufactured during WWII when they wanted to get them to the front real fast and didn't finish things as well. The Mod 44 is a newer design, much shorter barrel and most were produced post WWII.

I always thougth that a longer barrel would be more accuracte, if for no other reason than providing a longer site base. The shorter Mod 44 is probably a "handier" more natural pointing rifle.

I could talk myself into either one, or both and figure out which I liked best!!!! No, wife would never go for that and there is no room in the gun safe for two, unless a sold something, and I couldn't do that!

OK, which should I get the Mod 44 or the 91/30. I really want the most accurate rifle...

thanks.

1911crazy · « **Reply #4 on:** October 14, 2003, 02:30:05 AM »

The longer barrel the more accurate go for the 91/30!!!!
Go to "aimsurplus.com" go to rifles Erik has them for $69 right now. I heard about them on another forum their in great shape and good shooters too. Russian Mosin Nagant 91/30's BigBill

Checkout the closeouts too he has Albanian SKS's bargain hunter specials cheap but they may need fixin too but its a great price. And look at the ammo their too $59/500rds of hungarian Etalon 7.62x54 ammo.

Now remember just having one mosin isn't enough?? Get this russian then go for the Finnish 91/30 [SA] at Samco Global arms too their in really nice condition too.

Robert357 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 05, 2003, 08:52:26 PM »

OK, I took your advise on accuracy and put down my $79.99 plus tax at Big 5 sporting goods, did the Brady Instant check and walked out with my MN 91/30, "arsenal refinished" with bayonet, pouch, sling, and misc. parts, including a greasy oiler bottle.

Now what the heck do I do? I have cleaned up two SKS's many years ago that had way more packing gease, so this looks a bit easier. Any articles or past discussions on how to clean one of these babies up, check the firing pin depth/exposure and then take it to the range for fun and games?

I assume that take it apart, clean the grease off, lightly oil, and then put back together is all that is really required.

I checked out two at the store and took the one with the better stock, bore, and major parts that had matching numbers.

I will be ordering a set of Lee Dies and maybe purcashing a case lenght guage and autoprimer shell holder. I have been looking at buying loaded Winchester Ammo as a way of getting brass cheaply.

The thing that I am curious about is that my SKS 7.62x39 is really a .312 bullet, but all the manuals say the 7.62x54R is a .308 bullet. I keep remembering folks saying that it is really a little bigger and that Brit 303 & Jap 7.7 bullets at .310 to .312 might shoot more accurately.

My goal is to try to work up some accurate handloads. If I can get nice accuracy, then I will keep this. If I can't, then maybe I will trade it in as partial payment for a different military surplus rifle or give it to one of my sons and try again. Any thoughts would be appreciated in getting started.

Thanks

1911crazy · « **Reply #6 on:** November 06, 2003, 02:08:48 AM »

I purchased a lot of the russian barnaul 7.62x54 SP hunting ammo and Wolf SP to try because its so cheap $6 a box it may or may not be worth reloading or used as a backup round too. Sooner or later I may reload too just incase its good to have different ways of getting/making ammo too. Now in accuracy with my 30-06 I was shooting max loads and found out if I dropped 2 grains of powder lower than max load the accuracy was awesome and the performance was still good too.(we dropped a bear with it after testing it in wet sand first) I tested all my rifle reloads in wet sand before hunting with them. BigBill

I have had very good luck in using Speer 180gr magnum mag-tips if you hunt with it.

Robert357 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 06, 2003, 07:25:30 AM »

Bill or anyone else;

There is a methodical way of getting optimum accuracy that I like to use, it is called the ladder method. I purchased 3 20-round boxes of Winchester 180 grain ammo that is reloadable so I can load up 50 rounds and have a few extras.

The method involves looking for sweat spots, i.e. places where slight changes in the amount of powder make little to no change in point of impact and where slight changes in OAL make little to no change in point of impact. Once these two sweet spots are determined then you have a round that basically has the bullet leaving the barrel at a vibration node.

Enought of that. My real question is should I be using .308 dia bullets or something in the range of .310 to .312 inches. I have some 1950's 32 ACP bullets. I may take one of these and use my kenetic bullet puller to pull the lead bullet. Then take a dowel and push it through the barrel and then "mic" out the slug that comes out the other end. What is your experience as to bullet diameter?

Also any special cleaning suggestions? I know you like Molly grease on the trigger and I have bought some that you suggested and used it on my SKS triggers and some handgun triggers to make them much smoother.

My MN 91/30 seems pretty cleaned up all ready. The bore needs to be really cleaned (I will start with Hoppe's No. 9, then use Sweats 7.62, then some mild Bore Paste, then Hoppe's No. 9 to finish up.) The stock isn't oily or greasy, but I will probably rub it down with some very very fine steel wool.

I will also take parts of the stock apart just to make sure I have no hidden rust along the barrel. I have some touch-up bluing pen's that I got from Midway awhile back that I may use on any cleaned rust spots. I will also strip the action and maybe use some spray gun scrubber to get into all the nooks and crannies that I don't want to take apart.

Then I will put everything together and oil it all very lightly with a good gun oil. Finally, when I get ready to go to the range, I will run some dry patches through the bore and then fire away with the Winchester Non-corrosive ammo just to get a feel for the rifle. Once I have say 20 rounds of empty brass, I will start a ladder accuracy load work up.

Any suggestions would be appreciated, especially as to bullet diameter and cleanning suggestions.

Mikey · « **Reply #8 on:** November 06, 2003, 08:36:45 AM »

Robert357: the 7.62x54R Russian round carries a 308 diameter bore, not a 311-312. The problem with some of the various manufactures of this rifle is the sloppy chamber that can lead to the mistake of thinking you should use a 311-312 bullet. Do not do that.

My brother picked up a Polish M44 that would not group. We removed the bayonet assembly and ground the lug down, then bedded the action, and the darn thing would print to poi all day long. Wolfe ammo is crud, the Sellier and Bellot is better, if not best. Great loads in that are the 180 to 200 grain. As with many european cartridges, it falls midway twixt the 308 and 30-06 in power, and in it's shorter military configuration makes a great knock-around general all purpose rifle.

If you need instructions on bolt disassembly, let me know. HTH. Mikey.

Robert357 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 06, 2003, 08:44:27 PM »

Thank you for the information on the bullet diameter.

I think that I found an article that discusses clean up and strip down/cleaning
of an MN.

http://www.goldenloki.com/guns/mosin/mnindex.htm

While I want to keep mine stock for now, and don't want to make the modifications, the article still has some good info.

I looked over the cleaning kit. It looks like the kit includes a false muzzle, a jag and an interesting "T" handle with "stop" on the cleaning rod.

I would like to look at a good website with information on the go/no-go firing pin protrusion length and the checking tool in the cleaning kit.

Robert357 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 15, 2003, 02:01:08 PM »

Back from the range today. I got a 7-shot 3-inch group at 100 yards with stock iron sights. I am pretty impressed with the rifle. The group was shooting Winchester Metric 7.62x54R Russian with 180 gr FMJ Boattail bullets. This is reloadable ammo. Actually I deprimed, full length sized, trimmed, deburred, reamed the flash hole and cleaned the primer pocket on them already. They are in my tumbler getting all the sizing lube off. I expect them to come out nice and clean.

For what it is worth my MN 1891/30 bore slugged out (pushed completely though, the barrel) at .310. I have so far shot a box of Wolf 147 grain bullets and two boxes of Winchester 180 grain bullets. The Wolf bullets measured 0.310 for most of the bearing surface, whith the last about 1/8-inch measuring 0.311. The Winchester bullets were a very clear .311 inch diameter.

I have ordered some 0.310 bullets to reload with. I hope I can tighten the groups up a little. Still for $80 3-inch with iron sights at 100 yards and factory ammo is not bad.

NRAJOE · « **Reply #11 on:** November 16, 2003, 01:17:36 AM »

They are addictive...bought a M-38 a week or so ago, got a 91/30 last week, and will probably go back for the pristine M-44 that was there also! :eek: :-)

Stuffy25thIA · « **Reply #12 on:** November 16, 2003, 04:31:05 AM »

I have a 91/30 that I bought several year's ago. It came with a new Tikke barrel. Have shoot only cast bullet's thru it.
I like to shoot a 110 gr. cast bullet sized at .311 This works great, will touch holes at 50 yd. with a 5 shoot group.

hillbill · « **Reply #13 on:** November 16, 2003, 08:16:36 AM »

hey guys! anyone out there putting scopes on their nagants?

Stuffy25thIA · « **Reply #14 on:** November 16, 2003, 10:38:46 AM »

Got a model 39, hex receiver. That has a red dot scope on it. Only room for one mount, but I have shoot it for several years and it hasn't moved once.

thecowboyace · « **Reply #15 on:** December 19, 2003, 06:31:01 PM »

SOG has them for $39.99. Ordered one and paid for bore cleaning and handpicked, $20.00 and it was worth it. It has been refurbished, barrel is immaculate, bluing 100%, wood is near excellent. And it is on the button. Will be putting a scout mount and 2-x7 LER on it. Have another M44 thta had absolutely no bluing on it, wood is fair so I will be putting a standard scope on it and keep for me. That leaves the good MN44 for my youngest son.

1911crazy · « **Reply #16 on:** December 20, 2003, 04:59:34 PM »

You just can't beat the prices on mosin nagants right now their hard to pass up?? All these deals?? Aim has the only M91/59's thats M91/30's that are shortened you know like the shortened swede's M96/38. There supposed to be very accurate too. BigBill

It seems like the supply of mosins will never dryup but i'm sure in time they will like anything else so get them now while their cheap be frugal like me?? Where can you get such a rifle wether you just shoot or hunt for under $100 heck some are $59?? This is still prices from the early 80's? Even the 7.62x54 surplus and hunting ammo is cheaper now than back then too. It doesn't get any better than this?

hillbill · « **Reply #17 on:** December 20, 2003, 05:30:55 PM »

hey bigbill! im getting the feeling yu kind of like the nagant? maybe im just imagineing things?

1911crazy · « **Reply #18 on:** December 21, 2003, 05:02:35 AM »

Quote from: hillbill

hey bigbill! im getting the feeling yu kind of like the nagant? maybe im just imagineing things?

Yes hillbill I'm starting to like the mosin nagants too as well as all the rest of the military guns too. Cheap gun with cheap ammo what else can we ask for?? Frugal BigBill

HoCoMDHunter · « **Reply #19 on:** January 25, 2004, 06:59:30 AM »

Quote from: hillbill

hey guys! anyone out there putting scopes on their nagants?

Just helped a friend do this. It took some time sawing off the bolt handle and filing it down. The kit (he bought it from Sportsman's Guide I think) had us tap a hole into the bolt and screw the new handle onto it. This was fairly unsatisfactory. But the screw held it in place for the welder

. After welding the bolt and installing the scope mount everythig works very well. We took it to the range the other day. Was able to get 6" groups @ 100 yds with the cheap surplus ammo he bought. I think I have successfully talked him into getting a couple boxes of Winchester ammo so that I can reload these for him. I have never loaded for this round, but it looks like it can use all the same components and powder as my 30-06.