Damaged deer herd?

[live2hunt]

I have kind of an odd question, but I'll give you some insight first. I have a camp that I hunt at every season. The past couple of years, it seems the deer have been disapearing. Last year, I found that the landowner down below us has been feeding with an automatic feeder. He puts the feeder out mid summer, and pulls it days before the season starts, shoots a nice buck, and does not return till the snow is gone.

My question is, can feeding like this damage the herd in the area? Do the deer get used to the grain and stop looking for other food?

[charles p]

It sure wouldn't help your situation.  During much of the season in NC, deer become territorial.  Wildlife people say they do not move very far at all.  In the north where you get a lot of snow, that may be different.  I've heard of yarding behavior - which I assume is mostly after the season closes.

[Mohawk]

  Trust me, deer will never turn down adequate natrual food for corn feeders. We feed deer corn and sweet feed all year long and every year when the acorn crop falls from the oak trees and we have enough rain to grow natural browse, the corn is all but ignored and we see very few deer. In very wet years we have had corn stalks begin to grow, because the corn on the ground was never eaten and soak into the soil over a period of months. I guess my point is, the corn is only as effective as the amount of natural food available. More natural food, less impact corn has.

[Thunderpaw]

Here's an idea, how about every hunter out there feeds "their" deer herd corn from automatic feeders on their food plots. Along with antler king, c'mere deer, and any other commercial deer feed that promotes unnatural antler growth. Only shoot the most massive buck and disregard all the other deer they are feeding, and be absolutely sure to score this harvested deer and tell everybody how well it "scored". Then we can argue with the neighbor how his 160 class eight point is less than my 170 class ten point. Then we can also brag about are superior hunting skills, all the while forgeting what hunting actually means. Yes, I believe we manipulate the natural resource we know as the white tailed deer and "grow" these animals so everybody who can afford it can "harvest" a once in a lifetime buck every year, but only as long as it scores well enough.

Call it what you will but managing a wild animal is an idea thrust upon us by the people looking to make money off of us. We are the ones who buy land and invest in all the latest and greatest gear and gadgets. We have bought into this idea that everybody can get a trophy deer all the time and if we don't we haven't spent enough of our own resources. This management has turned hunting into harvesting and a competition with our neighbors that leads to less oppurtunity for others to enjoy the hunting experience. The prevailing attitude now is if I can't get a big deer I would rather see nobody get a big deer.

 I would like to think we are all part of a brotherhood that respects the animal that we take the life of, regardless of the "score". I find it almost appalling that we grow these deer to kill them just for a number. I have even found hunting pigs, bear, bobcat, and any other less than mainstream species more enjoyable than deer because it is a more true hunting experience. Get rid of the score and you gain so much more appreciation of the experience instead of the outcome.

[Mohawk]

  I would personally consider more than supplemental feeding to be the cause of a buck not getting very big. Corn is a major deer food in states like Nebraska and Iowa and they have no problem with getting big. You have to consider age as a factor also not to mention that there are multiple sub-species of whitetails, some don't get near as big as others. And persons hunting off of "feeders" are not looking for a big buck to come in and start feeding. Feed brings in does. Does bring in bucks. No different than hunting between a bedding area and a food crop in places where "feeding" is not allowed. Will automatic feeders pull deer from a property that does not feed? Not likely. Deer will finish a normal feeding in about 20 minutes max. That gives them over 23 hours a day to be somewhere else. Deer need to constantly eat to keep their digestive system motile and in order, much like rabbits. In addition, I have watched deer for around 27 years walk on by automatic feeders to obtain natural browse. And if anyone thinks that deer turn domestic and lose their instincts because someone threw corn on the ground is sorely mistaken. One twitch or changing wind and you will never see the deer. The deer will be sprinting through the woods snorting all the way. I live and hunt in the highest deer population area in all of North America and hunt over feeders, use cover scent, camo, and use modern equipment. Started hunting Oct 3rd and didn't kill the first deer of the season with a crossbown until on Oct 24th. Trust me, it is still a challenge.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

 ;)T Thunderpaw, You are right on the mark as far as "quality" or "trophy" hunting goes. This is especially true of the whitetail market... I have seen deer hunting in Pa. go from a highly enjoyable sport, where all were welcome to hunt and the size of the deer of little importance, to the situation today. Posted land, houses built in trees, clubs that control thousands of miles of country, points restrictions, all of which add up to destroying the sport... Pa. ALWAYS had big bucks, but they had hundreds of little bucks too. Honestly, I would rather hunt turkey there than bother with deer season. Fortunately, I live somewhere else now, and whitetails are not king. All you have to do is watch the TV "HUNTING" show where some one kills a baited buck with a bow or rifle and the has the guts to say, man that was a difficult hunt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No wonder hunting is under attack by non hunters....   

[mirage1988]

Hunting is under attack from every angle- we don't need attacks like that from  others that call themselves hunters. A "hunt" is as different to each hunter as there are methods and variables to each hunt. The main thing is is that we are HUNTING, not looking in a butcher window. There will always be differences in methods, stickbows vs. recurves, recurves vs. compounds, compounds vs. crossbows, flintlocks vs. caplocks, caplocks vs. inlines, in-lines vs. centerfires. Single-shot vs. bolt-action, bolt vs. pump, pump vs. autoloader.

Hunting is hunting to all of us, regardless of where we live and what we carry!

[Thunderpaw]

I agree with the fact everybody and every hunt is different and that is my point. Instead of everybody managing their deer herd and thus having the same experience....feed, sit, wait, shoot, score, take pictures, repeat.... why not actually pursue a wild animal. I have no problem with the manner of take of an animal, in fact I encourage technology and the use of the best possible tools (bows, firearms, cameras) to effectively harvest game. My issue is with the manipulation of the deer herd by some of our fellow hunters. I believe by feeding and "managing" deer we unnecessarily alter the natural order of these animals. This is done to tip the scales in our favor to harvest what we want i.e. big antlers. Please tell me the difference between managing a deer herd for trophy antlers and managing a dairy herd for more milk production or a feedlot filling out steers for steaks. The difference I am trying to point out is deer are wild and as such we should treat them as wild and not try to domesticate them for our need to compete with each other. I feel there is a greater reward to taking an animal in his environment and not manipulating them to suit us. The trophy should be the memory of the pursuit not the score.

[jhm]

Hunting over a feeder isnt any different than hunting on the edge of a corn field, been field, APPLE orchard, it is just another way to attract deer into your area, then the rest is up to you, and how many run to the OAKs when the acorn start falling the same as being at the feeder when the corn starts throwing, just because you dont use a feeder dont belittle the neighbor who does, I would rather see someone doing that than cruising the roads with a spot light!!!   Jim

[Dave in WV]

I feeding game is legal where you hunt it's your choice whether to or not. Most folks here take their feeders out before the firearm deer season starts because the deer hit the area and then leave.

[Thunderpaw]

There is a difference. Bean fields, corn fields, and apple orchards are agriculture, intended for supplying humans or cattle food. Deer happen to use these but supplying food for the sole purpose of manipulating the deer is, in my opinion, not hunting. It is the same as feeding cattle - domestication. I will give credit to those who put the time into their food plots/feeders and grow big, beautiful bucks. This I am sure takes alot of time and effort. To me that big, home fed, deer is the same as a prize bull.

To each their own. However you derive your satisfaction from the white tail is up to the individual. We have the right to do what we want in this great country and I hope that never changes.

[Mohawk]

  Awe! The great "Bait Debate". The minute a hunter erects a stand over a bean field, the bean field became the sole purpose of the hunter to use the beans as bait. Any other reason is just to make someone's conscience feel better. My grandfather, and many other soybean farmers, budget deer season into their annual budget because they know they have prime land for deer hunters to lease. Meaning, he grew soybeans for humans, livestock, and deer hunters. How a deer herd is "manipulated" I don't understand the context in which it's being used. A person feeding 5 lbs of corn a day does not make deer leave an adjacent property. Just what ever you do, don't use bait while fishing because it will make fish move closer to your boat instead of the person fishing with bare hooks.....
  I mean really. Hunters use high powered rifles, bows, crossbows, large caliber magnum revolvers. Does NOT baiting REALLY put the deer on a equal playing field? A person can hunt over the best bait in the world but if the hunter doesn't remember scent control, proper camo, and related hunting skills, not to mention marksmanship, he WILL come home empty handed and want their money back because they thought a feeder meant a guaranteed kill. I've had to tell several hunters in the past "NO REFUND". I tried to warn them before I put them on the stand. One guy even smoked a cigar and thought it was OK, because "Texas deer are supposed to be easy".

[live2hunt]

I didn't start this thread to stir up a debate about "growing" deer. In this state, hunting over feeders and food plots IS NOT legal. The question I asked was could this damage the deer herd, especially so close to winter?

[mirage1988]

The biologists recommend not feeding deer because CWD can be spread through saliva like when deer are nose to nose at a feeder. I don't see that being the case at a food plot. I agree with you thunderpaw as TV hunting shows have become too much about antler score and not enough about what hunting really is. Just once I would love to see a hunter on tv take a knee and thank the father for the bounty he just received instead of admiring the horns. Fortunately most hunters aren't like the hunters on the tv shows.

[Mt_Sourdough]

I am glad that I live in Montana!!!  Feeding and/or baiting deer in Montana is ILLEGAL!!!  Some still do it here and I hope they get their butt in a sling.  Man, I love Mule deer and Elk.
  Grain fed whitetails are sure tasty though.

[Dave in WV]

As posted, CWD can be spread if using a feeder where the der are nose to nose or eat out of the same place like a PVC feeder. Can a feeder damage hunting. Sure. The deer show for feeding time and then hide. Feeders also help keep deer around an area if the food is scarce. If feeding deer don't use feed with animal protein in it. Deer are not meant to eat foor with animal products in it. CWD is linked to game farms where high protein feed is used to get bigger animals. WV has CWD in the area where the two deer farms are. Go figure. Of course the farmers say hunters cause it because their property is fenced.

[Mohawk]

Don't let the idea that if someone baits deer they are horrible wildlife stewards. In Texas, baiting in LEGAL on private property(97% of the State), have a 3 1/2 MONTH season, 3-5 deer limit, bucks and does depending on county(ALL over the counter), and have the largest whitetail deer population, per acreage, than any other place in the world. Been this way through many decades, including the CWD stuff. Don't know where the logic came that if you fed deer it was changing the deer herd. Unless you're sitting in a open field in the only tree around with a big spear in your hand to plunge into the deer that will probably never walk underneath you, then you are using some sort of advantage to take your game.

[mirage1988]

I don't think the herd is damaged by feeding as much as it is that their patterns change. They are opportunistic feeders, if someone is putting out apples, corn, or pumpkins, they will eat that as long as it is there. In states like minnesota that have a high hunter to deer ratio, it is illegal to bait. I think that is a fair law because a lot of the hunting here is done on relatively small tracts of private land with state forest land mixed in. It sounds like texas has a much lower hunter to deer ratio if they have such liberal game laws there.

[live2hunt]

In states like minnesota that have a high hunter to deer ratio, it is illegal to bait. I think that is a fair law because a lot of the hunting here is done on relatively small tracts of private land with state forest land mixed in.

Maine is the same way, and I belive it is fair also.

Don't let the idea that if someone baits deer they are horrible wildlife stewards. In Texas, baiting in LEGAL on private property(97% of the State), have a 3 1/2 MONTH season, 3-5 deer limit, bucks and does depending on county(ALL over the counter), and have the largest whitetail deer population, per acreage, than any other place in the world. Been this way through many decades, including the CWD stuff. Don't know where the logic came that if you fed deer it was changing the deer herd. Unless you're sitting in a open field in the only tree around with a big spear in your hand to plunge into the deer that will probably never walk underneath you, then you are using some sort of advantage to take your game.

I don't know if you're some kind of expert, but Maine is a ways from Texas, and here, IT FRIGGIN' SNOWS!
Our season is one month for regular firearm, and can only take one deer. So I'm sure your hunting is great down there, but to be honest, I don't give a rip about hunting and baiting in Texas, because the entire climate, deer count and terain are completely different.
















 

[Mohawk]

  Very different and supplemental feeding is not a factor. And what am I supposed to be the "expert" on? Deer hunting the same stand for half my life. Yes, I am the expert on that.

[Dillohide]

Doubt supplemental feeding has any effect on the deer herd other than maybe helping a little.