Taurus outlawed in IHMSA?

[Bluedog]

I had to go back and re-read the rule changes for 2004, because I misread it the first time.

Please correct me if I am wrong but it looks like IHMSA has outlawed the Raging Bull series of handguns.

I really didn't expect them to move into the 21st century by allowing actual production, inexpensive, untouched handguns in the "production" class, but they could have at least moved into the 20th century.

What happened? Did some poor kid with a $400 import outshoot a crothety old geezer with a $5,000 custom job? Or was there some kind of payoff going on behind the scenes?

I mean, outlawing porting on a revolver? Might as well outlaw revolvers altogether if blast effect is a safety concern.

Why am I not surprised?

[braud357]

Actually - porting has been illegal for Production class for awhile. You can shoot the ported guns in Unlimited class. And besides, Taurus did a lot of research in bringing out their "Silhouette" model revolvers with 12" barrel - also illegal for Production class. But, in closing, I agree with you. we should not exclude a reasonably priced, entry-level revolver - ported or otherwise. -- Philip Braud

[Bluedog]

Yes, I am aware of the porting restriction in production. I shoot against myself, as a supplement to my handgun hunting skills, so I always shoot standing, open sight, in unlimited classes. I am not always the lowest scoring there either, although I generally get a thiord or less of the targets.

But the rule change now outlaws anything under 12" with porting except for 22s. The new Smith and Wesson is also outlawed. All the old Raging Bull series are outlawed. Many fine Rugers with barrel porting are now outlawed. Custom ported Dan Wesson barrels are outlawed.

The reason cited was safety, which is comiocal. The blast from the cylinder gap is far greater than that from the porting, and the porting itself makes the firearm much safer by making it more controllable and easier on the shooter, and enabling it to stay pointed downrange much easier.

The IHMSA leadership preaches grass-roots support, and then pulls the rug from under us. They are killing this pathetic little sport, and have no one but themselves to blame. Of course, they'll cry and moan that the lowly members are the real problem, and while many are lazy and worthless, there are still some who put a lot into it in the form of time and donation. But the leadership itself needs to do everyone a favor and leave.

[IHMSAeditor]

Quoting Bluedog, "But the leadership itself needs to do everyone a favor and leave."

Three points.

First, the Secretary/Treasurer position is up for election in 2004.  Feel free to run if you wish a change in leadership.

Second, the rule proposal was posted in the June issue of the IHMSA News.  If you were against it, did you contact your region director and express your dissatisfaction?

Finally, you have every right to submit a rule change to allow porting.  Feel free to do so.

Steve Ware

[Bluedog]

Touchy touchy touchy.

Who would have thought that those considering the rule changes would even consider such a meritless proposal...that a ported revolver somehow presents more danger than an unported revolver.

As for having the opportunity to protest, I found out after the fact. I had to stop my season short due to a health problem, and read the last three newspapers afterwards. I had more pressing concerns than something that seemed like a trivial waste of the rule committee's time. Something that I thought as laughable and only meant to discourage adoption of a broader rule change (production porting aloowed in production). To outlaw a lawful product that poeople have been using safely for years, well, such knee-jerk non-logic is what the ranks of the anti-gunners are made of, so you can see my bewilderment.

In fact, the claim was so trivial that I have to wonde if safety were really any part of the consideration. I have my doubts, which I am entitled to. And will post as my opinion.

I was initially dumbfounded, then teetered on whether or not to renew. But your elitist, suspect attitude seals the deal; the effort I previously put into trying to help a match stay alive, spending the better part of the weekend on the road, spending money on everything from meals to fuel to target-setting bikes, sleeping in the rat-infested range shack just so I could be there to set up in the morning, and staying until teardown before the long drive home, defying my doctor's orders, rounding up those who couldn't afford to make it, all that effort was in vain. I will now be putting that effort into discouraging new members from being involved; I will be discouraging a local private range from considering IHMSA competition as a use for the 300m area inthe off season. I will make sure that manufacturers who are affected know that they have been essentially pushed halfway out the door for no good reason, and make it known to all that support for IHMSA means nothing to future sales from me.

Yeah, I should have known better when a bunch of lazy old men chastised me for turning the targets in a direction they didn't like, never mind that I worked my butt off to keep the targets set. I should have known better when a member of another club sent out a vain and not-so-private email and insulted myself and the work of other volunteers, and was then elevated to a noteworthy position in the newsletter. I should have known better when half the pages in the newsletter became criticism that somehow, we weren't doing enough to keep the sport alive.

Yeah, go ahead and throw the blame on the membership. The ones who sacrificed for the sport. You guys are a real class act. And I'll be pointing that out regularly.

[IHMSAeditor]

Quoting Bluedog, "You guys are a real class act. And I'll be pointing that out regularly."

Please do not lump me in with "you guys".  I am just a member.  I am not now nor have I ever been on the board.  I do not now nor have I ever had any involvement in the decisions made by the board other than using my right as a member to submit both rule and bylaw changes.

Like you, I was expressing my personal opinion.

Sorry it upset you.

Steve Ware

[Billy Marr]

I have to agree with bulldog on this one. Why becuase I have watched to many younger shooters leave becusae the grumpy old men on the range did not like either the looks or my favorite one the gun is too loud. Hell it is a controlled explosion not a qeef. Hell I have shot with bulldog hell I road with him and helped at the matches and slept in the same rat infested shack.  Yeah that Raging Bull is loud but dangerous no not unless you are going to taco hold the porting then you need to lose your hand. I for one am a stickler for safety on the range but this rule is plain dumb. Second before you tell me to take up running for office. no thanks I have met a bunch of the leadership past and present all but three have one thing in common arogance. what IHMSA does not realize is that the general population is what keeps the organiztion alive. Whit out the ability to keep new blood the sport is dead.
Hell I have read the book  and talked to the guys  at the first internationals yea they were a gung ho bunch remember when the 308 win was the only thing to take down rams. Heck I was shooting when the new rule came out and  you know why the soft set ram rule came about. That way some one could shoot some punk ass round that would not hurt there arm. Probably the same guy that sprained his wrist spanking the monkey.

[Bluedog]

LOL!

Speaking of which, how's your wrist?

[K2]

Hi Billy and Bluedog

Just so you fellows know the Rules Committee has no vote.  We are advisory only and the Board more often than not ignors our opinion and in the case of the aftermarket sights on AIR Production guns did not seek our opinion period.   You undoubtably saw my letters to the editor regarding this.

Steve is one of the good guys so don't beat up on him.  

My read on setting the Big Bore Rams lighter was to keep the IHMSA from getting sued for causing an accident when a revolver blew apart due to overloading to knock down a ram.   Bluedog has told of a range where 325gr. bullets going 1440 fps do not take a ram.  They have a problem that should be fixed more than likely unlevel rails or twisted animals.  There is a big difference between shooting a .308 hunting gun 1 to 5 times on a hunt and shooting the same load 80 to 120 times at a match.  That will ruin your joints over time.  It can be done for awhile but in the end the body will give out.  Probably the same reason you don't see 40 year old bullriders much ;~)

If an animal is facing the "wrong" direction just tell the shooter he can either shoot at it or just take the "O" if he doesn't want to.  Sometimes I hear the same thing when I change my auto resets from left to right, I just smile and say the surface area is the same whether they face right or left.  Both of you guys are suffering from volunteer burnout.  Relax and just shoot and let those who complain do the set up and target setting for awhile, they will soon quiet down;~)

If it isn't fun don't do it.  Also Silhouette is bigger than any single association, and will always be around.  I will see to that in my area and I bet you will too in yours. Plinking steel has been fun long before the first ram was cut out of a T-1 sheet.

[IHMSAeditor]

While the board's decision reference ported barrels may or may not have been an error in judgement on their part, that change does not become effective until 1-1-04.  Thus, you do have time (if you act quickly) to attempt a reversal.

In my humble opinion, the one rule that was approved by the board that is much more damaging than ported revolvers is the approval of the "aftermarket sight" rule for Production Air Pistols.  There are 50 AIR entries to 1 ported revolver entry.  Thus far more people are impacted negatively.

Your home state of TX is a big supporter of AIR.  The aftermarket rule wil impact each of those fine shooters.

Consider this.  Only 1 person (note I said person, not company) makes an aftermarket sight for the Daisy 747, the most popular Production air pistol we have.

AIR was a place where there was no equipment race in Production, and most anyone could shoot it for a maximum cost of $140 for a Mike Stimson tuned 747 or $40 for a Crosman 1377.

Unless this rule is reversed, Production AIR will be as messed up as Big Bore & Small Bore Production.  (& yes, I am working with my elected representatives in an attempt to get the board to overturn their approval.)  Hopefully this will happen and it will go to a vote of the full membership just as the Big Bore & Small Bore aftermarket rule change did.

Steve

[Bluedog]

I've been stewing over this for two days now, and my little pea-brain is probably cooked to the bone. Needlessly.

Steve said some things that struck me wrong, and it has way more to do with the way I read them than the way they were meant. You have my apology steve, because lord knows you have spent, and will spend, considerable time assisting the organization for nothing but thanks, and probably little of that.

#1: I was a little busy volunteering time and money over the last year to help keep a match alive to bother with trying for some kind of board position. Personal circumstance has kept me away from just about everything over the last few months, in fact. Billy can sympathize, I know. I apologize to all those whose contributions make mine look like a drop in the bucket. Ike and Jackie are good examples. I'm sorry.

#2: I have no one but myself to blame for not staying on top of things, and assuming that something I thought trivial would be seen in the same light by everyone. The whole thing caught me by surprise, really, and I just felt like it was a huge slap in the face. It was, but only because I took some things for granted. For that, I apologize to everyone in IHMSA who has worked as hard, and often much much harder, than I have to keep things going. I'm a little fish in a big sea of volunteers. I'm sorry.

#3: I held onto the dream of joining IHMSA from the first time I saw a shoot back in the early 80s. It was also the first time I got to fire a really big bore, a 454 Casull. They were new at the time, and I just knew someone would eventually make a modern wheelgun in that caliber someday, and that I would own one. The closest I ever came for the longest time was a $20 used Uberti 45 colt that had the grips duct-taped on. By the time I could afford to get back into hunting and the shooting sports, Ruger and Taurus had answered the call, and were even offering these modern designs in newer, bigger calibers worthy of the technology. My IHMSA membership commenced shortly after I bought the big ugly hogleg. Here's where I owe an apology for ridiculing the single-shot crowd, the high-dollar competitors and the "serious" IHMSA folk. I always saw it as an extension of handgun hunting, and owe an apology to those I sneered at for not seeing things the way I did. It isn't "my" sport, it is everyone's. I'm sorry.

#4: I have characterized the whole of sillhouette shooters as being like the few bad apples that we all have to deal with in any activity. I owe a big apology to the members who go about their business with nary a whimper, who volunteer their time, who always wear a smile even when the turkeys are hiding behind the berms, and who just generally make up for the turds of the world. I'm sorry. I just got tired of it. Billy knows where I'm coming from here, too.

#5: I owe an apology to GBO members for using this forum as my litterbox. I generally just lurk, and post so seldom I can't even remeber my other screen name and password. This is a place where we can bitch and moan, but constructively. Those who've been insulted by my rant, or just wasted time reading to this point, I'm sorry.

I have no right to badmouth the sport or the organization, but I'm through. I'm tired, I'm disappointed, I'm disillusioned and I'm through. I had some plans that could have been the start of a state-of-the-art range in the DFW area, but I'll leave that to someone else. I'll put in a good word for the sport in general, but I'm not interested in being part of it.The action-style shooting sports like IDPA and CAS are growing like wildfire, because they have youth on their side. Silhouette needs to harness that same momentum. I had numerous ideas, but was scoffed at at every turn whenever I brought any of them up, so its not something I want to remain a part of. Too much stress and not enough fun. This latest headache, however foolish I have acted in it, is still evidence of a major problem in a sport that is fast becoming an anachronism.

Good luck, you are all going to need it. Me, I'll go back to drag racing and hog hunting. Its a lot less stressful.
-SB

[K2]

Hi Bluedog

One of the perils of over volunteering is burnout.  It happens and I understand your frustration.  I was pretty P.Oed when aftermarket sights were voted in without even running it by me and I spent 3 years sheparding this new AIR game along.  I will not give up and time and reasoning seems to be turning the tide to keeping AIR Production simple.  

Many people are looking for a simple entry point where they can just go out and buy an over the counter Daisy or Crosman and compete on more or less equal footing.  

As for getting young folks involved I have a plan for that as well and keep and eye out for my article in the IHMSA News.  We despirately need a viable Jr. Program that will attract both youth and there families to the sport.  It can be done and will be done.  If the IHMSA doesn't approve it I will make it happen thru other means, but Silhouette will have a jr. program very soon.  

Dealing with buttheads at a match is fairly easy.  Go to the match director and tell him to get the shooters in line or your volunteer efforts are history.  I have had to talk to a few shooters at some of my matches to keep their disappointments to themselves.  The majority of the IHMSA are good folks, but we as any other association have some members we would be better off without.  Take some time off and maybe find another match to shoot at.  Shooting is fun if we let it be ;~)

P.S. Steve has a pretty tough hide and a heart of gold ;~)

[IHMSAeditor]

Bluedog,  No one is counting volunteer hours or who does what.  You are one of the 2% of those that do.  Consider that when we loose one of the "good guys", we are all diminished.

Take a break if needs be, but I do hope to see you on the range somewhere.  Hell, come shoot the West Coast Championship June 15-19, 2004.  We have target setters, and you can be just a shooter.

BTW, the new rule makes my Ruger Stalker built by Larry Kelly at Magna-Port illegal also.   :grin:

Steve