New Encore Accuracy

[stxhunter]

I will most likely get my brains bashed out for asking but here goes. If I get 3/4 in. groups, as an average, at 50 yards will that translate to 1 1/2 groups at 100 yards. Is that about all a person might expect from low end factory ammo or might my Encore need more tuneing? I could use some help on this one!

[Luckyducker]

Theoretically, if you shoot .75" at 50yds you should shoot 1.5" at 100yds.  I have a friend that loads his own ammo and was shooting cast bullets through a Marlin lever gun, and at 50yds he was showing decent groups but at 100yds I am not sure he was even hitting the inside the target frame.  The micro-groove rifling just wouldn't stabilize cast bullets at the longer range.  If you want to see what your rifle will do at longer range shoot it at longer range.  I don't know what your shooting abilities are, and therefore your Encore might be able to outshoot you.  I don't shoot factory loaded ammo through any center-fire metallic cartridge firearm I own and don't have a comment on it. 

[David D.]

I will most likely get my brains bashed out for asking but here goes. If I get 3/4 in. groups, as an average, at 50 yards will that translate to 1 1/2 groups at 100 yards. Is that about all a person might expect from low end factory ammo or might my Encore need more tuneing? I could use some help on this one!

First question, not necessarily! Most rifle scopes with a set parallax are set at 100 yds.  So shooting at 50yds this can come into play. I have seen rifles that will shoot tighter groups at 100 than 50 yds.

Second question, most rifles will prefer one brand ammo over another. Try different brands and bullet weights that are acceptable to your hunting application.

Depending on the cal. (which in your post you didnt mention) I would think you should be able to find factory ammo that will shoot under 1-1/2" groups at 100 yds.

[Grumulkin]

The cartridge this question relates to is quite important.  Straight walled handgun cartridges like the 44 Magnum will likely shoot a lot better at 50 yards than at 100 yards.  If it's a bottle necked rifle cartridge in an Encore rifle; well all the ones I've had would do an inch or less at 100 yards with the exception of a 375 H&H Mag. I had that I got about 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards with.

I have generally gotten better results with handloads than with factory ammo.  The 375 H&H Mag. though did just as well with Federal factory stuff as with what I cooked up.

[Davemuzz]

You also mentioned "more tuning." So.....exactly what tuning to your Encore have you already done?

[stxhunter]

Thanks for the replies.
cal. 308win.
barrel, new 20in heavy MGM
Encore action with a trigger job, 2/12 to 3 lbs
oversize hinge pin for a tight fit
spacers on forend
As I said before, I have shot 3 different low end ammos in this gun with 150 grain weight. Might one of my problems be the new barrel needs more rounds put through it? I first thought I might have a forend issue because my 3 shot strings were going higher each shot. I checked my spacing and it seemed good. same vertical strings. Then I loosend the forend and got a few good groups. retightend the forend and got rid of the vertical problem but the groups never got any better than where I am now. I have read a few cases of others haveing a real picky barrel when it came to forend fastening. They ended up going to a hanger bar or epoxy bedding. This thing is getting under my skin a little and I feel like it is something simple!

[Davemuzz]

What type of material are your forend spacers made of? I ask that because I have found that metal seems to make the best spacers. Any type of material such as rubber or vinyl that has a "give" to it will have a tendency to change the tension of the forend. Weather changes hot\cold rain\snow\dry will change the torque settings of anything other than a metal spacer.

The oversize pin is a personal thing. I've never found a need for one.

Dave

[stxhunter]

I used plastic from a shotgun hull. I was thinking about pillar bedding or a hanger bar setup. any thoughts?

[Hopalong7]

      I've had good results with shotshell material, rubber washers,...etc.  I assume you're shooting off a good rest....sand bags, etc.  Where are you placing the rest.   With the Encore(or most any break action) it usually shoots best with a consistant rest immediately in front of the trigger guard.   I know it holds a little easier with the rest further forward and I often catch myself pulling back on the rifle, but accuracy is almost always best with that trigger guard right up against the bag.

[Silvertp]

Me thinks your problem is developing a concern about your accuracy without trying some better quality ammo.  The ultimate tuning of course is "rolling your own" ammo. 

I very much doubt that a .308 heavy MGM barrel is your weak link in getting good 100 yard groups.  Sounds like you have done a few smart basics on your rifle.

First:  Try a few more brands and bullet weights known for accuracy and see if your results improve.  Suggest you find an ammo that shows more promise before doing a lot more tuning. 

Second:  How about your sights?  Quality here can make a difference in the long run.  The last new varmit rifle I bought disappointed me with 1 1/2 inch groups, at least till I replaced the scope with a Leupold, after which 1/2 in was the norm.

I'm sure you will see improvement...just gotta keep looking for "what works".

Silvertp

 

[Grumulkin]

I guess I have been blissfully unaware of the pickiness of attaching Encore forends.  I have never used spacers, pillar bedding, hanger bars, etc. in attaching Encore or Contender forends.  I would say as the above poster mentioned:

1.  Try handloads or at least some different factory loads.

2.  Consider the scope as your possible weak link.  I've found this to be the problem on several occasions.  I can see no reason a forend would cause vertical or horizontal stringing but a scope or scope mount problem certainly could.

[stxhunter]

This gun is scoped with a Leupold vari X 2 3x9 in burris Z rings. I will try better ammo. I know it makes sense to spend more on ammo since I spent so much on the gun but I am still lured by the cheaper ammo prices. Guess this might teach me a lesson!  lol That is a hell of a group from that 300 win by the way. Not sure I can shoot that good anymore.

[yooper77]

You need to shoot at 100 yards in order to get the accuracy reading.

I sight in at 25, 50 100, 200 & 300 yards, in order to know what my firearm is capable of, along testing my own ability.  I don’t use any after market gadgets, and I easily achieve sub MOA off the bench in my set ups in 223 Remington, 243 Winchester and 7mm-08 Remington 24 “ rifle barrels.

I have a standard factory unmodified blue Encore with a crisp trigger, synthetic stock and forend, Leupold Dual Dovetailed base and rings and 223 Remington wears a 2-10x38 V10 Weaver scope and 243 Winchester & 7mm-08 Remington wears VX-II & Vari-X II 3-9x40 Leupold scopes respectively.

The best thing to do after you know your equipment is sighted in, forget the bench and shoot under real hunting situations.  Prone, semi-prone, standing, kneeling, over barricade.  Doing this, you will quickly see that your sub-MOA rifle, will not deliver that same performance unless you do your part.

Oh yea, all my handloads, I don’t buy any factory centerfire rifle or pistol ammo.

yooper77

[Davemuzz]

Change your spacers to metal. don't use any type of spacer that is made from plastic, rubber or a material that will give when you tighten it. (Yes....I know metal has give. Let's not get all technical here)

Dave

[stubshaft]

U use the Stratton hanger bar.  I allows me to change forends from gun to gun with no change in POI.  It also gives me better accuracy in the barrels I use vs. pillars or spacers.