Taurus and non approved ammo

[Dino]

Ok this is a good one; my tracker total titanium is off to the scrap pile do to shooting non approved ammo. I was shooting Fiocchi 158 JSP and they flame cut groves in the cylinder and frame to the point that a smith said he wouldn’t recommend shooting it. When I call Taurus they told me that it wasn’t covered under warranty do to non approved ammo. He also told me that if I had shot 125 grain bullets it would also flame cut and then would not be covered. My GP-100 chews up these bullets all day and still looks new and it’ stainless steel…I guess titanium isn’t as indestructible as I been lead to believe, or at lest the stuff from Taurus isn’t
Sorry to all the Taurus loves out there for bashing your brand but I needed to blow of some steam.
I will never own a Taurus again!     

[Graybeard]

So if neither 125 nor 158 grain bullets are "approved" then what the hell is?

Taurus has become a joke really. They put out a piss poor product that is seldom right when you get it then refuse to back it no matter what goes wrong or was wrong when you got it new. What really needs to happen is all the owners who have been screwed over by Taurus should get together and file a class action law suit against them. Sure the lawyers will get most of the money but hopefully it will cause them to go under and then at least they will stop selling their junk to unsuspecting buyers.

[Dino]

The way they explained it to me is 125 gain and under will cause flame cutting; 158 grain are ok to use but Fiocchi Ammo is not a approved ammo in any weight and voids their life time warranty. Better Read your manual before you shove it the gun! Or as the customer service person told me;” all the approved ammo for their guns is listed on the saami site. Silly me shooting off the self ammo!

[rawhidekid]

In all fairness, Taurus isn't the only company playing that game.  A kid with a H&K 45ACP carbine stuck a Sellior & Bellot round in his barrel and followed it with the rest of the mag.  H&K said the same thing, thier owners manual states no military surplus or foriegn ammunition.

[Ak.Hiker]

I wonder why a foriegn company would have a problem when you fire foriegn ammo in their guns? Just for fun I went to the Fiocchi website. They have links to many major companies like Beretta and SAAMI. I clicked on the SAAMI site and clicked on member companies and low and behold I see Fiocchi is a SAAMI member. If Taurus is making handguns that can not handle SAAMI spec ammo of the proper caliber and the most common bullet weight what good are they? I own one Taurus and it has been a good handgun. It is the model 44. It looks like I will not be buying another gun from them in future. Customer service should be the number one priority of any company. Part of providing shareholder value is return customers. I purchased two new cars from a local Chrysler dealer. One in 1973 and the second in 1980. I had a problem with 1980 Dodge and was told by the service manager " what do you expect a Rolls Royce". No problem for me, it was the last new car I purchased from them. The Toyota and Mazda dealers in town ended up with my business after that.   

[rawhidekid]

H&K USA was who was contacted by the owner.  I just bought a PT1911-38 Super from Taurus.  The owners manual was all PT1911 45 ACP.  It specified bullet weight and velocity the gun was desighned for.  I called customer service, was answered right a way.  Explained my situation and asked for the 38 Super data.  Was told 130 grn bullet, ask velocity and was told "standard".   Have you noticed they advertise 9+1 or 11+1 on the adds, then tell you in the owners manual: "never carry with round in the chamber"?  How else are you to get the +1?

[dla]

Ok this is a good one; my tracker total titanium is off to the scrap pile do to shooting non approved ammo. I was shooting Fiocchi 158 JSP and they flame cut groves in the cylinder and frame to the point that a smith said he wouldn’t recommend shooting it. When I call Taurus they told me that it wasn’t covered under warranty do to non approved ammo. He also told me that if I had shot 125 grain bullets it would also flame cut and then would not be covered. My GP-100 chews up these bullets all day and still looks new and it’ stainless steel…I guess titanium isn’t as indestructible as I been lead to believe, or at lest the stuff from Taurus isn’t
Sorry to all the Taurus loves out there for bashing your brand but I needed to blow of some steam.
I will never own a Taurus again!     

So give us the whole story. Not just the "I'm pissed at Taurus" part. How about some pictures, round counts, when you first noticed the cutting, when you first contacted Taurus, etc.

There's always more to a story and I think we deserve more on this one.

[Dino]

No photos: 14 rounds! Called taurus the next day....end of story! I read all the negative posts and thought this is a bunch of BS from a couple of guys that had had a bad gun; happens to all the makers. Now I'm one of the guys!
I don’t care if everyone goes out and gets a tracker total titanium or any taurus gun, If you do good luck. Sounds like there are a lot of guys that love them and good for them. I'm thinking of getting a Dan Wesson 10mm as a replacement and it also might end up a piece of you know what but that’s the way it goes....I do think that they would rectify the problem unlike Taurus!

[rawhidekid]

You might want to think twice before getting a Dan Wesson.  They were bought out by CZ and nothing has been heard from them since.  Pick a EAA or S&W, something that is currently in production and you have a better chance of customer support.JMHO   Good luck and good shooting.

[Dino]

Looks like CZ USA still makes the Dan Wesson’s (Made in New York?) Has 5 year warranty.
I'm sill on the hunt for a new gun so I might find a Kimber that needs a home or who knows. I do want a 10mm so if "n" a deer would put it's self at 25 yard  I might take it and yes it's legal in my state, but thanks for the information.

[dla]

No photos: 14 rounds! Called taurus the next day....end of story! I read all the negative posts and thought this is a bunch of BS from a couple of guys that had had a bad gun; happens to all the makers. Now I'm one of the guys!
I don’t care if everyone goes out and gets a tracker total titanium or any taurus gun, If you do good luck. Sounds like there are a lot of guys that love them and good for them. I'm thinking of getting a Dan Wesson 10mm as a replacement and it also might end up a piece of you know what but that’s the way it goes....I do think that they would rectify the problem unlike Taurus!

14 rounds?? REALLY?

I find it hard to believe that the pistol was destroyed after 14 rounds of factory ammo. Very hard. Incredibly hard.

[Dino]

What do I benefit from not telling you what really happened?
I've said over and over Buy them I don’t care! Taurus won’t help me and I thought it might help another with the same gun to watch the ammo they use!
I'll go with the old saying you get what you pay for!
Have your Taurus; Good for you!

[dla]

What do I benefit from not telling you what really happened?

I don't know, maybe not getting your ego bruised?

Look, I hate to play Captain Obvious here, but you

• pop onto the forum, tell us your pistol was trashed after 14rounds of Fiochi factory fodder
• tell us that Taurus won't honor the warranty and that they're total crap

now doesn't that sound like a troll to you?

[Graybeard]

No not at all, just sounds like typical Taurus experience to me. 

[corbanzo]

No photos: 14 rounds! Called taurus the next day....end of story! I read all the negative posts and thought this is a bunch of BS from a couple of guys that had had a bad gun; happens to all the makers. Now I'm one of the guys!
I don’t care if everyone goes out and gets a tracker total titanium or any taurus gun, If you do good luck. Sounds like there are a lot of guys that love them and good for them. I'm thinking of getting a Dan Wesson 10mm as a replacement and it also might end up a piece of you know what but that’s the way it goes....I do think that they would rectify the problem unlike Taurus!

14 rounds, and cut to the point of not safe to fire? 

I'm not gonna say I dont believe you, I'm just going to say I am in total agreement with dla. 

Then I am going to say I disagree with you base on personal experience. 

I own a taurus titanium .44.  I just loaded 200 200 grain bullets over 28 grains of H110.  I had to do this because i ran out of my last lot of the same.  I dont have any cutting.  I just had to load 100 300 grainers over 23 grains of H110 because I ran out of my last lot of the same.  No cutting...  Just loaded up about 300 180 grainers over 23 grains of acurate #9... shot a bunch of those.. no cutting... 

Lots of bang flame and fun though!!


ps... still no cutting...

[Squib]

titanium doesn't take abrasion (especially from hot gases) very well at all.  friction from normal use even shows faster than with steel.  what it DOES offer is the same or greater strength for weapons of the same dimensions with reduced weight, corrosion resistance, flexion of the metal at a molecular level rather than breaking (it's harder to bust them from impact or torque).  you CANNOT expect them to hold up at all once the cylinder face is eroded because the gap just gets bigger everytime you fire a magnum rounds once the initial gap has grown a few thousands.  titanium isn't so easy to just weld up.. so the gun is probably trashed now.  I don't know how any stiff ammo that could do that could be safely fired after the problem started though.... maybe your cylinder missed a heat treatment, didn't get the finish/protective coat to prevent the initial erosion that lets those particular cylinders go (they do go no matter what if the finish is missing, and fast, taurus says that in all the manuals) or maybe it really was just fit terribly... HOW BIG IS THAT CYLINDER GAP???

I've had nothing but good experiences with them so I can't believe it but titanium is really finicky, it's got uses but it ain't stainless steel, i'd like to just blame that but everyone else hates taurus so maybe you're right

did you ever use an abrasive brush on the cylinder face?

[Squib]

one other thing that is a titanium no-no is using light bullets WITH slow-burning powders that are putting a lot of gas out AFTER the bullet has cleared the cylinder gap

sorry, I knew I forgot something.  can you post up a picture of this weapon?

ps have a happy thanksgiving (there's always more guns so don't let that keep you down)

[corbanzo]

I want to see pictures too.  I've put so many smaller bullets in front of lots of h110 and 4227 out of my titanium I just cant imagine.

[Squib]

this is off topic but how is the 4227 treating you corbanzo

[omcforever]

I myself have never been a big fan of 4227 . My powder of choice in the 357 both 125 and 158 bullets has been H110 on top of a CCI mag primer and W231 using cast bullets on top of a CCI reg primer. jmho   Art

[Squib]

I'm a fan of H-110 too (125gr bullets mostly), I've used 231 but with max loads my gun will usually put a tiny hole in the primers.. maybe my pin is too sharp or maybe my particular loads were pressure spiking too fast, either way I'm not a fan of 231 for the .357magnum.... ever had those problems?  speaking of, for all I know that firing pin might be titanium and need replaced or buffed on the tip a bit but it's only an issue with the 231 loads?

or because it's a taurus!  I figured I'd throw that out before someone else got me with it  

[omcforever]

Never had that problem in any of my 357 handguns with 231. But I rarely shoot maxed out loads with 231 anyway,,,

[Squib]

mine is a 608, and I know what you think of them! 

I still wonder what would cause a 14rd erosion though... I'm guessing most rounds don't do what H-110 does, especially from a factory since the charge has to be dead on.  a faster burning conventional pistol powder shouldn't be able to have the gas volume to leak that bad out of a cylinder gap though...

the answers will come with the pictures, and that's soon I hope

lesson learned trust steel!

[omcforever]

Never had any probs with flame cutting(erosion) except on an older SW 29 pre endurance mods model. Shot 24 grains of 110 under a 240 JSP for years. As of now you can just barely see where it has started under the backstrap but not bad at all. But, I have put thousands of rounds thru this gun. No big deal.

[Squib]

I've only been a gun owner for about two years 

the only gun I've held onto a shot a lot was the cz75b that was my 3rd handgun I think... 4,000 through it approximately, still good to go

the most I have through a revolver is about 1,000 but that's 38special... not really an issue with flame cutting a 38 firing saami loads through a stainless steel gun

I've never owned a titanium due to the horror stories about cylinder face erosion

[omcforever]

Never owned a titanium either,,,

[corbanzo]

this is off topic but how is the 4227 treating you corbanzo

4227 is a great powder.  I load it in .44, .45, and .454.  It doesn't quite get your the speed that 110 does, but it still gives you plenty, and my chrono says 4227 is a little more consistant.  I've had a little better accuracy with 4227, but to tell you the truth, I'm almost certain that is because I load 110 hotter, so less control with recoil.  Under similar loads, ive had similar accuracy. 

I dont really know where all these horror stories come from... I clean the cylinder face with a copper brush (oh no!!!)  I shoot small bullets really fast (not that!!!)  sometimes I let it sit dirty (oh you demon!!)  Sometimes I load for night shoots to get maximum flame from both cylinder gap and muzzle (you bastard!!)

Five years still no problems.....

[Squib]

five years of abuse on a titanium corbanzo?

[corbanzo]

Yes sir, a taurus M444ulti-mag, 44magnum.  4" barrel, 28 ounces, titanium cylinder, and no fun to shoot unless you like pain. 

It is my carry gun, light, reliable, painful to shoot.  I have shot it more than it should be shot, and it doesn't care.  The holes in the cylinder face are still as tight as the day I bought it. 

My current hammer load is a 300 cast performance over 23 of h110.  My last hammer was a 320 same make over 22 of the same.... stepped it down because I don't like pain..... that much.

I can shoot max loads out of my RB all day before I would shoot ten 85% loads out of this thing. 

People talk about primer smears.... this gun jumps around so much I should nick name it primer smear.  Almost every round if they are hot enough.   

Neither the top strap, nor the forcing cone, nor the cylinder are showing any wear as of yet. 

Hammer pull is getting a little tight... time to rip it apart and get everything clean and set right...  Gotta have a little tlc after that much punishment.   

That is why I don't own any smith revolvers, because I wouldnt have much left.   

[Squib]

so what's the deal with the lemon that got this thread started?

we're left hanging still (thanks for the titanium info corbanzo)