Author Topic: primed brass (Read 1095 times)

HuntHard · « **on:** October 27, 2009, 05:34:11 AM »

I have some primed 260 brass that I would like to pull the primer and uniform the primer pocket how do I go about getting the primers out when they are live primers?

Sensai · « **Reply #1 on:** October 27, 2009, 05:59:27 AM »

Don't try!!!! If you have an open path behind the primer cup it becomes a projectile, if you don't it's a mini bomb! The best thing is to fire them and then remove the spent primers. I know that's wasting a precious commodity right now, but not as precious as fingers or eyes.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** October 27, 2009, 06:08:34 AM »

This has been discussed many times, go easy on the press handle, wear eye and hearing protection just in case, I've deprimed hundreds of live primers with no problems, never had one pop. I do use a universal decapper tho, then you don't have to do any lubing or change your sizing die setting, Lee's is about $10 and is the best thing since sliced bread since I don't have to run dirty brass thru my sizing dies, deprime before cleaning, clean, then resize.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,116878.msg1098378113.html#msg1098378113

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,129545.msg1098474481.html#msg1098474481

Sensai · « **Reply #3 on:** October 27, 2009, 08:41:43 AM »

I guess that I'm just the unlucky one then, I have a scar on the web between my right thumb and forefinger from depriming 30-06 brass on an RCBS JR press. To this day I don't know how that primer cup made the course changes needed to reach my hand, which was on the press handle, but it had enough energy to go completely through my hand from top to bottom.

Do what you want, but be advised that it's not a safe practice. I'll never do it again, no matter what the price of primers.

At least think of what you're gaining and what you're risking for that gain. Best of luck whatever you decide.

huntswithdogs · « **Reply #4 on:** October 27, 2009, 09:52:25 AM »

If you remove these primers, will they be reusable? If not, I'd load and shoot them, then do the primer pockets.

HWD

skb2706 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 27, 2009, 09:59:01 AM »

Unless you are just planning on some kind of serious long range bench gun action or you like playing with small pieces of brass I wouldn't bother. At least not now that the primers are seated in the brass. Load'em and shoot'em....then do the pockets (something I've seen no benefit in even at some incredibily accurate long range rifles).

Graybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** October 27, 2009, 10:43:18 AM »

Quote from: Sensai on October 27, 2009, 05:59:27 AM

Don't try!!!! If you have an open path behind the primer cup it becomes a projectile, if you don't it's a mini bomb! The best thing is to fire them and then remove the spent primers. I know that's wasting a precious commodity right now, but not as precious as fingers or eyes.

Spoken like a fellow with limited experience. While I'm not recommending YOU do it I've deprimed hundreds perhaps thousands of primed cases with live primers. Personally I do not think it possible to cause one to go off in this manner. Do as Quick suggested if you want them out. BUT why? As hard as primers are to get now use the cases and then once fired do the primer pocket work. DO NOT waste primers as hard as they are to come by these days.

Sensai · « **Reply #7 on:** October 27, 2009, 10:48:32 AM »

You're right Bill, I didn't start reloading until '64. I probably need a little more experience.

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #8 on:** October 27, 2009, 10:52:46 AM »

just load and shoot the silly things and do the primer pocket work on the next loading.

I PROMISE that you'll be extremely hard pressed to find a difference in group size for prepped primer pickets vs non and unless your rifle can shoot .25" groups I seriously doubt you'd ever realize a accuracy increase in primer pocket uniforming.

I want to know what the heck you guys are doing wrong who'se "deprimed hundreds perhaps thousands of primed cases with live primers." not once in my days of reloading have I found myself in a situation that left me needing to decap live primers.

Graybeard · « **Reply #9 on:** October 27, 2009, 11:24:52 AM »

Quote from: Sensai on October 27, 2009, 10:48:32 AM

You're right Bill, I didn't start reloading until '64. I probably need a little more experience.

Some people can do a thing for 40 years and still have one year of experience as they do the same thing over and over and never gain real experience. Clearly you've NOT experienced removing live primers thus you lack that experience. I happen to have a LOT of that experience. The reasons why I did it have varied and yeah the first few times I did it with some trepidation but eventually after crushing primers about every way possible in a Lee Auto Prime and removing a few hundred live ones I decided it really wasn't that big a deal at all.

To say you've been doing some particular deed all your life does not mean you have gained experience in all aspects of it.

wncchester · « **Reply #10 on:** October 27, 2009, 11:44:33 AM »

Dittos for G.B.'s experience and observations. Anyone who hasn't loaded any experimental ammo, some of which later needed to be broken down hasn't had a lot of expereince, no matter how many reloads he's made or for how long he's done it. A little bitty primer is not a stick of dynamite looking for a chance to blow us to kingdom come.

If de-capping seems like a serious risk get a set of leather work gloves, a bikers helmet with face shield, a baseball catcher's chest pad & leg guards and some steel toe safety shoes and do it a few times until you do feel safe.

??

Dezynco · « **Reply #11 on:** October 27, 2009, 11:50:50 AM »

The only 3 times I've ever accidentally set off a primer during the reloading process is with the old Lee Classic Loader that you seat the primer with a mallet. Then it only scared me and made my ears ring. I would be careful, perhaps use safety glasses - we should all do that anyway - I never do, shame on me!

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #12 on:** October 27, 2009, 12:01:40 PM »

And just cause you've done something for 40 years and hot by without injury doesn't make it safe.

Riding a motorcycle without a helmet
driving with no seatbelt
hunting without orange
smoking
powertools without safety glasses
decaping live primers.

Quite frankly I'm astounded that you guys are arrogant enough to discount a FIRSTHAND tale of a primer anvil going through someones hand.

Dezynco · « **Reply #13 on:** October 27, 2009, 12:12:13 PM »

I'm not blowing him off, just the opposite. Anything can happen, and like I said, we should all buy a case of safety glasses and leave a pair anywhere that you might need a pair. That way you won't have an excuse to not wear them. I'm guilty of not using them when I should (never happened before, so maybe it will be OK this time....). However, I don't think there's any big danger of setting off a primer by carefully pushing it through the decapper. The primer works by "striking" the outside part, but anything can happen.

It's a shame to waste the primers just to make a very finicky adjustment to the primer pocket. I uniform my primer pockets, but not because I think it makes a dramatic difference, but because every little bit of precision can add up. I wouldn't throw away perfectly good primers just to uniform the pockets though.

Graybeard · « **Reply #14 on:** October 27, 2009, 12:39:22 PM »

I'm sure I've primed in excess of a half million cases in my reloading career. I really don't have adequate records to say with certainty just how many but that number strikes me as less than I have really loaded. In all that time I've had one single primer go off during the priming process. That was when I had a magnum ie hard lead shot in the hole in the MEC press from a spill and I failed to double check. It was pressed against the primer in just such a way it went off. I've had shot in there before that didn't but that one did. Never with centerfire ammo tho.

Why deprime? Lots of possible reasons really in my case most related to time they had been stored and the uncertainty of their status for the use to which I planned to put the case and some when I was selling brass to folks. I had loaded ammo and was breaking it down to sell the components rather than reloaded ammo. In one case I had a pile of .223 cases primed and ready and needed to make some cases for one of my TCUs and so I deprimed cases in the process of forming them in the TCU sizer.

I dunno how many I've done it to really but the number is measured in hundreds not less. I just do not believe you can cause a centerfire primer to fire by depriming it. Sorry but I just do not believe it. Sure strange things happen and perhaps someone has in fact caused it to happen. I've just done it so many times tho with zero effect that I just would have to see it to personaly believe it. I tell no one to do it I merely pass on my personal experience doing it.

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #15 on:** October 27, 2009, 12:49:24 PM »

Fair enouugh Bill!

I just think we should all stress that saftey isn't about the 1245 times you get by doing something, but rather the 1246th time you don't get by.

I not saying it can't or nececcarly shouldn't be done. But I fer darn sure think someone should know the risks and take every precaution including using proper PPE's

Graybeard · « **Reply #16 on:** October 27, 2009, 05:20:25 PM »

I'm not trying to convince anyone to do it and certainly not telling them to do so. I'm merely trying to point out evidence of what I know to be fact and that I've done countless times. I have zero concern when doing it personally. Others should make up their own minds about it. My suggestion to the OP is to not bother taking them out at all but to use them and then do the primer pocket work. I never remove a primer that is live unless I have a really good reason to do so. Today as hard as they are to come by it would really have to be a good reason.

Sensai · « **Reply #17 on:** October 28, 2009, 01:54:31 AM »

Since my experience has come into question I feel that I need to express a few facts.

I only shoot factory loads to get the brass. Everything else that I shoot, I have reloaded, and I shoot quite a bit.

Over the last 45 years I have had a reloading bench set up and active except for when I was actually in a combat zone, or in a country that had laws against it. The reasons that I reload are: 1. I really like it as a hobby. 2. I can't buy some of the loadings that I like to shoot. I do cast bullets and work up my own loads.

My experience depriming live primers is indeed limited. I was injured doing it and I stopped doing it after being injured. I don't have to touch a live electrical wire twice to see if it's still live.

Others have stated circumstantial evidence that it can't happen, because it hasn't happened to them. I have stated impirical evidence that it can happen because it did happen to me.

My ONLY motive in telling someone that it's not a safe practice is to possibly save them some grief.

And lastly:
Putting me down does not raise anyone any higher. I just want to help, not get in anyone's way.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #18 on:** October 28, 2009, 02:16:22 AM »

it probably is possible to ignite one. I would guess it would take a primer that was either crimped in place or a very tight fitted primer. Compression can cause powder to ignite and im sure it could cause a primer to do the same but that been said ive done it probably as much as Bill and its never bit me. Ask me how i know powder will ignite by compression though!!!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** October 28, 2009, 05:14:27 AM »

Here's Speer's Tech Tip for decapping live primers.

Tim

16. If you must decap live primers, wear eye and hearing protection and use slow, steady pressure to lessen the chance of detonation. Do not allow decapped live primers to build up in the primer catcher.

http://www.speer-bullets.com/reloading/tech_tips.aspx

jhalcott · « **Reply #20 on:** October 28, 2009, 05:41:38 AM »

A guy I know used to reload for a local police dept. He loaded some mag primers in a bunch of cases before discovering the mistake. He started depriming the cases and had a primer go off. The seater stem(according to him) shot up and penetrated the copper cold water line above his bench. He said he had gotten in a hurry to finish and worked the press arm to quickly. He finished depriming the cases AFTER the water line was fixed! I have removed live primers from pulled down military ammo with out incident (so far). Not needing the primers at the time I discarded them.I got a lot of ammo that was under water for weeks. I deprimed them, cleaned the brass and projectiles and reused those components. Going SLOW with the press is VERY important. You want to shove the primer out but not jam it against anything. The crimp in military brass can be trouble as can the edge of the shell holder!

Steve P · « **Reply #21 on:** October 29, 2009, 11:40:11 AM »

I won't disagree the above thing happened, but it had to have happened with the brand of dies that use the collet type of nut and 1/4" plain stock decapping pin. Wouldn't happen with the dies using the threaded decapping stem.

Have I decapped live primers? Yes. Would I do it as a standard practice? NO.

A person with live primers in brass has about 4 options (I am sure someone will come up with 5, 6, or more)
a.) Place the brass in a firearm and fire off the brass (wasted primer)
b.) Spray inside or soak primed cases with water or penetrating oil to disable the prime compound. (wasted primer)
c.) Load primed cases and deprime after firing.
d.) Carefully deprime as stated above and take a chance of being a statistic. (Could make a good story for us to read in a few days.)

No matter how much we argue amoungst ourselves, HuntHard has to make the decision on how to handle his situation. Each of us that have reloaded very long has made this decision at one time or another.

I think we can all agree on a couple of points: Safety glasses. One primer at a time. No open powder containers or measures near when priming. (Unless using one of my progressive presses, I prime in a different room.) Be careful.

Choose wisely, and take care.

Steve

rawhidekid · « **Reply #22 on:** October 29, 2009, 05:14:49 PM »

I was at a friends house just yesterday who was depriming brass and had one go off. The reason he was depriming was the scarcity of primers and he has the bad habit of priming alot of brass in antisapation of loading. His primed brass was .44 mag and he wanted to load .45 Colt. The second round the primer fired, but no damage was done. He put on eye protection and then unloaded 50 more without any problem. It never hurts to were eyeprotection, how often we do not think of it until after it was needed.

Graybeard · « **Reply #23 on:** October 29, 2009, 05:52:30 PM »

Sorry but that makes NO SENSE AT ALL. You cannot reuse primers you pull from a case. The anvil has been messed up beyond reuse on every one I've ever deprimed so what did he think he was accomplishing?

rawhidekid · « **Reply #24 on:** October 29, 2009, 07:44:01 PM »

I have removed primers and then reused them without a problem. Without a chronograph I can't say if the fps was affected, but they went bang and the target had a hole in it at the right spot. When I did it, it was with a slow steady pressure on the Rockchucker handle. The way my friend was doing it with a decaping tool, hammer and base I have no idea if they will work. After the one he ignited, he used a lighter touch and no damage was visable. I had to learn because of 500 rounds of 308 nato that was bad from India. Pulled the bullets, put in new powder and reprimed. Worked fine, actually better than the 168 match bullets I was using.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #25 on:** October 30, 2009, 12:51:59 AM »

yeah, i have done that too...

as long as you use slow steady pressure, the anvil seems ok and they fire just fine.

Graybeard · « **Reply #26 on:** October 30, 2009, 01:23:19 AM »

If you say so. Perhaps it's my technique but most all I've removed have had severely damaged anvils and many of them even fall out. I'd never consider reusing a primer I've removed.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #27 on:** October 30, 2009, 08:08:49 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on October 30, 2009, 01:23:19 AM

I'd never consider reusing a primer I've removed.

+1
The thought never even crossed my mind before this thread... $:-\$
I feel another meaningless and statisically insignificant experiment coming on!

mjbgalt · « **Reply #28 on:** October 30, 2009, 12:50:17 PM »

well i am not saying anyone should. or that i intended to.

i had a couple cartridges i sized somehow incorrectly...i think the dies were adjusted wrong and the rounds didn't fit in the rifle.

also, i have loaded up rounds and when you shoot the first 2 or 3 you KNOW it's not the right load for your rifle. so what do you do?

i resized them, gently, so as to reuse the components. poured the powder back into the jug, and reused the primer on the same brass once i resized it.

no sweat.

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #29 on:** October 30, 2009, 01:19:57 PM »

Quote from: mjbgalt on October 30, 2009, 12:50:17 PM

well i am not saying anyone should. or that i intended to.

i had a couple cartridges i sized somehow incorrectly...i think the dies were adjusted wrong and the rounds didn't fit in the rifle.

also, i have loaded up rounds and when you shoot the first 2 or 3 you KNOW it's not the right load for your rifle. so what do you do?

i resized them, gently, so as to reuse the components. poured the powder back into the jug, and reused the primer on the same brass once i resized it.

no sweat.

You guys do realize that the decapping pin can be removed don't ya?

Again why decap live primers? It's not like you won't need a primer for whatever you choose to do with that case next? Good lord think ahead people!