Author Topic: Never carried concealed, and could use some advice on a new piece. (Read 2092 times)

teddy12b · « **on:** October 28, 2009, 04:36:34 AM »

I've never carried on me and the closest thing I've ever done to that is leaving a gun under the seat in the truck or car. A situation came up where it may have been a good idea to have something on me for myself and those around me.

The only handgun I have is a full sized beretta. I won't be wearing coats, jackets, or whatever. Putting a gun under the shirt could be an option, but it's pretty easy to see them underneath an office type of shirt and it would be the last resort. I need something very small and could be in a back pocket without being noticed.

The smallest pistol I ever had was a S&W/Walther 380 that I ended up selling to an uncle. I'm thinking that's about the biggest I would want to go unless I don't have another choice.

I currently reload for 9mm & 44mag and would prefer one of those for convenience, but can still have the dies for 357mag & 45acp. If I need a whole new caliber that's fine too. I don't have a preference between revolver or auto, either one will do the job with accurate shots. I'm a large framed guy, but would prefer something tiny that could also possibly be a "wifes" gun.

Please give me some ideas of what you think would be a good gun for me.

John R. · « **Reply #1 on:** October 28, 2009, 04:56:08 AM »

An airweight chief's special would be a good one, XD9mm sub-compact would be a great choice, or a Ruger LCP for real small. Try a Crossbreed Supertuck for a holster, you can wear just a shirt and still tuck it in.

Brett · « **Reply #2 on:** October 28, 2009, 10:31:38 AM »

There are several good options in sub-compact 9mms available. The XD 9mm, Glock 27, Kel-tec pf9, etc. I carry a Kel-tec P-11 inside my waste band on my strong side myself during warmer weather.

Scibaer · « **Reply #3 on:** October 28, 2009, 10:37:00 AM »

ruger has a lcp .380 auto . it gets rave reviews and is small and light. my bought one for my wife and a backup for me.
so far they are great , eats anything i feed , accurate and well built. you can check out all the tests and reviews of them at YouTube.
and ofcourse at rugers site. i got mine for $300 a peice. you wont be disappointed with it.

kynardsj · « **Reply #4 on:** October 28, 2009, 02:45:17 PM »

Being a wheelgun man I agree with John R. Lightweight snub in a 38 would be my choice. Those 357 dies would load 38's too.

Brett · « **Reply #5 on:** October 28, 2009, 03:17:35 PM »

Didn't catch the .357mag. in your original post. John R. and Kynardsj are correct a 5 shot snub in either .357 or .38 spl is another excellent choice. If price is no consideration go with a S&W followed by Ruger. Taurus and Charter Arms offer affordable, serviceable weapons but like the refinement and strength of S&W and Ruger. When I'm not carrying my P-11 I carry a S&W m60 in a pancake holster.

GH1 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 28, 2009, 11:55:35 PM »

A glock 26 is fairly compact, as is the Ruger SR9. The Bersa Thunder series in .380, 9mm, and .45 ACP is even smaller and I believe the Kel-Tec is even smaller than the Bersa. I personally own a Bersa Thunder .380 and am very happy with it.
GH1

Mikey · « **Reply #7 on:** October 29, 2009, 01:17:56 AM »

About the flattest, smallest and most problem free semi-auto out there is the Ruger LCP in 380. After that I would go to the S&W j-frame revolvers in 38 spl.; with the Model 38/638 being my favorites.

drdougrx · « **Reply #8 on:** October 29, 2009, 01:29:18 AM »

I agree with Mikey....I'd also add a SW scandium something or other or a PPK....I still like those.

williamlayton · « **Reply #9 on:** October 29, 2009, 01:30:03 AM »

Walther PPK is THE answer. Flat and put it in your front pocket.
I have carried as such for 40 years.
Blessings

teddy12b · « **Reply #10 on:** October 29, 2009, 02:47:36 AM »

Quote from: Mikey on October 29, 2009, 01:17:56 AM

About the flattest, smallest and most problem free semi-auto out there is the Ruger LCP in 380.

I found this last night.

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/LCPRecall/

A recall for the Ruger LCP. I'm trying to think of the last New Ruger anything that came out without a recall. I do like the looks of these though even though they are the copy of a Kel-tec.

I had a PPK years ago and sold it to my uncle. I talked with him yesterday about it and he's never fired it. Seemed strange to me that he never fired it because he just had to have it.

Willum241 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 29, 2009, 07:52:51 AM »

I've been carrying a P-64 (Polish surplus) 9x 18 since July in a pocket holster that was made for Walther PPK. It makes a rectangular bulge in my right front pocket but the gun doesn't print. In Ohio it's okay (legally) if people suspect you're carrying as long as they can't see the weapon. I've carried it everywhere and not gotten a second look. The bulge is less obvious if I wear dark pants and I have a few pair of Dockers "Classic Fit" cargo pants. The back pockets have the cargo flaps and are pleated for expansion, but the front pockets are like you'd get with any slacks, except there's a small zippered pocket below the right front pocket that's handy for a folding knife.
I can't carry at in the office but still keep the empty holster in my pocket and no one has commented on it, even my boss who has CCW permit and knows I do too. I recently bought a Bersa Thunder .380 and can carry it the same way, but am not carrying it yet as I only have one mag (for now) and have not practiced with it enough.

The P-64 was $159 about a year ago and I put another $10.00 in it for a lighter hammer spring. The double action trigger pull was waaay too stiff, and this fix brought it down to a reasonable level to make an accurate enough first shot at body mass.

Here's a link to a P-64 website: http://p64resource.com/

I'm going to the Bersa for a number of reasons:
The P-64 has the mag release at the butt of the pistol, next to the bottom end of the mag so it takes two hands to drop out the empty
The Bersa has 7+1 capacity vs 6+1 for the P-64
Thunderbore makes a .380 round that has higher muzzle energy than anything I've found in 9 X 18, so I'm not giving up any firepower with the switch.
The Bersa has better ergonomics and felt recoil is lighter. Wouldn't matter in a gunfight but it makes a difference when shooting 50-100 rounds in practice.

The Bersa was $259 new when I bought it a week ago. I was new to handguns at the time I bought the P-64 but was anticipating CCW and its size appealed to me. It has been reliable and accurate and I'd recommend it for someone who wants the lower cost (and ammo is cheaper), but if you want to spend another hundred bucks I'd recommend the Bersa.

drdougrx · « **Reply #12 on:** October 29, 2009, 02:36:42 PM »

I also carried a PPK/S for years when working or around town. That was then....

JJ79 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 29, 2009, 07:44:05 PM »

Quote from: teddy12b on October 28, 2009, 04:36:34 AM

I'm a large framed guy, but would prefer something tiny that could also possibly be a "wifes" gun.

Please give me some ideas of what you think would be a good gun for me.

tiny guns for wives are a bad idea...

that said, for the scenario you describe, my pick would be XD9 sub-compact...after that, Ruger LCR.

-JJ

Brett · « **Reply #14 on:** October 30, 2009, 02:10:53 AM »

Forget the mouse guns. .38spl or 9mm is the minimum power I would carry for SD.

teddy12b · « **Reply #15 on:** October 30, 2009, 02:41:41 AM »

I'm kind of leaning towards the sub compact models made by glock & the springfield XD. I'd like to stay with 9mm because I can use the same inventory.

drdougrx · « **Reply #16 on:** October 30, 2009, 02:51:42 AM »

Hey Teddy....ever think about a SW3913 or 3914??? I have the 14 (blued version)...they're are pretty nice.

teddy12b · « **Reply #17 on:** October 30, 2009, 03:17:57 AM »

My uncle has a 38 snub nose he's going to let me try out for a little while along with letting my borrow the ppk 380 I sold him years ago. Who knows, he might make me a deal on one since I don't think he's ever shot either one. His guns are safe queens.

trotterlg · « **Reply #18 on:** October 30, 2009, 01:00:13 PM »

Quote

tiny guns for wives are a bad idea...

Any gun is better than no gun. Which would you choose, be shot by a tiny gun or not shot at all? If the only thing you will carry all the time is a 22 short single shot in you're watch pocket, then buy one and carry it all the time. Larry

spruce · « **Reply #19 on:** October 30, 2009, 01:50:42 PM »

In 9mm I'd go with one of the models from Kahr Arms or, for less money, the Keltec PF9. Both are as easy or easier to conceal as a Bersa .380 and chamber a more effective round.

In .38/.357 it's hard to beat a S&W J-frame, but the Charter Arms is a good buy if you're on a budget.

Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable going any lower in caliber, but I have to agree anything is better than nothing.

JJ79 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 30, 2009, 06:52:28 PM »

Quote from: trotterlg on October 30, 2009, 01:00:13 PM

Quote
tiny guns for wives are a bad idea...

Any gun is better than no gun. Which would you choose, be shot by a tiny gun or not shot at all? If the only thing you will carry all the time is a 22 short single shot in you're watch pocket, then buy one and carry it all the time. Larry

and which is his wife more likely to MISS with? a NAA .22, or an XD9 sub-compact?

you're right, any gun is better than none, but why not stack the odds in her favor?

I'd say if the only thing someone will carry is a .22 single shot, they're not very serious about defending themselves....

-JJ

trotterlg · « **Reply #21 on:** October 30, 2009, 07:41:03 PM »

You don't understand what I am saying, if you leave it at home it is of no use at all, so step down to what ever you will take with you every time you leave the house. Your chances of needing it are probably slim to none, but it is better to have a little something all the time than a big something that you left at home. I would say that someone who carries every day, no matter what they carry, is dead serious. Larry

Tonk · « **Reply #22 on:** October 31, 2009, 03:02:34 AM »

Teddy-12B, I would advise staying away from the cheap pocket type pistols such as the Ruger LCP and those Kel-Tec's period......nothing but a headache etc. I know been there and owned 3 of them. I will NOT trust my life to such a pistol. Those Ruger LCP's are pure JUNK in my eyes.

The 9mm Luger caliber has over twice the kinetic energy as the .380-auto just for starters! 190-lbs verses 483-lbs of energy.....Fact!!! I used "Pow-R-Ball" ammo, very good ammo for self-defense.

A sub-compact GLOCK is hard to beat as a CCW weapon for self-defense on the street. It has twice the magazine capacity as the 5 shot revolver. However, a good Smith & Wesson Airweight is hard to beat too.
Lenny McGills DVD on using a weapon for self-defense will show you how he goes through various drills using the GLOCK model 26 (9mm Luger) very good training aid.

Dee · « **Reply #23 on:** October 31, 2009, 03:24:49 AM »

I have been carrying concealed for about 35 years now, and have tried them all. The most useful, and the one that I carry most is the Model 60 Smith in 357mag, loaded with 125 grain jhps, and in an inside the waistband holster. There are a lot of expensive holster rigs out there, but a simple suede leather with a belt clip has proved the most useful and the most comfortable.
As far as firepower, the idea is not to enter into a sustained gun battle, but to get you out of peril as quickly as possible. The 38 special +p's in 125 grain jhp, OR the 357 mag in the same bullet offer more than enough punch to stop a threat, and allow an exit.

drdougrx · « **Reply #24 on:** October 31, 2009, 05:28:23 AM »

Hey Teddy....this is kind of a long post.

Dee and some of the others have given you some really good advise...they are sooo right...It can take awhile and a lot of different guns until you figure out what works for you personally. I swore I'd only carry a LW commander or a PPK. And did/do...well sometimes...

I carried a PPK/s in a suede in the pant for YEARS. Then one day I was out in summer doing whatever and I sweat right through it and all I could think about was ruining the beautiful blued finish. Then went to a SW M60 in 38 spec w 158gr SWC+P in about 1988ish. I carried that for a a few years as well until I got into the custom gun bug and had it rebuilt by Weigand precision into their executive package...what an unbeleivable, expensive, cool looking and useless piece it had become. It had hybraports...3 holes on the top of the custom 3" barrel that after the first shot went ahead and blackened the trituim front site. Sold it.

I went to a HP as well...carried it alot. Then I had it rebuilt by cylinder and slide shop...all the bells and whistles, I mean everything...what a thing of beauty! Bought another and left it stock. The custom sat in my safe for years...sold it. BTW...I've had a dozen guns rebuilt to their ULTIMATE configuration for personal defense...all I have left is a series 70 colt GM built for IPSC be Mike LaRocca of LaRocca Gunworks in Worcester MA...my 1st custom in '82. All are gone.......

I the meantime, I went to a SW3914, a single stack 9mm that's flat and compact and I shoot it well with its factory hiene sites and a set of wolffe springs. Later I bought a colt mustang pocket lite for pocket carry though I don't carry it at all, I'd rather something that I can get my hands around...still..it's as big as my beretta jetfire in 25acp and has more authority (the jetfire is also retired).

Now...we're full circle...I have another SWm60 in .357 that just eats 125gr HPs, and I carry it in a suede in the pant and its just great! I do on occasion carry my colt lw that I had a ramp throat and polish on for reliability and tritium sites (so that I can see them...I mean the tritium helps but the shape is what does it for my 51 yo eyes) and had the tail of the grip safety shortened and rounded so it wouldn't bite me, and, put a pair of Chip McCormack thinline grip panels on it to make it flatter (i do this as much as possible...works great on my 2 HPs). That's all. And then there's the 3914...so I'm kinda down to three depending on where and how, etc.

It always just depends...I even have a fully engraved BBQ gun...SWm60 (a texas hold'm edition) that I carry to fancy parties at my gun club....sometimes...I've learned an expensive lesson to be sure...now if I rebuild guns, it's for hunting and because I want something different...not for self defense...

Long winded response to a worthwhile thread.....

JJ79 · « **Reply #25 on:** October 31, 2009, 06:17:54 AM »

Quote from: trotterlg on October 30, 2009, 07:41:03 PM

You don't understand what I am saying, if you leave it at home it is of no use at all, so step down to what ever you will take with you every time you leave the house.

hey Larry...

I still respectfully disagree... the correct answer, IMO, is to make self-defense enough of a priority/commitment to carry a sufficient weapon, not just carry the smallest available gun every day because it's more convenient. ("every day" is the key here...)

"sufficient" would naturally depend on the shooter's training/ability. there are folks out there who can get consistent center-mass hits under stress with a tiny pistol. however, in the case of most wives I know, their frequency of training/skill level does not lend itself to a mouse-gun being a wise choice for them. that said, it's not a "wives cain't shoot" slam...even most guys I know would have a hard time with a tiny derringer/pocket auto in a true self-defense situation. (myself included)

granted, there are days when I carry my Ruger LCR because wardrobe makes it difficult to conceal my XDm .40. but it is NOT my every day carry, and the LCR is definitely as small as I would go personally.

just my 2 cents...(and that's about all they're worth)

-JJ

trotterlg · « **Reply #26 on:** November 02, 2009, 04:16:47 PM »

My chances of needing a gun are one in thousands, probably the same for most everyone, I am 62, so I have had a few days to test this thought, and I have only had about 3 time it was or would have been useful (Not counting time in the Army). If I need one it most likely will be a last ditch kind of thing where any thing would be better than nothing. I cannot think of any real life situtation where the shot would need to be more than about 5 feet, any more than that and any more than about two shots would probably require a lot of explaining to be self defense. I am not in a high risk area and do not have a high risk life style, but then it is always good to be prepared. What I take is a two shot 38 Special, it can hit a pie plate at 10 feet every time. Larry

Casull · « **Reply #27 on:** November 02, 2009, 04:40:31 PM »

Quote

there are folks out there who can get consistent center-mass hits under stress with a tiny pistol. however, in the case of most wives I know, their frequency of training/skill level does not lend itself to a mouse-gun being a wise choice for them.

It would be hard NOT to hit center mass from self defense distance of 6 or 7 feet.

JJ79 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 02, 2009, 06:17:51 PM »

Quote from: Casull on November 02, 2009, 04:40:31 PM

It would be hard NOT to hit center mass from self defense distance of 6 or 7 feet.

respectfully, this is simply untrue... just ask all the LEO's who've missed from even closer ranges, with duty-size pistols...

case in point...my carry class instructor was retired hwy patrol. told us about a study of statistics he & a colleague did on self-defense shootings in the state of TN over the past 20 years. I'd have to look back at my notes to be sure of the #'s, but this is pretty close:

avg. # of rounds fired = 4 per person (this includes victim & perp)

avg. range = 3 feet or less

avg. hit ratio = 17%

pretty telling numbers... also, keep in mind, that my original point was regarding a gun for the OP's wife. if she's like most wives I know, she might get out to the range a couple times per year. in this is the case/scenario, a mouse-gun is indeed a very bad choice for her.

-JJ

Casull · « **Reply #29 on:** November 02, 2009, 06:40:46 PM »

Quote

respectfully, this is simply untrue... just ask all the LEO's who've missed from even closer ranges, with duty-size pistols...

case in point...my carry class instructor was retired hwy patrol. told us about a study of statistics he & a colleague did on self-defense shootings in the state of TN over the past 20 years. I'd have to look back at my notes to be sure of the #'s, but this is pretty close:

avg. # of rounds fired = 4 per person (this includes victim & perp)

avg. range = 3 feet or less

avg. hit ratio = 17%

Sorry, but I just can't buy this. I don't see how you can miss a target that is two feet high and two feet wide at a distance of three feet. You would have to be facing the other way, or trying to miss.