Author Topic: A change in attitude is needed (Read 1417 times)

Double D · « **on:** October 29, 2009, 06:07:01 PM »

It seems the hardest thing for us to do when thinking about building a cannon is coming up with something to shoot out of it.

Sporting goods seem to be the first thing that comes to mind when we look for projectiles; Golf balls, pool balls, bowling balls, beer cans full of cement...

When settling on a cannon design we build it around these recreation items. Then after the gun is built we find out how poor a projectile these item realy are in cannons..well except maybe the bowling ball.

There is a source for round ball that we have discusssed before, but dealing with the companies involved have not been that easy. I have contact several companies in the past about suppling balls, but always run on requirment for large minumum order and lack of availability in sizes we need for the guns we have. The round balls I am thinking off course are steel bearing or grinding balls.

Steel have a reputation for bouncing. These balls also need special in matching the ball to the bore...windage critical! But with the knowledge before hand they just might work.

Gary-RocklockI has a source for steel balls. They provide him round balls at a reasonable pric andno minimum order.

I have been in contact with Fox Industries. They have chrome and carbon bearings available in sizes we can work with for new builds. I am still working on balls for the old line we have already built.

Here is what they told me they sell that is close to what we are doing.

1" - 25 mm
chrome balls 22.8 mm
$0.75 each + frgt

Carbon balls 1 1/2" , 2" and 2 1/2"
$1.00 each + frgt

no minimum order

I am going to try and get a list of the sizes an prices for what they make and post it here.

If you guys are starting a build think about building it around the balls they sell. If we start ordering from them and they see we are a real customer base, perhaps we can convince them to provide us round balls in golf ball and pop can sizes...then the next step after that is hit them up to become a board sponsor. But they probably want us to buy first.

Evil Dog · « **Reply #1 on:** October 29, 2009, 06:23:58 PM »

Sounds like it is sure worth exploring.

KABAR2 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 29, 2009, 06:55:45 PM »

" A change in attitude is needed"

Well that's a relief I thought it was something I said ,

zi think you are on the right track, the trick is getting everything scaled to the bore size if you are using a boring bar it should not be a problem,

but if someone is using a deep hole drill then it means more money for a new drill. I have been thinking on this also and was going to explore

CNC made projo's made for rifled guns, I have a local machine shop that would be able to do it, just got to figure out if doable at price.

BoomLover · « **Reply #3 on:** October 29, 2009, 07:47:41 PM »

Double D, I have been thinking about ball bearings for some time now, and the larger sizes you mentioned sound pretty good. I, like many of us, have a use for the 1" and the 2 1/2" balls. Either the chrome, or the carbon, would work fine. In the 1", I don't know if you can make them much cheaper, considering the raw material, the casting supplies, and then your time casting, not to mention faulty or defective balls. Maybe if some of the members could go together to make a larger order, that might work too. I'm getting on their site to see if they have the 50, 69, and 75 caliber balls. BoomLover

RocklockI · « **Reply #4 on:** October 29, 2009, 08:01:17 PM »

I'll chime in here , they are very good folks to work with . I've delt with Tim twice now and he is an fan of cannons . In fact i chatted with him today he's happy with the sales , you must understand that says something as two orders of 50 doesnt really do much for their bottom line ...duhh do ya think ?

I think the usual order is for " 8 tons please " what they sell are over runs and extras . They come shipped in a sealed plastic bucket .

And as DD can atest I was ringing the 1800 yard 12" Dia. gong with every shot in Montana .

it almost sounded like the anvil chorus ...remember Doug ?

all kidding aside they are 'IT' for round ball ammo , regular 'Target Grade' stuff .

Gary

GGaskill · « **Reply #5 on:** October 29, 2009, 08:15:36 PM »

A couple of years ago, I started a thread about steel round balls that were on sale at the time. They are still for sale, although at slightly higher prices. Check out the Enco Master Catalog. They have both fractional inch sizes and metric sizes in carbon steel, chrome steel and stainless steel. As examples, 1/2" carbon steel balls are 7.95/100 and 1" carbon steel balls are 15.70/25.

BoomLover · « **Reply #6 on:** October 29, 2009, 08:38:51 PM »

Just got the new Enco Master Cat. I'll be sure to look up those! (This thing is so heavy, it will hold your papers down in a hurricane!) Thanks for the tip, George! Those prices are pretty good, even if you have to ream out the barrel a tad, and you don't have to worry about leaving lead in the ground, or lead fouling, either! Good "heads up"! This will be a change of attitude for many, a "change" we can learn to enjoy! BoomLover

Ex 49'er · « **Reply #7 on:** October 29, 2009, 09:12:47 PM »

Quote from: RocklockI on October 29, 2009, 08:01:17 PM

I'll chime in here , they are very good folks to work with . I've delt with Tim twice now and he is an fan of cannons . In fact i chatted with him today he's happy with the sales , you must understand that says something as two orders of 50 doesnt really do much for their bottom line ...duhh do ya think ?
And as DD can atest I was ringing the 1800 yard 12" Dia. gong with every shot in Montana . it almost sounded like the anvil chorus ...remember Doug ? Gary

What flavor of steel ball are you using, Gary? Chrome, Carbon..........?

tesavis · « **Reply #8 on:** October 30, 2009, 02:15:02 AM »

This is a great Idea!

Please don't forget 2.25" for us pool ball shooters, thanks.

Soot · « **Reply #9 on:** October 30, 2009, 03:44:09 AM »

Some years ago I worked near a shop that rebuilt cv joints for auto parts stores. They always had an entire dumpster full of huge bearing that I sure they sell as scrap steel. I'm gonna see if I can get buy there and check it out.

RocklockI · « **Reply #10 on:** October 30, 2009, 05:59:33 AM »

not chromed but polished . i didnt know they offered round but unpolished till yeaterdays phone call from Tim .

make sure if you want a ball in inches have them check metrics mine are 42.8mm thats Dom Golfball size 1.750 bore . some gb guns are a bit smaller dia. bore .

Gary

cannonmn · « **Reply #11 on:** October 30, 2009, 10:05:41 AM »

Quote

A change in attitude is needed

One of the many HR classes I had to take while working in da gummint was one which taught "You cannot change attitudes, but you can change behaviors."

So there you are, Mr. D!

Cpt Ed · « **Reply #12 on:** October 30, 2009, 01:15:43 PM »

Quote from: RocklockI on October 30, 2009, 05:59:33 AM

not chromed but polished . i didnt know they offered round but unpolished till yeaterdays phone call from Tim .

make sure if you want a ball in inches have them check metrics mine are 42.8mm thats Dom Golfball size 1.750 bore . some gb guns are a bit smaller dia. bore .

Gary

WHAT IS THE WEIGHT OF YOUR 42.8MM STEEL BALLS?? I HAVE BEEN USING THE LEAD BALLS FROM THE SUPPLIER IN OKLAHOMA CITY WHICH WEIGH 1LB AND ARE 1.69 IN DIAMETER.

THANKS FOR THE INFO.

1Southpaw · « **Reply #13 on:** October 30, 2009, 01:50:02 PM »

Want to build a super long tube huge powder chamber one . I'm looking for 1 mile range . got to keep the neighbors @ bay .

I am looking for a piece or solid round stock 9" in diameter by 12" long . Powder chamber aproximately 2.75" x 8" deep . Big bang theory . Lots of smoke , lots of oohs and ahhhh's . :>)

RocklockI · « **Reply #14 on:** October 30, 2009, 02:33:36 PM »

11.25 oz is what my balls weigh

Ex 49'er · « **Reply #15 on:** October 30, 2009, 06:34:20 PM »

How would wood balls work. I found an auction for 1 3/4" birch balls. 100 for $48.00

RocklockI · « **Reply #16 on:** October 30, 2009, 07:01:49 PM »

I think you can get wood balls at Hobby Lobby . kinda a whiffle ball ?

BoomLover · « **Reply #17 on:** October 30, 2009, 07:18:42 PM »

Ex 49'er, wouldn't 1 3/4" birch wood balls be quite lite? I don't think they would go much farther than across your back yard! (Well, a bit farther than that, but not too much!) Just speculation on my part, however, they could be doctored a bit with a lead sinker insert to the core, then backfilled with sawdust and/or wood putty to gain some weight. Another problem might be they might turn to sawdust upon firing.. maybe coat them with a good varnish or paint finish to help hold them together? Speaking of wood balls, I tried those round drawer pull knobs, again, too light..BoomLover

BoomLover · « **Reply #18 on:** October 30, 2009, 07:27:40 PM »

Speaking of "things to use as projectiles", anyone attempt to use marbles as grape shot? You can get bags of them pretty cheap, might fire a cluster in my 2.25 to see the effect.. with a soft background/backdrop to minimize "return fire"! Don't want to have to "Duck and Cover" like someone we know who likes to fire G.B.'s at hard targets! LOL (Done it myself, know the feeling!) BoomLover

Victor3 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 31, 2009, 12:29:09 AM »

I'd encourage anyone shooting steel balls to be mindful of the target material and distance you shoot them to. Best not to shoot them at thick steel, wood, rock or any other resilient material at close range.

RocklockI · « **Reply #20 on:** October 31, 2009, 02:01:01 AM »

Quote from: BoomLover on October 30, 2009, 07:27:40 PM

Speaking of "things to use as projectiles", anyone attempt to use marbles as grape shot? You can get bags of them pretty cheap, might fire a cluster in my 2.25 to see the effect.. with a soft background/backdrop to minimize "return fire"! Don't want to have to "Duck and Cover" like someone we know who likes to fire G.B.'s at hard targets! LOL (Done it myself, know the feeling!) BoomLover

a 'learning experiance'

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #21 on:** November 01, 2009, 02:33:49 AM »

Quote from: Double D on October 29, 2009, 06:07:01 PM

It seems the hardest thing for us to do when thinking about building a cannon is coming up with something to shoot out of it.
....

That's why I select the ammo first, then bore to that diameter.

In reloading with cast bullets there is also a disconnect between those that make moulds and those that make rifles - trying to find a mould that casts a bullet that really fits the throat of the bore is difficult at best.

One would think that a vendor SOMEWHERE would put a collection of spheres on the market.

PaulB · « **Reply #22 on:** November 01, 2009, 03:15:21 AM »

I'm thinking of ordering a few of the "hot stamped smooth steel spheres" from King Metals. Has anyone tried them?
I'll have to make some sabot's but I'm coming to the realization that with a 1 1/4" bore, until I have a mold made and cast zinc (or shoot lead) that I'm going to have to use 1 3/16" balls.

FTB1-SS · « **Reply #23 on:** November 01, 2009, 03:54:04 AM »

Yes I have used the king metal iron balls, for my 2inch gun I used their 1 15/16 iron balls, the problem is that there not consistent in size. I had to grind them to round at 1.950 using a bench belt sander and a .25 aluminum plate with a 1.950 hole in it for a gauge. It did not take that long and is cheaper than making a mold and casting them for me.

PaulB · « **Reply #24 on:** November 01, 2009, 04:29:13 AM »

Quote from: FTB1-SS on November 01, 2009, 03:54:04 AM

Yes I have used the king metal iron balls, for my 2inch gun I used their 1 15/16 iron balls, the problem is that there not consistent in size. I had to grind them to round at 1.950 using a bench belt sander and a .25 aluminum plate with a 1.950 hole in it for a gauge. It did not take that long and is cheaper than making a mold and casting them for me.

Thanks, I may give them a try. I'm really not too crazy about casting zinc.

Cpt Ed · « **Reply #25 on:** November 02, 2009, 03:42:16 AM »

Correction on the contact person at Fox Industries, in New Jersey.

The gentlemans name, as corrected by him, this morning is KEN and not Tim as was mentioned in some of the previous postings.

Ken is checking his inventory of overruns of the 42.8mm carbon steel, unpolished, round balls for me.

I will try the steel cannon balls at the upcoming Hernando Sportsman's Club Cannon shoot in Brooksville, Florida on November 22nd.

RocklockI · « **Reply #26 on:** November 02, 2009, 07:08:46 AM »

These darn people always puttin out BS we need to crack down on those guys

Cpt Ed is right ..... it seems I have made an error ......hard to believe

Ken is the guy !
Gary

Double D · « **Reply #27 on:** November 02, 2009, 07:23:06 AM »

No wonder the guy didn't answer my eamil promptly...I called him by the wrong name!!

RocklockI · « **Reply #28 on:** November 02, 2009, 07:40:21 AM »

I JUST got off the phone with KEN , he told me that had to straighten out Cpt Ed .....who in turn straightened me out ,so I called Ken to make sure everybody is straightened out good now ...they are .

He did kinda chuckle when did told me "that DD guy couldnt even remember his name ......and how he wouldnt return his emails "

.
Ken is an interesting fellow and a talker ....likes cannons and C.W. stuff ...

AND he said that if any of you guys want some balls he can 'hold' some for you when they come thru ,because all these tiny quantities are just overruns and extras so sometimes they are 'out of stock'

Also that if demand was ever great enough he'd make sure they were always in stock .

Gary