Author Topic: New SAMCC barrel  (Read 43487 times)

0 Members and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Soot

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 391
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #90 on: January 26, 2010, 04:07:28 AM »
Are you looking for brass square nuts?
Here are some in steel: Here
Got a 4 jaw chuck for that lathe? make your own.

Online Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12607
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #91 on: January 26, 2010, 04:20:08 AM »
Looking for "iron"  For $4.87/100 I'll buy first. Thanks for the link I'll add it to the list.

If an one has a source for eye bolts forged  or solid eye  with an eye ID of 1/2" or smaller please let me know.

I als need a about 3-4 feet of 3/8" hemp rope.  Not sisal or manila, but hemp.  Any body have some top sell/  I have 1/2" hemp rope to trade.  I may be force to buy 50'.

Offline Cat Whisperer

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7493
  • Gender: Male
  • Pulaski Coehorn Works
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #92 on: January 26, 2010, 06:27:47 AM »
George,

Southpaw and I are headed to the big city today, he's driving.  We'll look around for square nuts.

hmmmm.  WE grew up in the 60's.   ;D
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
Cat Whisperer
Chief of Smoke, Pulaski Coehorn Works & Winery
U.S.Army Retired
N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)

Offline seacoastartillery

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2853
  • Gender: Male
    • seacoastartillery.com
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #93 on: January 26, 2010, 08:20:43 AM »
Worked some more on the gun carriage today.  I was going to forge the cap square key post and the cap square hinge post.  Right now I just don't have the equipment. Leasing welding tanks got shelved to buy a new furnace for the house.

Last night I pinned the carriage together with nails and some carriage bolts I had laying around.



 The SAMCC gun was bolted together with small brass rods and nuts. The carriage bolts I had are 10-24 the smallest that I have seen.   The heads of the these bolts are larger in diameter than I like and not quite the right shape. I Put the bolts in the3 jaw chuck on my lathe and reshaped the head.  Turned the heads down and scrubbed the markings off with my long angle lathe file.





Looks better.



The two bolts  of the transom are so close together that the nuts interfere with each  both are put on the same side. , So I put them head to tails. Bolt head of one and nut of another on one side, same thing on the other.  I made the heads smaller for the transom cross screws than the other bolts .  I also counter sunk the holes for the transom bolt heads to give clearance for the nuts.

I need to find some 10-24 square nuts. Anybody got any they might part with.

Next caps squares and elevator.  Then final fit, finish and paint. 

     
     Thanks for posting those in-process photos, Double D.  Mike and I really look forward to seeing that type of photo, unfortunately I think we are decidedly in the minority with this love of in-process pics.  Very few makers post them, leaving me to wonder why.  After all it only takes a couple minutes to take a photo occasionally as you make your cannon.  There are no real secrets to doing any of this work and if we can show everyone exactly how to build a rifling machine and not worry about a thousand people doing that and immediately duplicating what we do, then there is simply nobody out there who has to worry about any "secrets" being revealed.  Lets face it, all of this work has been done before by thousands and thousands of craftsmen through the ages.

     Anyway, keep those pics coming.  They are very, very interesting!  Your carriage is looking great!

Mike and Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Soot

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 391
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #94 on: January 26, 2010, 09:41:51 AM »
Small eye bolts are here: Click
Or here: Click

Offline Josco

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 57
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #95 on: January 26, 2010, 10:44:19 AM »
DD,

I checked my junk boxes but sorry, no 10-24 square nuts. I agree with Soot, pick up a short length of square key stock and make your own if you can't find them locally. If you don't have a 4 jaw chuck just take a piece of round stock about
1 1/2" long about 3/4" in dia. and drill the appropriate dia. hole equal to the distance over the corners of the square stock then slit it lengthwise through one side with a hacksaw. You will then have a decent split bushing to hold the square stock in your 3 jaw chuck. Face, chamfers ,center, drill, tap and cut off then c'sink the back end, all done 5 minutes tops.

Regards
  Joe

Offline irishman

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 442
    • Brooks-USA
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #96 on: January 26, 2010, 02:22:41 PM »
DD,

Do you need brass square nuts? If so, what square do you need? I do have a 1/2 sq. collet and stock. I can do smaller for 10/24.

                       Michael

Online Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12607
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #97 on: January 26, 2010, 06:59:09 PM »
Thanks every one for checking.

No Brass hardware for me.   For this gun, it's iron hardware. 

I got the 10 square nuts  and 4 feet of 3/8" manila today.  After I got the rope home and put it on the cannon, 3/8" is to big.  I should have checked the 1/4" hemp rope first.  The 1/4" looks better. what do you think?

3/8"


1/4"


I may make a clevis set for the breech line, like I made on the M1841.  I may also make a ring and eye set up like used on HMS Victory guns.  I'll have to go through those hardware links and see if I can find something that might work.


Offline irishman

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 442
    • Brooks-USA
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #98 on: January 29, 2010, 11:04:16 AM »
  The 1/4" looks better. what do you think?

3/8"


1/4"


DD,  Definitely the 1/4 inch. It has been exciting for me to watch how all this goes together.
With the little that I provide in the way of a "carriage", this is putting in more pieces of the puzzel. I am watching to see what 1Southpaw will come up with.

                                        Michael

Offline Terry C.

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1215
  • Gender: Male
  • I see what you did there...
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #99 on: January 29, 2010, 11:17:53 AM »
Maybe it's the two different types of rope, but it looks like a lot more than 1/8" difference between the two.

I agree that the manila is too big. Probably too stiff, too. I would go with the 1/4" hemp.

Offline GGaskill

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5668
  • Gender: Male
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #100 on: January 29, 2010, 11:36:16 AM »
One looks too big and the other too small.  Are they really the nominal diameters?  How do they compare visually to pictures of real mounted guns?
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline RocklockI

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2747
  • Gender: Male
  • Morko and Me
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #101 on: January 29, 2010, 12:42:49 PM »
1/4"
If anyone calls you on it tell them 'it's the VOC Southern rigging and if they knew anything they would not mistake it for Northern rig so easily .

Or 'get a life' ,it looks fine to me . 
Gary
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline irishman

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 442
    • Brooks-USA
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #102 on: January 29, 2010, 05:23:57 PM »
1/4"
If anyone calls you on it tell them 'it's the VOC Southern rigging and if they knew anything they would not mistake it for Northern rig so easily .

Or 'get a life' ,it looks fine to me . 
Gary
You go Gary! It is the VOC Southern, or the CSA, or the US....all we want is "fire and smoke"!

                         Michael

Online Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12607
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #103 on: January 29, 2010, 06:35:24 PM »
I'll bet the hemp rope is 3/16" and not 1/4".  Here is a piece of sisal rope that I had out in the shop that is for sure 1/4 inch.



Looks better doesn't it!

Online Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12607
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #104 on: January 29, 2010, 07:13:33 PM »
Any one ever done business with Green Boat Stuff?  The sell hemp rope by the foot.

Offline Cannoneer

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3950
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #105 on: January 29, 2010, 09:44:22 PM »
DD,
The last photo with the ¼-inch sisal looks like the right size for the breeching rope on your gun.
This is from a PDF about the HMS Victory. I think the 6½-inch cicumfrence breeching rope is for 32-pounders.


Side and train tackles: There were three identical tackles for each gun, two side tackles and a train tackle. Irrespective of use each comprised one double and one single block through which were roved the falls (ropes).



Their functions were as follows:

Side tackles: Fitted each side of the gun, one double block was hooked to the ring bolt fixed to the ship's side alongside the gunport and the single block rigged to the eye bolt on the side of the carriage cheek, just above the rear truck. These tackles were used to run the gun out from its reload/recoil position and to train it left or right when the captain of the gun was aiming at the target. Also used to stop the gun running back due to the heel of the ship.
Train tackle comprised one single block hooked to the eyebolt in the centre of the rear axle-tree and the double block hooked to a ring bolt in the deck as far inboard near the centreline of the ship. This tackle was used to stop the gun running out on its own due to the heel of the ship. It was also used to run the gun in if the slope of the deck made it necessary, or if no recoil when firing blanks/saluting charges. This made it possible for the muzzle to be inboard and clear of the gun port so that sponging and reloading could take place.

Quarter bolt: In addition to the ring bolts fitted either side of the gun ports to which the side tackles were normally hooked, there was another ring bolt on the ship's side between each gun position and shared by two guns, which enabled the extremes of training to right and left to be achieved.

Breeching rope: A stout rope of between 6.1/2 ins (16.5 cm) and 5 ins. (12.7 cm) circumference, depending on size of gun, used to restrain the recoil of the gun. Made to a length of 3 x length of the gun, after firing it permitted the muzzle to be a little inboard from the gun port to enable sponging and reloading to be carried out. The rope passed through the breeching loop (neck ring) on the cascable, then down through the ring bolts fitted each side of the carriage cheeks and then made securely fast to ring bolts fixed to the ship's side either side of the gun port. Ringbolts on the carriage cheeks were in use until about 1854. They were discontinued around 1854/1860. As these bolts appear in many earlier drawings and for many years later than 1805, Victory guns would originally have had ringbolts fitted on all the carriages.
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline gulfcoastblackpowder

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 808
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #106 on: January 30, 2010, 12:05:44 AM »
I've never bought hemp rope, but I'm planning to order some as matchcord for a matchlock I've got, and ran across a recommendation somewhere for this site (also sells by the foot): http://www.turkeyfootllc.com/Hemproducts.html

They don't have quite as many sizes, but they're a little cheaper - haven't looked at the shipping yet.

Online Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12607
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #107 on: January 30, 2010, 12:37:40 AM »
Well the cheapest I have found so far is http://www.rawganique.com/HArope.htm,  but I need less the 5 feet and rawfnaique will only sell me a kilo, minumum, so turkeyfoot looks like the way to go.  Thanks

Offline dan610324

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2413
  • Gender: Male
  • bronze cannons and copper stills ;-))
    • dont have
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #108 on: January 30, 2010, 01:17:49 AM »
when you take a smaller diameter rope of the original fibre you get problem with the fiber size
yoy only scale down the diameter and not the fibres
so why not use cotton rope instead of hemp ??
there you got a much smaller fiber
and remember that all naval ropes should be soaked in tar
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Online Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12607
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #109 on: January 30, 2010, 02:04:49 AM »
I believe only certain ropes were soaked in tar to so they wouldn't get water soaked and stretch.  On the old sailing ships I have been on only stays and guys, the standing rigging were tar soaked.  Working ropes, the running rigging like sheets, lines and halyards were not treated.

On modern sailing vessels standing rigging is rigid steel cable, running rigging is supple synthetics. 

I did consider cotton rope at one time.  At that time I couldn't find the right sizes in small quantity.  After getting using hemp, I just like it better.

Offline Max Caliber

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 524
  • Gender: Male
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #110 on: January 30, 2010, 02:51:58 AM »
Back then, rope of that size was usually made of four strands, modern rope is usually three strands. Also, they were twisted much more than modern rope. 
Max

Offline Zulu

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2477
  • Honor is a gift a man gives himself.
    • Wood & Ironworks
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #111 on: January 30, 2010, 03:44:55 AM »
DD,
When are you going to cut the arch in the bottom of the carriage cheeks?
Zulu
Zulu's website
www.jmelledge.com

Online Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12607
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #112 on: January 30, 2010, 07:54:29 AM »
DD,
When are you going to cut the arch in the bottom of the carriage cheeks?
Zulu

I am in deep contemplation and procrastination on how to do it.

Offline Zulu

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2477
  • Honor is a gift a man gives himself.
    • Wood & Ironworks
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #113 on: January 30, 2010, 08:01:03 AM »
Are your cheeks parallel or canted to each other?  I think it has to come apart.  Do you have a band saw?
Zulu
Zulu's website
www.jmelledge.com

Online Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12607
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #114 on: January 30, 2010, 08:20:58 AM »
Everything  is bolted together and comes apart. I have access to a band saw.  Thought about bolting them to the face plate and using a turning tool to cutting them.

I was in the junk store yesterday looking for knobs and wheels and saw an old Sears table top scroll saw.  Looked in pretty good shape.  I could make a jig  for turning circles with that.  But then I suppose I could make a smiliar jig for my saber saw.

Better ideas to help me contemplate whill I procrastinate alway appreciated!

I talked to Turkey foot this morning and they are sending me 6 foot of 6 mm and 6 foot of 8 MM hemp in an express mail envelope. 

Offline Josco

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 57
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #115 on: January 30, 2010, 09:32:16 AM »
DD,

Just trace the outline on your cheek pieces and bandsaw them out shy of the line then finish sand them with a drum sander in your drill press. If you never did this practice on a piece of srap first to get the feel. Drums and sleeves come in assorted sizes and are reasonable.

  Joe


Online Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12607
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #116 on: January 30, 2010, 09:48:43 AM »
I had thought about hacking it out with the sabre saw and cleaning it up on the roller of my belt sander.  One of the these drum type deals on the drill press night be more controlable.

Any good sources fo them?

Offline Josco

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 57
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #117 on: January 30, 2010, 09:59:55 AM »
DD,

They're usually sold in sets complete with sanding sleeves of varying grits for about $20.00 or less.
Should find them in Sears, Home Depot, Lowes or even a decent local hardware store. Do a Google search for "Drill press sanding drums"

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00925262000P?vName=Tools&cName=PowerToolAccessories&sName=Drill%20Sharpeners%20&%20Attachments&psid=FROOGLE01&sid=IDx20070921x00003a

    Regards
       Joe

Offline Zulu

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2477
  • Honor is a gift a man gives himself.
    • Wood & Ironworks
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #118 on: January 30, 2010, 10:06:06 AM »
Or, you could get one of these. :P  The drum sander has many interchangeable heads. ;D
Zulu

Zulu's website
www.jmelledge.com

Offline Josco

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 57
Re: New SAMCC barrel
« Reply #119 on: January 30, 2010, 10:15:39 AM »
Zulu,

Nice setup.  I added a Delta oscillating spindle sander to my inventory a few years and love it, unfortunately the table does not tilt.

    Joe