New SAMCC barrel

[Double D]

We have a bunch of guys working metal and making cannons and some might nice ones at that.  What we don't have is any woodworkers who make carriage kits.

Isn't there any one who can set up to rough cut out the basic cheeks, axle and wheels and sell them.  No finish work, just basic cut to shape..  Let the buyer do the hole drilling and and finishing.

Some body with a band saw could set up a cutting jig and rough these out in no time and make some money

[GGaskill]

Real wooden wheels, especially dished ones, are non-trivial exercises in assembly.  And then we have the issues of scale.  And then we have the issue of working for $3 an hour.  I think the people already in the wheel business earn their money already.

[Double D]

Real wooden wheels, especially dished ones, are non-trivial exercises in assembly.  And then we have the issues of scale.  And then we have the issue of working for $3 an hour.  I think the people already in the wheel business earn their money already.

I was think more along the line Naval carriage for the SAMCC gun

[GGaskill]

That would be more practical.

[armorer77]

I will speak to the guy who does my wood working . I assume you want the axles turned , some hand finishing required ? Ed

[Double D]

What I am thinking about is some wood worker to rough out cheeks, axles and truck wheels in a kit form,  mass produce if you will,  say out white or red oak, or some other suitable hardwod.  Just the basic out line, no finishing.  Let the fellows buy the pieces and drill their own holes and do there own finishing.

The axles could be either turned round or  drilled and doweled.  That much would probably have to be done.

I picked this one because there are drawings for a carriage available to fit this gun.

[little seacoast]

 I would be willing to undertake this if there is any interest from forum members. Is there  a fee that would have to be paid to Greybeard for merchandizing or other formality? Pics available of previous carriages on request.

[Double D]

If some one where go into business to sell these type things that would be good for all of us.  I they put them up for here on the board they would have to be a paid sponsor.

I am not looking for having this done for me.  It's just an idea for some one with the skills to make a little side money making these things up and available.  You certainly are not going to get rich.

[Zulu]

If some one where go into business to sell these type things that would be good for all of us.  I they put them up for here on the board they would have to be a paid sponsor.

I am not looking for having this done for me.  It's just an idea for some one with the skills to make a little side money making these things up and available.  You certainly are not going to get rich.

Anyone can PM me anytime if they have any questions.
Zulu

[armorer77]

I spoke to my wood guy , he said he would have a price in a few days . Ed

[Double D]

I am good for tossing out ideas and just sometimes need to be convinced of the impracticality of those ideas.

I really believe, just as there is a market for barrels there is a market for unfinished carriage kits.  Not every one has the metal working tools or the skills to operate them.  But I doubt anyone here lacks to skills to operate a piece or sand paper or a drill motor.

The  Naval carriage is no brainer. If some one cut out the kits and sell them unfinished and keep the price point at or below the cost of a barrel, I think they could sell a lot of them to fellow here.  And, we are not the only market... 

The field carriage carriage is not all that more complex...wheels aside.  I am scheduled to see a couple of wheel makers during this trip and see what i can come up with for wheels.

[Rayfan87]

Would you include any hardware or is it just the wood?

[Soot]

Would you include any hardware or is it just the wood?

I think separate hardware and wood kits would be a good idea to keep the initial cost down.
That way, poverty stricken people like me could build it in stages, or be able to purchase what we cannot make.

[GGaskill]

The major problem I see here is that each carriage has the potential to be a custom build since there are no fixed scales.  It's one thing to band saw out a few cheeks or trails but stuff that needs fixtures so it can be made economically won't work that way.

Not impossible but not a slam dunk.

[armorer77]

Kits will need to be in several sizes for different barrels . How big is your barrel ? Order kit X .

[Double D]

Kits will need to be in several sizes for different barrels . How big is your barrel ? Order kit X .

That is correct, but the barrel maker sponsors here have a catalog of cannons that they make.  Make the carriage kits just for their standard catalog items.  Make the carriage kits to fit their standard catalog barrels and that will increase there sales as well all the carriage makers sales.   

 I use the SAMCC  from  Brooks as an  example only because i am familiar with it.  Just roughed out wood.  No hardware.  All the hardware i used for the gun was standard over the counter hardware stuff.  In the case of the SAMCC gun Brooks can make capsquares, he has a jig.

Yes of course make jigs, thats the key to to this type of project.  I'm sure the original carriages were made that way!

I am talking about mass produced unfinish carriages here.  Let the guys finish it out on there own.       

[irishman]

We are making basic, no frill carriages as seen holding Southpaw's SAMCC below.

I was looking at the videos we took last week and yes indeed Southpaws gun is bigger.

His was made a few years ago. We are continually adding more accessories, altho, slowly. We now offer axles and wheels for his carriage out of either wood or brass. (you can see the preplanned axle holes in his carriage). We are making capsquares now in 5/8" wide brass. Each time we get an order for one, we make at least 25. It makes for slow delivery at first, but, allows for immediate delivery for later orders. DD is right, to make these basic carriage kits feasible, we have to jig up and make multiples. The labor for each is reduced, allowing for competitive prices. We have added some wood working equipment and plan to add more. Before the end of the summer, we plan to have all barrels and all carriages in stock. We did just complete 100 each carriages for the BPFC 'Backyard Cannon Fun' package. They are great gifts to introduce folks to black powder shooting. The SAMCC barrel in 50 and 69 cal are going into production next week, with basic carriages and accessories right behind them.

Anyone who needs a 50 or 69 cal SAMCC barrel and/or carriage for the Postal Shoot, please let me know as soon as possible.
              Michael

[Zulu]

The problem with a kit is that there is no "one size fits all" for the vast majority of barrels.  Even a standard SAMCC barrel in a single caliber can vary enough to make a kit not work.  Our sponsers barrels are extreme works of art and because they are done by hand the variance can be enough to change the design of the carriage.
The absolute best way to ensure a perfect fit is to put the barrel in the hands of the carriage maker.
I'm afraid that if someone had a perfect barrel that didn't fit a perfect carriage that it would always be considered the carriage makers fault.
Zulu

[GGaskill]

Were I to make a carriage kit, I would leave enough material to contain the biggest possible trunnion for the scale but not drill the holes so the customer could drill them to fit, then cut off the excess.  That way the hole would drill true as well as to the proper diameter.  I have drilled half holes and they tend to drift unless I am using the Bridgeport.

[Zulu]

Were I to make a carriage kit, I would leave enough material to contain the biggest possible trunnion for the scale but not drill the holes so the customer could drill them to fit, then cut off the excess.  That way the hole would drill true as well as to the proper diameter.  I have drilled half holes and they tend to drift unless I am using the Bridgeport.

I don't drill half holes.  I place the cheeks top to top, clamp them down and drill one hole that equals two half holes when I seperate the sides.  That way they are both exactly in the same place .
Zulu

[GGaskill]

That's a good idea too.

[Zulu]

Were I to make a carriage kit, I would leave enough material to contain the biggest possible trunnion for the scale but not drill the holes so the customer could drill them to fit, then cut off the excess.  That way the hole would drill true as well as to the proper diameter.  I have drilled half holes and they tend to drift unless I am using the Bridgeport.

I don't drill half holes.  I place the cheeks top to top, clamp them down and drill one hole that equals two half holes when I separate the sides.  That way they are both exactly in the same place .
Zulu

Actually, I can only do it that way when I make parallel sides.  If I taper the sides, I set my work piece at 3 degrees and do the same thing with a sacrificial piece of wood.  Drill the hole, then throw half of it away.
Does that make sense?
Zulu

[GGaskill]

Yes, but when the sides are not parallel, you can rasp the slots to proper alignment without too much difficulty.

[Zulu]

Rasping will make it fit but it certainly will oversize the hole a little.  Maybe I'm too much of a perfectionist.
Zulu

[Double D]

A kit would require fitting and the buyer drills all holes. 

Let the buyer do the fitting and finishing.  The perfection in this is that a buyer could do what he wants or needs for finishing these things out.  I think that roughed out, one size of these could be made to fit several of the various barrels by the buyer.

The other thing this discussion brings up, it would be helful if the Barrel makers offered a barrel in their inventorythat was made too scale.

One of the things I intend to do on this road trip is convince one of the wheel makers to offer scale wheels for field carriages.

[Rayfan87]

The only issue I could see with doing perfect scale is the possibility of ending up with odd caliber measurements.

[Double D]

Yes there is that problem ifyou are looking for 100% true scale.  But bore it is the one measurement that is flexible and could be adjusted to fit a common projectile with the rest of the gun in scale.

[Cat Whisperer]

There is definately a nich for this type of product.

Maybe not the perfect fit for histerical accuracy, but there are a lot of folks that would be able to put it together and make the parts by hand if the major components were there.

Afterall, the originals were made with what folks had to work with - materials, tools and skills.

(I bored my first mortar from a scrap of scaley hot rolled steel - with a 3/4" bit as my boring bar - beer can caliber.  The baseplate was from my 1964 MGB (I put in a '73 engine) and the pieces inbetween from odd scraps of steel laying around the shop.)

[Double D]

Colin Hamlinton of the South African Miniature Cannon Club, Durban, South Africa has inspected  SAMCC No. 001 and approved it as proper cannon for use in SAMCC Matches.

[irishman]

     We are honored to have the 'Approval' of Mr. Hamlinton, directly from the South African Miniature Cannon Club, no less.

     Thank you Sir!

                                                      Michael