Author Topic: 45-70 Handi w/ Barnes TSX or other pointed bullets... (Read 1534 times)

tdn · « **on:** October 31, 2009, 05:31:28 PM »

I am just getting ready to send in a receiver to be fitter with a 32" 45/70 barrel. My dad has been reloading for this for his Marlin lever guns for a while - obviously with rounded, flat nosed or otherwise bullets.

I am wondering, with being a single shot, has anyone tried loading some TSXs or other pointed bullets in a 45/70?
Any thoughts or suggestions to that end?

Thinking of getting a higher B.C. and extending my elk range a bit...

Thanks a lot-

tdn

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** October 31, 2009, 05:53:07 PM »

Yup!

Tim

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 31, 2009, 06:27:32 PM »

THe barnes 300gr Tipped TSX is a pretty decent bullet for that use.

tdn · « **Reply #3 on:** November 01, 2009, 04:30:21 AM »

Awesome, thanks!

Lazermule · « **Reply #4 on:** November 01, 2009, 09:16:11 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on October 31, 2009, 05:53:07 PM

Yup!

Tim

Tim,

What powder are you having your best luck with on that load?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #5 on:** November 01, 2009, 09:18:59 AM »

H4198 is my favorite 45-70 powder.

Tim

http://www.barnesbullets.com/images/45-70RugerNo1Web.pdf

Lazermule · « **Reply #6 on:** November 01, 2009, 12:34:52 PM »

Thanks Tim!

Smokin Joe · « **Reply #7 on:** November 01, 2009, 02:42:32 PM »

Quote

THe barnes 300gr Tipped TSX is a pretty decent bullet for that use.

When did they start making a 300 gn tipped TSX in .458?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** November 01, 2009, 02:52:46 PM »

It's made for the 458 SOCOM, the only place I've seen it is direct from Barnes.

Tim

http://barnesbullets.myshopify.com/products/458-300-gr-ttsx-bt-458-socom

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 01, 2009, 02:56:12 PM »

Yeesh, pricy stuff.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** November 01, 2009, 02:59:12 PM »

Not as pricey as North Forks!!

Tim

http://www.northforkbullets.com/magento/bullets/?bweight=6

workin man · « **Reply #11 on:** November 01, 2009, 03:33:32 PM »

How fast are you guys pushing the Barnes bullets? I sent an e-mail to Barnes a while back regarding their 0.458" spitzers and intended velocities. They said that these are actually designed to be used at 458Win mag velocities and faster (Lott, Weatherby etc) and they would not reliably expand at lever gun velocities. They did say that they would work with Ruger #1 level 45-70 loads though.

Jim

Edit: I see Tim is linking to the #1 loads, so I guess he's pushing them pretty fast. The Hornady 325gr FTX bullet is another option, which will expand at lower velocities.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 01, 2009, 03:45:16 PM »

What exactly are you all planning to shoot with these loads?

tykempster · « **Reply #13 on:** November 01, 2009, 04:02:53 PM »

I bet they would be smokin' from the 45-120. 2800 fps? Would probably shed petals and do nasty stuff to deer. I may try that next year.

Cottonwood · « **Reply #14 on:** November 02, 2009, 03:49:14 AM »

If I get the Ultra Hunter in 45-70, this is the bullet I will be using as I like what I see with the Barnes TSX bullet.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** November 02, 2009, 08:32:46 AM »

Quote from: workin man on November 01, 2009, 03:33:32 PM

The Hornady 325gr FTX bullet is another option, which will expand at lower velocities.

The 325gr FTX is a levergun bullet, Hornday limits velocity to 2150fps max, probably a lot more popular amongst Handiholics than Ruger loads.

Tim

http://www.hornady.com/media/ftx_load_data/45-70_1895-marlin_ftx.pdf

workin man · « **Reply #16 on:** November 02, 2009, 01:34:59 PM »

Actually Tim, I e-mailed Hornady regarding what they recommended as the maximum velocity for the 0.458" FTX bullet. A guy on another forum was wanting to use them in a 458 Win Mag and I thought the same as you that it would be 2200fps or so. I mentioned that I was loading them for a single shot rifle that could handle higher pressures than the Marlin lever guns (and also mentioned the guy wanting to load them for his 458). Hornady responded saying 2400 to 2500fps was their max recommended velocity. The guy with the 458 e-mailed them as well and was given the same answer. Thats easily into 458 Win velocities, no problem loading them to Ruger level 45-70 speeds.

Jim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #17 on:** November 02, 2009, 01:57:35 PM »

Makes one wonder why they don't list 45-70 Ruger or 458 Winmag data for it if that's true!

I've read complaints about the FTX bullet failing in levergun loads, so me thinks someone at Hornady doth not tell the truth. $:-\$

Tim

http://www.hornady.com/ballistics/ftx_reloading_data.php

Swampman · « **Reply #18 on:** November 02, 2009, 02:29:00 PM »

IMO the pointed bullets really offer nothing at .45-70 ranges or any leveraction ranges for that matter. Hornady sales hype is what it is.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 02, 2009, 02:41:36 PM »

What ranges would those be Swamp?

Swampman · « **Reply #20 on:** November 02, 2009, 02:48:36 PM »

At less than 400 yards.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 02, 2009, 02:58:25 PM »

The factory LeverEvolutions do offer more of a flat trajectory than factory loads in most 45-70 ammo. But they accomplished it by using a relatively light bullet (for the caliber) and a fast burning powder that results in a sharp recoil that contributes to barrel rise and effects accuracy when shooting off-hand in longer barreled guns.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #22 on:** November 02, 2009, 03:13:36 PM »

There's a respectable improvement in retained velocity and energy using pointy bullets over a flat nose. The 400gr SSP has a BC of .389 compared to .259 for the 400gr Speer FN, velocity at 400yds is 1478fps with 1913ft/lbs energy and 41.55" drop for the Barnes. The Speer is down to 1203fps and 1288ft/lbs energy and dropped 52.46", both zeroed at 200yds.

Tim

Trajectory for Barnes .458 dia. (.45-70) 400 gr. SSP at 2200 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.389 0.389 0.389 0.389 0.389
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 1360 1360 1360 1360
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0 Cross Range: 0.0 Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2200.0   4298.1   3.91   0.0   -1.7   0.0   0.000000000
25   2148.3   4098.6   3.82   -0.23   0.33   0.0   0.034498500
50   2097.4   3906.4   3.73   -0.93   1.9   0.0   0.069831123
75   2047.1   3721.3   3.64   -2.12   2.97   0.0   0.106026993
100   1997.5   3543.4   3.55   -3.83   3.52   0.0   0.143116247
125   1948.7   3372.3   3.46   -6.08   3.53   0.0   0.181130132
150   1900.6   3208.0   3.38   -8.91   2.96   0.0   0.220101030
175   1853.3   3050.3   3.29   -12.34   1.8   0.0   0.260062351
200   1806.8   2899.1   3.21   -16.4   0.0   0.0   0.301048315
225   1761.1   2754.3   3.13   -21.13   -2.46   0.0   0.343093707
250   1716.3   2615.9   3.05   -26.55   -5.63   0.0   0.386233690
275   1672.4   2483.8   2.97   -32.72   -9.53   0.0   0.430503642
300   1629.4   2357.8   2.89   -39.66   -14.21   0.0   0.475938948
325   1587.4   2237.8   2.82   -47.42   -19.7   0.0   0.522575059
350   1546.4   2123.7   2.75   -56.04   -26.06   0.0   0.570446869
375   1506.5   2015.5   2.68   -65.57   -33.33   0.0   0.619588053
400   1467.7   1913.0   2.61   -76.06   -41.55   0.0   0.670030689

Trajectory for Speer .458 dia. 400 gr. Flat Nose at 2200 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.259 0.259 0.259 0.259 0.259
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 1300 1300 1300 1300
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0 Cross Range: 0.0 Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2200.0   4298.1   3.91   0.0   -1.7   0.0   0.000000000
25   2122.7   4001.2   3.77   -0.23   0.49   0.0   0.034706630
50   2046.9   3720.6   3.64   -0.94   2.19   0.0   0.070687968
75   1972.8   3456.0   3.50   -2.17   3.38   0.0   0.108011449
100   1900.3   3206.7   3.37   -3.96   4.0   0.0   0.146748213
125   1829.5   2972.4   3.25   -6.35   4.03   0.0   0.186973029
150   1760.6   2752.6   3.13   -9.39   3.41   0.0   0.228763388
175   1693.6   2547.2   3.01   -13.13   2.08   0.0   0.272198391
200   1628.8   2355.8   2.89   -17.63   0.0   0.0   0.317357687
225   1566.1   2178.0   2.78   -22.95   -2.9   0.0   0.364321015
250   1505.7   2013.4   2.67   -29.15   -6.69   0.0   0.413166251
275   1447.9   1861.7   2.57   -36.32   -11.43   0.0   0.463966429
300   1392.8   1722.7   2.47   -44.51   -17.22   0.0   0.516787338
325   1340.5   1595.8   2.38   -53.83   -24.12   0.0   0.571684855
350   1291.4   1480.9   2.29   -64.36   -32.23   0.0   0.628699792
375   1245.5   1377.7   2.21   -76.19   -41.64   0.0   0.687851772
400   1203.3   1285.7   2.14   -89.42   -52.46   0.0   0.749134160

Swampman · « **Reply #23 on:** November 02, 2009, 03:16:55 PM »

Still a moot point for me. The heavier TSX bullets aren't designed for the .45-70.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 02, 2009, 03:22:48 PM »

I don't disagree with the benefits of better bullet profiles, I just prefer the heavier Lyman 458658 or the Saeco 21A.

Swampman · « **Reply #25 on:** November 02, 2009, 03:26:46 PM »

I prefer the Remington 405.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #26 on:** November 02, 2009, 03:29:33 PM »

Pretty mild load in those Swamp, if you mean factory. Ever shot hotter? The Saeco 21A at 1800 fps gives me a flatter trajectory.

Swampman · « **Reply #27 on:** November 02, 2009, 03:32:38 PM »

I just can see any need for going over 1400fps. I like hard cast lead bullets too. I broke the wrist of my first 1895. I don't want to do that again.

JerryKo · « **Reply #28 on:** November 03, 2009, 09:39:57 AM »

I can say the FTX will completly come apart at 2400fps fired into a wet box of paper at 50yds. But I hardly think an animal shot at that distance would run. That box of paper was DRT!

Jerry

Davemuzz · « **Reply #29 on:** November 03, 2009, 09:56:46 AM »

Here is the FTX shot from my Marlin 1895XLR (Yeah....I know this is an H&R forum.....but I do own an H&R!!!....it's a 22 mag.....but I own one!!!). This is a 4 shot group at 100 yards. I was zeroing in my Williams peep sight.

Then once I got it zeroed in, I made some "click" adjustments to my Williams peep (I have the target model) and this is a 4 shot group at 200 yards.

This is the FTX traveling at a very consistent 1700fps across my chronograph. Of course, I'm shooting it from a bench.

For whitetail, this will be plenty of punch.

BTW, I have shot this load out to 300 yards. I've gotton two of the three to touch, but that third "flyer" is about 3/4" away from the first two. Such a disappointment! I can't use it on crows!!!

Dave