Author Topic: shot gun (Read 5028 times)

DEPUTY · « **Reply #30 on:** September 03, 2004, 05:17:00 AM »

let's see that one justified :roll:

twodollarpistol · « **Reply #31 on:** September 03, 2004, 09:10:42 AM »

Quote from: DEPUTY

let's see that one justified :roll:

Well...Your Honer. Its like this. I was just standing there cleaning my fingernails when he came running toward me and ran into my bayonet..........14 times ! :-D :-D :-D

BattleRifleG3 · « **Reply #32 on:** September 03, 2004, 09:42:53 AM »

Well part of the bayonet's purpose is retention of the gun. A lot harder to grab something away from someone if it's sharp.

Considering that misses are possible and that sometimes shots don't incapacitate instantly, a bayonet is a way to keep distance from an attacker.

Savage · « **Reply #33 on:** September 03, 2004, 01:59:16 PM »

You'll get fewer "one stick stops"---------ah, can't go on with this!
Still think you're yanking my chain.
Savage

BattleRifleG3 · « **Reply #34 on:** September 03, 2004, 07:25:13 PM »

Well I wouldn't expect an attacker to pull an Uruk Hai or Shinzon move and pull himself toward me using the object that's impaling him.

DEPUTY · « **Reply #35 on:** September 04, 2004, 01:00:38 AM »

That would be yout fault then for letting him get that close and for missing! Well ok we all miss for time to time but! still no way i would another 10 inches to the muzzle end of my protection gun in my home sorry no go here!

Savage · « **Reply #36 on:** September 04, 2004, 05:43:51 AM »

I was kinda thinking that if I'd failed to stop an assailant with 8 rds of buckshot---------I might consider transitioning to my sidearm--------
Make that running shoes-------------!!
Savage

BattleRifleG3 · « **Reply #37 on:** September 06, 2004, 02:54:38 PM »

Ok, say you have six rounds, say you have three assailants, and one or more of them are on enough drugs to keep them going while mortally wounded. It's not all that far a cry to see hand-to-hand. I'm not saying everyone needs a bayonet on their shotgun or they'll never survive an intrusion, but it really doesn't seem all that silly. The bayonet basically makes up for the limited capacity of the shotgun. I choose a shotgun over a rifle for the obvious reasons, and the bayonet on the shotgun since anything done with a shotgun will be relatively close range.

DEPUTY · « **Reply #38 on:** September 06, 2004, 04:45:22 PM »

Oh wait i love this part!
what are the reasons to choose a shotgun over a rifle for the home!
and yes it is a baited question cause i have the answers to this one on hand and ready! better yet.
rilfes pros say a 223.
faster follow up shots-lower recoil
better round capacity
low penetration factor but dumps it energy quicker and more devasting with right ammo,
easier for smaller frame woman to use accurate hostage rescue shot if needed, better against hardend targets ie body armor, shall i go on. i have pages of it! when we choose to go to m-4 over our old mp-5s we did a lot of homework and counsalted some the best in the buisness! and found our answers! and even showed it in real homes with testing! houses were slated for demo we got to test ammo in them on the walls and the like! belive me a 223 is much better house gun than a 12 gauge.

Savage · « **Reply #39 on:** September 07, 2004, 02:03:23 AM »

Amen, Deputy!
Savage

Hollywood · « **Reply #40 on:** September 25, 2004, 09:27:21 PM »

Could you explain that a bit more, Deputy? Or point me to the studies? I've heard it many ways - that 9mm penetrates more than .223, and now that 12 gauge (buckshot I assume) penetrates more than .223. Over-penetration is something I'm concerned about, so lately I've had some Glaser Safety slugs stashed for a 9mm Beretta. But its a process of constant refinement.

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Hollywood

DEPUTY · « **Reply #41 on:** September 26, 2004, 10:04:31 AM »

I have a lot of stuff on paper! if you due a search for 223 penetration/or 223 for home defense you will find a lot!
i know this through testing for are dept the 62 grain winchester psp is the choice round! in most 1x9 to 1x7 twist guns! i will see what else i might have stored on this thing !

IntrepidWizard · « **Reply #42 on:** September 26, 2004, 10:10:59 AM »

Site how many time Bad Guys wear Armour Deputy.I had rather keep pumping #1,#4 buck and I know even with armour they will slow down and as I keep pumping and moving in my own home at night they are dead.

DEPUTY · « **Reply #43 on:** September 26, 2004, 01:46:29 PM »

well i know of 3 to be exact! were bad guys were using armour! also one were the subject had a set 2 yes two yellow pages books straped to his chest with duct tape!, and another that was wearing a chunk of steel plate in a backpack he had around his chest! comment please do i have facts to back my statments as wel as enough hands on as well! yes a shotgun will do it as in the past! but i wil tell you that a 223 carbine loaded with the right ammo will do it faster and better and gives you more options, lesser recoil and faster follow up shots! and better chance of hostage rescue shots which have become a real issue in light of a few home invasions! were a family member is taken as a tool! also the carbine has better ammo capacity easier to use one handed as your say running and pumping through your house! easier to clear a malfunction, you arent as likley to short stroke a rifle like a pump gun say if you are wounded! and a carbine is much easier to reload

BattleRifleG3 · « **Reply #44 on:** September 26, 2004, 06:11:27 PM »

When I said the reasons were obvious for a shotgun over a carbine, I guess I meant that we probably already knew the tradeoffs there. I agree that a carbine is a fine weapon for home defense and has its advantages over the shotgun, though I think the shotgun has its own.

If you want to use a carbine, I have no disapproving opinions. I just think that a bayonet is a good complement to a shotgun in a home defense situation. And of course there are reasons not to have one as well as to have one, but the reasons to have one aren't bogus, just need to be weighed by each person making the decision of what to have ready to defend his home.

DEPUTY · « **Reply #45 on:** September 26, 2004, 07:35:57 PM »

yeap they each have there own merits! and a bayonet has not one in a homedefense situation. you have just taken your 20 inch barreled gun and added 10-12 inches to it! making it 30 inches! little to long for a house gun, i had a chance to talk to a few other trainers about this in private forum, they all between 6 of us could not come up with one single good reason other than looking good! i have thought this out and even but the bayonet on my ar and still could not figure it out! why it would be good. this is not a slam on your choice of gear the shotgun is fine, but not the bayonet

BattleRifleG3 · « **Reply #46 on:** September 26, 2004, 07:57:51 PM »

Welp, my bayonet is only about 8" or so (It's an M9 copy.) I wholeheartedly respect the opinions of those who've been around a lot longer and have more education and experience in this matter than I.

Here's perhaps an odd factor in its favor in my case: My first firearm experience was in musketry. That doesn't mean I'm predisposed to make every gun I have as musket-like as possible, but it does mean that I am completely comfortable with very large arms with bayonets attached. Perhaps I overestimate the possibility of going hand to hand, but if one did go hand to hand with a shotgun, I couldn't see how it wouldn't be better with a bayonet than without.

Of course I wholeheartedly hope that I don't end up gaining any such experience in the rest of my life.

Savage · « **Reply #47 on:** September 27, 2004, 04:12:06 AM »

Bayonets were a useful tool on muskets 150 yrs ago. You basically had one shot and the weapon became a lance/club. With the evolution of the battle rifle into what is is today, the bayonet kept getting shorter until it evolved into a knife that you could attach to the rifle. If you feel the bayonet is a useful tool, then by all means "Fix Bayonets"! I keep a mag loaded with 28rds of "Ballistic Tips" in my AR so that I may resolve problems beyond contact distance. For what it's worth, the ballistic tip .223 rarely penetrate the second interior wall. Most of the fragments are found just beyond the first wall. OO buck usual penetrates at least three sheetrock walls. Handgun rounds (9mm & up) penetrate about 30-40% more. These are tests and actual shootings I have witnessed. I have several combat shotguns, but keep an AR handy as primary. The only shotgun you'll find in my unit is a beanbag gun.
Savage

rockbilly · « **Reply #48 on:** September 27, 2004, 03:18:30 PM »

Anybody had any experience with the Norinco 98? I recently picked up one from an individual trying to sell it at a gun show. I thought $100. was a good price for something to throw in my travel trailer and serve as a defensive weapon, and not be a great loss if someone stole it.

It is a pump, has rifle sights, an 18 inch barrel, holds 6 rounds of 2 3/4 shells. I fired five rounds of rifle slugs and several 00s and a few bird shot through it. It works well and is accurate with the slugs.

DEPUTY · « **Reply #49 on:** September 27, 2004, 03:57:08 PM »

i had a norinco copy of the 870 rem with ghostrings got it for a 150 bucks ran well was very accurate! it had trouble with hte welds on the action bars! thats the only negative i could find

TimWieneke · « **Reply #50 on:** September 27, 2004, 06:54:35 PM »

I have an aside question. From what I've read, conventional thinking seems to be that with a shotgun, you don't really aim - you point it in someone's general direction. Dealing with close quarters - if you're using shot and not slugs, how much does a pattern really spread?

What I'm wondering out loud here is - on Urban defense rifles, it's common to see a light and laser sight's mounted on the forend. Is it not unreasonable to start thinking of a shotgun with not only a light mounted on the forend, but a laser sight as well? I think it would certainly help the owner with slugs or a pistol-gripped shotgun get on target quicker....

Tim

DEPUTY · « **Reply #51 on:** September 28, 2004, 03:52:50 AM »

Depending on your choke and load the spread is different for each figure about a few inches per yard! lights have there place for sure on all weapons

Savage · « **Reply #52 on:** September 28, 2004, 04:00:49 AM »

If I were using a shotgun, I would want a white light mounted on it for sure. With a little tuning it would be easy to align the flashlight, and adjust the beam where the center of the beam represents the aiming point. That's the way my AR is set up. Still wouldn't hurt to have a laser along with the white light.
Savage

Wrong Way · « **Reply #53 on:** September 28, 2004, 05:11:20 AM »

I had a Mossberg with a short barrel and really liked it. Bought a Rem. 870 for duck hunting. Had heard a lot about them. After one hunting season with it I couldn't say that it was any better than my Mossberg. In fact I got rid of it not long after that.
Unless one chooses to live in the city, packed in like a sardine, I can't think of a better defensive weapon made. When the dogs bark at night, it's a comfort to have when I go out to check the outbuildings. Don't think I'd consider it if I lived in an apartment in town. (personal choice)In any case, if someone were posing a dire threat to me I'd pick the shotgun over a handgun anytime.

IntrepidWizard · « **Reply #54 on:** September 28, 2004, 05:22:17 AM »

At night ,no light,your muzzle flash is bad enough,just about everybody shoot high at night,aim at crotch.waist level.Women have a tendance to shoot high all the time---generally.Shoot move and pump and shoot it is your house ,your territory and they do not know the obstacles.

DEPUTY · « **Reply #55 on:** September 28, 2004, 06:58:37 AM »

Uh no i dont think so! aim. com and hit wear you are aiming at! period not the crotch! if they are in your house already they have the advantage they are already there! and do you know where? how many? nope yah dont, comming out of a dead sleep having to defend is not a good thing to do! hold steady, let them come to you! and then you suprise them when they step in too a fatal funnel of the doorway of the bedroom, unless you must absolutley get to the kids in another room! stay put! dont go running and gunning in your own home. the flash blast isnt that bad! in a couple of night shoots there have no effects of shooting high! having been in low light shooting classes and teaching them we have even shot with sims guns into whitelights shinned at us as bad guys (surefires) and still scored good hits on bg and good guys, it inst impossible the flash effects of shooting in low light to total darkness can be a concern! practice it and you will win! it isnt that blinding as you think

rockbilly · « **Reply #56 on:** September 28, 2004, 04:11:51 PM »

Sometime it just doesn't matter what you have for home defense, you just get caught with your pants down.

That's what happen to my son last night. He was in bed when his wife came home from visiting her mother at 1:45 AM. He got up and let his dogs out, and they went back to bed. Sometime between that time and 6 AM, someone broke in his home and stole his wallet, his wife's rings and her purse. He said whoever (?) took the wallet off his chest of drawers in the bedroom, and her purs and rings off the nite stand, both are in their bed room. He had a loaded pistol on his nite stand, but neither of them woke up. My daughter-in-law said she heard the dogs growling, but they never barked.

I told him today that he should get another dog, one that barks like crazy. I still can't understand how someone could sleep while their back door is being worked on with a pry bar. He lives in a really nice area, but the cops said there had been at least ten such break-in in the area in the past week. They seem to think it was professionals.

DEPUTY · « **Reply #57 on:** September 28, 2004, 04:51:48 PM »

Duct tape on the crowbar is a another trick we have run in too!

DEPUTY · « **Reply #58 on:** September 29, 2004, 07:01:10 AM »

and people thought i was paronid when had a solid core wood door put in for my bedroom with locking deadbolts on it and a metal entry moldings just like a front door on a house! 3 inch screws and reinforced jam's

twodollarpistol · « **Reply #59 on:** September 30, 2004, 01:07:12 AM »

A guy I know who lives alone has an outdoor type motion detector light mounted outside his bedroom above the door. It has two sockets. In one is a flood light bulb, and in the other an adaptor with a gosh awful loud buzzer plugged into it. He turns the thing on when he retires for the night and if anything or anyone moves near his bedroom they get the light in there eyes, which should blind them and also make them easy to be seen, and also scare the begeibers out of them by the buzzer, which also wakes the dead two counties over. This is pretty low tech but seems effective enough. He just need to remember to turn it off before he exits his bedroom in the morning. Or at least visit the bathroom first.