Author Topic: 35 Whelen--No fire issues (Read 969 times)

jim36 · « **on:** November 02, 2009, 07:30:29 AM »

After reading numerous issues concerning the "No fire" problems, with the 35 W, some of the shooters are having problems with some of the 200 that were sold here in Mississippi. To top this off, the Thompson Encores are also have this same problem.
It is hard to understand this because the 35 is basically the 30 06 case necked up to 35 cal., and as I see it the shoulder is the same. There are very few problems with the '06 in either the Handi or the Thompson. In fact, my '06 is one of the best shooting Handies that I own.
The reason for this post is, my frame is and has been at Remington for some time now, waiting for the 35 to be fit to my frame. Having 2nd. thoughts.

Just wanted to throw this out to get you thoughts on, why the problem. Is this headspace or ammo? I just finished rebarreling a Savage in 35 w. and it doesn't fire either. So this is just food for thought.
Tim, would you please give me you thoughts on this problem.
This post is like a swimming pool, so everyone feel free to jump in.
Jim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** November 02, 2009, 07:43:24 AM »

As I've said many times before, I think it's a combination of issues, a little too much headspace, bad Rem 9½ primers which are also used in the Rem factory ammo, and the minuscule shoulder.

Tim

http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/aicompare.cgi?sn=fWZRVcvVwR&loadset=41&xxglbl=1

Spanky · « **Reply #2 on:** November 02, 2009, 08:36:11 AM »

It's not only TC's and H&R's. My Ruger M77 Whelen has FTF issues with Remington ammo. $:-\$
I bought the rifle brand new and have had FTF problems since. I changed to a heavier firing pin spring and it helped some but it still FTF sometimes.

Spanky

Tractorsaw1 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 02, 2009, 09:03:18 AM »

I bought a used 35 whelen barrel from a member here. Was made full aware of too deep head space of .017 when purchased. Luckily i was able to remove this when i fit it to my frame. So far 1 trigger pull on a remington factory round & 1 boom. I will sight it in this weekend & report back good or bad.

D Humbarger · « **Reply #4 on:** November 02, 2009, 01:22:03 PM »

If you reload you can set the bullet to touch the rifling. This will hold the case back against the breach face upon firing thus moving the shoulder forward & correcting any headspace issue. don't do this with a hot load because you don't want a high pressure spike. just remember that when you resize to stay off the new shoulder that you formed.

al_bum · « **Reply #5 on:** November 02, 2009, 01:43:39 PM »

+1 with what D Humbarger said. 11 out of 20 rounds on the first box of Rem factory fired through my rifle and that was the last box of factory I've shot through it. Since getting my dies set right and using Fed 210 primers, function has been 100% out of about 700 rounds so far.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** November 02, 2009, 02:10:29 PM »

The best method of loading ammo for a chamber with too much headspace is to neck up to .375" or .400", then partially neck size the ammo to form a false shoulder, it's listed the FAQs in the Handloading section. Another method for factory ammo is to modify the extractor to hold the case against the standing breech, you have to slim the extractor post down a little, then silver solder or epoxy a shim to the front side of the extractor post that will hold the round against the standing breech, I've done both on rimless and rimmed cartridges, they both work very well.

Tim

wganz · « **Reply #7 on:** November 03, 2009, 03:10:10 PM »

The .356 Winchester would have been a better choice. $:-\$

poncaguy · « **Reply #8 on:** November 03, 2009, 03:40:30 PM »

I can't understand why my early 35 Whelen has never had any failures with any ammo...............I must be blessed...

JerryKo · « **Reply #9 on:** November 05, 2009, 07:38:19 AM »

Just wanted to say I went from 25% FTF with factory Rem ammo to zero with my partially neck sized winchester primed reloads.

MUCH HAPPIER NOW.

Jerry

mannyrock · « **Reply #10 on:** November 05, 2009, 07:42:15 AM »

Hmm, I know that this sounds crazy, but when I buy something brand new THAT DOESN'T WORK, I take it back and get my danged money back!

These are suppose to be reliable, working rifles, not "gun kits." :-)

Best,

Mannyrock

rex6666 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 06, 2009, 10:24:27 AM »

Quote from: mannyrock on November 05, 2009, 07:42:15 AM

Hmm, I know that this sounds crazy, but when I buy something brand new THAT DOESN'T WORK, I take it back and get my danged money back!

These are suppose to be reliable, working rifles, not "gun kits." :-)

Best,

Mannyrock

Another 500 post and you will begin to see the pattern, has nothing
to do with new guns, Just handiholics at work

LONGTOM · « **Reply #12 on:** November 06, 2009, 04:40:37 PM »

Mannyrock:
Like I said before in another post about the 35W, I really don't think it is so much a head space problem as much as a primer problem.
My 35W RMEF and my Handi both have FTF with factory Rem 200gr round nose corelocks.
My hunting buddy has a Ruger #1 and a custom barrel bolt action (I forget which brand) and his 2 guns have the same problem with the same ammo from the same box.
I took some of the FTF factory ammo and pulled the bullets, saved the powder.
I switched the primers to Win LR primers and put the same powder and bullet back in as near as I could to the same seated depth and we tried them in all 3 guns without a single FTF.
That is what leads me to beleave that it is a primer problem with Rem primers.
I have had the same problem with Rem primers in other calibers also in the past but not as bad as the 35Ws.
I still use some Rem ammo but not much.

I know my small test was not a 100% guarantee but it has convinced my friend and me!

LONGTOM

JerryKo · « **Reply #13 on:** November 07, 2009, 12:25:00 AM »

Im with you LONGTOM. The six remaining that I didnt even try have also been broken down and deprimed, and will be re-primed with Winchester primers. Too bad about the primers. I still have over 1k of them and hate to use them anymore. I have also had ftf's in other cals using these 9 1/2's. Has remington ever recalled or made any statements about this. I cant recollect ever reading anything from remmy.

Jerry

billy_56081 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 07, 2009, 12:35:13 AM »

If in your Savage, you are having FTF after a rebarrel, check the head space and it is quite easy to ajust.

jim36 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 07, 2009, 03:14:30 AM »

Billy The Savage needed a quicker lock time. Replaced the firing pin spring with one that was 1 inch longer. This made it work perfect. Going to zero it in today.
Jim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** November 07, 2009, 04:53:02 AM »

Quote from: JerryKo on November 07, 2009, 12:25:00 AM

Has remington ever recalled or made any statements about this. I cant recollect ever reading anything from remmy.

Jerry

Remington asks the ammo be returned to them, this is from their online help.

Tim

http://remington.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/104/kw/ammunition/r_id/166
What should I do with misfired ammunition?

When there is a concern regarding our ammunition, we request that the ammunition be sent to our ammunition facility for evaluation and testing. To ensure proper shipping, we suggest the following:

Please package the ammunition in a secure carton or box. The package should be stuffed to prevent movement. Include your name, full address, phone number, and a description of the problem.

Shipment must be via U.P.S. only. For UPS, please mark the package "ORM-D" for Other Restricted Materials-D. Draw a box around the “ORM-D” letters and write “Cartridges, Small Arms” above the box.

Mail to:
Product Services
Remington Arms Company, Inc.
2592 AR - Highway 15N
P. O. Box 400
Lonoke, AR 72086-0400

We will contact you once our evaluation and testing have been completed.

JerryKo · « **Reply #17 on:** November 07, 2009, 06:28:48 AM »

Thanks Tim.

Sounds like its cheaper to just recycle it like we have been. Just think if they decide its NOT defective....then you are out the brass too! I would'nt mind sending in every failed primer with the lot# on the sleeve though!

Jerry

jeepmann1948 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 07, 2009, 01:24:51 PM »

Has anyone reported any failures with other Remington Factory loads?I do not shoot anything but 7-08 120 hp made by Remington and they work so well I don't reload very many 7-08's.I was also wondering how all the defective large rifle primers ended up only in the 35 Whelen cartridges?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** November 07, 2009, 01:39:38 PM »

There have been many complaints in the TC forums and others in general on Rem ammo and primers, I've had way too many 9½ failures myself, none on ammo yet tho, but I haven't bought much factory ammo in the last few years either. Not just rifle ammo/primers either, there's a 2 page thread in the H&R shotgun forum involving Rem ammo misfires.

Tim

Quote from: tanoose on November 05, 2006, 02:30:16 PM

I can honestly say that going back 10-15 years ago me and a buddy of mine were having lots of misfires from remington factory express ammo in 30/06 so we stayed clear of it and mostly reloaded and started using winchester brand but about five years ago when wal mart and k mart came to our area we started using it again
why not for $9.99 a box compared to $17 at your local shop. and i must say we have bought alot of factory ammo to try 25/06 , 30/06 45/70 308 and more and not only have i not had any problems but with all calibers in remington they have tested more accurate in my rifles then federal winchester and hornady. to the high energy nosler partitions of federal and those go for like $25 .00 a box . I know reccommend reminmgton factory express ammo to everyone .

Quote from: poncaguy on September 18, 2006, 05:42:37 PM

I had misfires with the Remington 209's last year in my Omega and Encore. Using the new Winchester 777 this year, no problems at all...............

Quote from: poncaguy on September 18, 2006, 05:42:37 PM

I had misfires with the Remington 209's last year in my Omega and Encore. Using the new Winchester 777 this year, no problems at all...............

LONGTOM · « **Reply #20 on:** November 07, 2009, 01:48:15 PM »

In the past I have had FTFs with some REM 270 and 30-06 ammo, just not as many as the 35W.
I have only ever had one FTF in over 40 years with all the other brands and calibers combined.
This does not count 22 rim fires, have had plenty of those in the past.
Mostly from weak firing pin strikes.
The REM 35W ammo has had as many as seven out of a single box.
As stated, I still use factory REM ammo, just not in my deer rifles.

LONGTOM

jim36 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 07, 2009, 02:50:30 PM »

I know that this is not the Savage forum, but I am really in a dither with todays range report. Of course it's the 35 whelen. But I will tell you for certain it was not the Remington ammo. All of the Rem ammo functioned flawless. Good moa also. The problem with the ftf was with my homade 35 w brass. I ran some 06 brass thru my 35 w dies, loader them up with 200 gr core lokt bullets. Six out of 8 fired with no problem. Two would not fire after trying each a couple of times. I was using WW primers, cause that's all I could find. I gotta a problem here somewhere. I would like to be able to depend on my reloads,but not at this point. The WW primers have been working in all my other rifles. Give me some sort of answer or something positive that I need to do. I noticed an earlier post that Tim and others talked about partial neck size. Let me know your thoughts.

Jim