Author Topic: Old eyes / open sights, help! Dee? Anyone? (Read 1717 times)

AtlLaw · « **on:** November 02, 2009, 08:16:33 AM »

It seems I've got back into shooting open sights after thinking my eyes had gone to far south for them 20 odd years ago. As I remember, it had something to do with me not qualifying with as high a score as I always did on annual qualification the last few years I policed. Then again it might have been because we switched over to semi-autos from the S&W M10 I carried for so many years... I dunno. $:-\$

Anyway, thanks to GBO I seem to be shooting more rifles (and handguns) with open sights then I have in many years. I killed a nice 6 pt last week with my M73, but he was VERY close and I had missed a 4 pt at 30 yards with that rifle a few days before.

I figured out that part of the problem was that 'scopes had made me sloppy in my game shooting technique and hopefully I've have corrected that failing. But my eyes are another matter.

My M73 and 336 have tang sights and my M94 has a peep sight with a fire sight front sight. The M73 has a large ivory bead in front. The 336 has the issue front sight.

I lost sight of the 336's standard bead against a deer a few years ago; the 73's ivory bead stood out plainly in dim light against the 6 pt. last week; I haven't had a chance to evaluate the firesight yet.

The insert disk on the 73's tang sight seemed to restrict my the field of view and make things "fuzzy." After missing the 4 pt I removed the disk which made the tang sight more of a ghost ring. That seemed to work well for me.

I just ordered a M92 in 44 mag with a 24 inch barrel. I'd like to leave the iron sights on it, but may have to go to a tang sight on that rifle also.

This is directed at Dee since I've read of his afinity for, and ability with, his M94 and I'm sure he has run into my situation in his teaching years. But anyone else can feel free to chime in also!

I think we're about the same age. I wear 1.25 power reading glasses for close work. Aside from practice, do you have any suggestions for maximiseing my accuracy potential shooting opensights? Both for me and my equipment; the rifle's sights that is!

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #1 on:** November 02, 2009, 08:42:24 AM »

If you wear safety glasses ( you should) then check out the merit attachment that goes on the glasses . It allows you to see the sights better as it closes down your field of view . I shot with a guy who used it and it helped him alot .

gru · « **Reply #2 on:** November 02, 2009, 09:34:20 AM »

I have adjusted my sight pattern over the years to go with my old eyes with decent success or I'm just lucky

oldyardog · « **Reply #3 on:** November 02, 2009, 10:47:58 AM »

I started shooting again after I retired. I am 66 + ( older than dirt acording to my grand kids). I also use reading glasses. This past year I ended up with 4 lever actions. I put the Williams 5D sight on 3 of them, the Puma will get a Skinner I think. I am good to go for deer up to 100 yards. I will try to keep my shooting closer than that tho. I also have a CZ 452 with a peep blade in the factory site that amazed me when I first used it. It is a lot of fun to show up the younger guys by doing it the old school way.

Oldyardog

Hodr · « **Reply #4 on:** November 02, 2009, 11:01:35 AM »

Texas hog gun, Winchester 94 Trapper 357mag Buffalo Bore with a ghost ring a front firesight. Practice a little and the gun will seem to shoot itself. My eyes are in thier mid 60s and it works better than a scope for me. It is also a very fast way to shoulder and shoot.

blindhari

zoner · « **Reply #5 on:** November 02, 2009, 12:05:58 PM »

i'm shooting two rifles with iron sights,both peep sights.....i personally shoot these sights much better when i use a post-type front sight. It's much easier for me to index elevation with a flat-topped front sight......i pick the spot i want to hit and put the top of the front sight right where i want it to go and it works for me(i wear the reading glasses too)

Blackhawk44 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 02, 2009, 12:14:59 PM »

Zoner is right. Check on either a brass blade from Skinner Sights or a white stripe ramped blade from XS. You'll be amazed.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #7 on:** November 02, 2009, 04:14:43 PM »

Good stuff here guys!

I gather from those of you who have been shooting open sights that those of us getting a little long in the tooth can still shoot respectably if we carefully select open sights that fit our particular need.

Seems like peep sights - maybe ghost ring - and hi vis blade front sights are favored. But I tell ya, that big white bead sure stood out in the dim light 10 minutes before the end of legal shooting time!

Maybe I better forget the idea of using the iron sight on the 92 and have a tang put on... $:-\$

squirrellluck · « **Reply #8 on:** November 02, 2009, 04:51:19 PM »

I'm listening too! I was thinking my barrels were just getting shorter. Gonna have to try one them new fangled peep sights.

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #9 on:** November 02, 2009, 06:16:49 PM »

I've got peeps on a couple and Firesights on my 16" 454 Puma that seems to line up great when I shoulder it. I've heard so much good about Skinner sights, I'm gonna have to try them. Want to replace the safety on the bolt of the 92's that have 'em, that's what John Browning put the half-cock notch on it for!

DP

Jacko · « **Reply #10 on:** November 03, 2009, 10:15:08 AM »

I put a Skinner front blade and a Lyman Tang on my 24" barreled .357 Rossi and hunt with the aperture removed - the rifle is amazing , running shots etc are no problem - I could not believe the differance it made to my shooting hunting or on the target range .

regards Jacko

Dirt Bag · « **Reply #11 on:** November 03, 2009, 11:02:49 AM »

Hi 'Law;
Bet you could see the sights on this one just fine..... Again, the above mentioned ghost ring and fire sight. They work.

Have a good one;
D.B.

Dee · « **Reply #12 on:** November 03, 2009, 12:19:08 PM »

AtlLaw, you have probably read a dozen times that I have been shooting the same Model 94 Winchester 3030 for 51 years, and that my father had bought it new before giving it to me.
About 38 years ago I learned that an aperture sight was nothing more than an un-magnified scope, and some outstanding groups could be shot with one. Thus, I put a Lyman 66 aperture sight on my 51 year old Model 94 about 38 years ago. I also have a Model 92 Winchester clone in 357 magnum, that I have an IDENTICAL Lyman aperture sight on.
I also replaced the front bead sights on both, with a off white striped post front sight. Both are sighted in the same, and with the 3030 I can consistantly hit the bottoms of water filled 1 gallon milk jugs at 280 yards. That's about a 7" square your lookin at with the jug laying on it's side. With the 357 mag, I last year killed a coyote at 160 yards with one shot fired, and thru the shoulder.
Over the last 59 years due to my past profession I have had the opportunity to own and shoot about everything there is out there, but the lever guns with the aperture sights put the huntin back in the hunt, and your skill level in all areas sharpens back up, because you have to ADAPT AND OVER COME CONDITIONS, BOTH "PHYISCALLY" AND TERRAIN WISE.
I have a tricked out M4 with a scope and backup sights, but it sits on the bench MOST OF THE TIME. The 357 mag get by far the most carry time, even if it never gets out of the jeep.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #13 on:** November 04, 2009, 04:05:10 AM »

Quote from: AtlLaw on November 02, 2009, 04:14:43 PM

Seems like peep sights - maybe ghost ring - and hi vis blade front sights are favored. But I tell ya, that big white bead sure stood out in the dim light 10 minutes before the end of legal shooting time!

You've got it bud. Those plastic fantastic sights work real well, are often TOO bright, when you don't really need any help, but for very low light conditions they just fade away. Under those conditions you can't beat a big white bead up front and a large aperture, at least 1/8" at the rear.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #14 on:** November 04, 2009, 05:50:10 AM »

It sure does seem like we have a consensus of opinion here! Tang or peep sight combined with a high vis front post. That's good enough for me!

I'm going to equip my open sight rifles accordingly.

Hummmm $:-\$ I may replace the fire sight on the 94... always did wonder what you did when there was no more fire...

But that big white dot is cool!

$:-\$ sure does cover a lot of the target though...

maybe the post with a white insert will work better... $:-\$

Oh well!

another experiment!

Dirt Bag · « **Reply #15 on:** November 04, 2009, 12:15:32 PM »

You got something there with the white bead in bad light. When I ordered the glow dot for my 94, the gunsmith said ..(you don't wanna know what he said). Got a aftermarket sight hood and cut a slot in the top of it to let in light -- didn't work. Guess that's why we see so many rifles with the hoods missing. Think I'll get a white ramp or post, press it in and see how it looks compared to the green glow dot.
Dee,..... I only been around here for about a year.... and so far, you never fail to make damn good sense.
D.B.

Dee · « **Reply #16 on:** November 04, 2009, 01:09:13 PM »

Thanks Dirt Bag, I paid dearly for that good sense.
AtlLaw, the off white narrow stripe up the middle of the front post sight is the best of both worlds. Good light, the sight acts as a normal post, with the luxury of that thin off white stripe running the bottom to top of the post. With that stripe you can draw a very fine bead on your target. It is dead center of the post, and shows up in low light also.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #17 on:** November 04, 2009, 02:50:43 PM »

Quote from: Dee on November 04, 2009, 01:09:13 PM

the off white narrow stripe up the middle of the front post sight is the best of both worlds.

It sure sounds like it Dee. And I know what I'm gonna put on the 92!

mauser98us · « **Reply #18 on:** November 04, 2009, 04:13:25 PM »

Old eyes,open sights? giterdone. I.m 54,and my trend has been to acumulate rilfle and putting Lyman receiver sights on all of them that I can(Handis excluded) Just make sure to mount a good front sight with some light color on the bacside llike Ivory,to make the front sight stand out. I also picked up a Merit adjustible diopter for the range. You would be amazed how well you can shoot with these.

WyoStillhunter · « **Reply #19 on:** November 04, 2009, 05:44:27 PM »

I thought I was too old to shoot irons for many years. This summer I decided I would go back to shooting my S&W revolvers just for fun. Lo and behold, I shoot those .38 Specials much better than expected. I'm not the pistol shot I was in the early 70s but I'm good enough to have fun at the range. Others have mentioned that scopes can foster lazy shooting habits. I suspect that is true to a good degree. I also suspect that practice is much more important than perfect vision.

As a result I have gone back to iron sights on my three Marlins. I have scopes on my bolt actions for serious hunting. So why not shoot the Marlins for fun?!

Now that hunting is over for 2009 my winter project is to get back on the loading bench for my 30-30, 35 Rem., and 444. I have gold bead front sights but will probably try a Skinner post one of them just to compare.

Who knows? I might surprise myself like did with the Smiths.

DCmauser · « **Reply #20 on:** November 10, 2009, 01:36:35 PM »

I have been meaning to look into Merit Corporation peep apertures, they even have one on the website that comes with a glass lens inside the aperture.

http://www.meritcorporation.com/products.html

I believe user must take that to their own optomotrist (eye doctor) for grinding and polishing to prescription, (perhaps focused 29" away where the front sight is located).

Brithunter · « **Reply #21 on:** November 12, 2009, 01:03:28 PM »

Hmmmm this thread brings the question to mind I wonder what happened to those flip fore sights the blade an Moon disc for poor light. I have seen several classic rilfes with them but don't know of anyone who makes such a thing now.

Strangely enough I have just fitted a new Redfield 70 sight to a bolt action rifle of mine, had a little trouble getting a Williams Gold bead higher blade for this 56 year old rifle. I may have to look for another with the ivory bead that is a bit biger as this gold one is a bit small. Now one of those old style Ivory tipped blade with a flip up Moon disc would be wonderful. I would also like to be able to find some of the 1/4" dia hunting discs to fit the Redifled sight with 1/8" hole in them

Meanwhile I am awaiting the delivery of a couple more of the Redield/Lyman reciever sights as my intention is to fit several more rifles with them and hopefully at least a couple with have these sights and a scope in QD mounts.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #22 on:** November 12, 2009, 01:39:02 PM »

Quote from: Brithunter on November 12, 2009, 01:03:28 PM

I wonder what happened to those flip fore sights the blade an Moon disc for poor light.

I'm not sure I know what you mean BH... $:-\$ "Moon disk" doesn't ring a bell for me. Got a picture?[/quote]

Brithunter · « **Reply #23 on:** November 12, 2009, 02:32:33 PM »

Sorry no photos that is unless there is one in one of the books I have on the shelf which don't help much as the scanner I now have is a right piece of *it

But I will try to describe it better. The Moon disc got it's name as it was used for shooting in poor light or by Moonlight (Leopards, Lions etc) and it also looks like a Moon. It's large, probably about 3/32" or even in some cases 1/8" dia as it was meant in a lot of cases for close up dangerous game work. Lyman made a version of it as a friend has a Double barreled Howdah pistol which has this lyman Moon disc/blade fore sight on it and those pistols were meant to deal with Tigers that were crawling/clawing their way up your Elephant mounts trunk!

The moon disc was covered by an inset of Ivory or Mother or Pearl so it caught and reflected any available light back to the shooters eye and the disc showed up against the animals hide giving a POA. Jim Corbett the famous Indian man eating Leopard slayer used one on his Rigby .275 rifle for night shooting these man eaters. He also shot man eating Lions. The Rigby was the gift from a provincial governor in thanks for killing such a man eater if I recall correctly. He started out using a Martin Henry 577/450 as a boy cadet in India during the Empire days.

I hope that explains it a little better.

mechanic · « **Reply #24 on:** November 12, 2009, 02:58:43 PM »

Things had gotten really bad for me until I found at my last exam that I have a cataract forming on my right eye. Gotta' wait before they can fix it. Couple that with right shoulder surgery, and I found I can see the sights with my left eye! Whooda' thunk it? I've got some of those firesights on my muzzie that work really well in good light, but the aperture on my BC works all the time, esp. with the little circle insert in the front.....

AtlLaw · « **Reply #25 on:** November 13, 2009, 06:53:19 AM »

Good discription BH. Still doesn't ring a bell though. $:-\$ I gather they were used without rear sights?

If I remember correctly, Finn Aagard (sp) once did an article comparing sights with regard to how fast a target could be acquired and how accuratly they could place a bullet after that target was acquired. Unless I'm mistaken, which I probably am, a rifle with only a front sight, no rear sight at all, was the winner.

Of course if that rifle was his 375 H&H he could shoot that accurately blindfolded!

Brithunter · « **Reply #26 on:** November 13, 2009, 08:00:50 AM »

As far as I am aware the rear sight was still used however I have never used a Moon Sight.

Tallwalker · « **Reply #27 on:** November 16, 2009, 02:08:21 PM »

Millett makes a flourescent front sight that is right for most lever guns with a dovetail for the front sight. I have two of them, and really like them for both hunting, and general shooting. The sight is about 1/8" wide, and can be seen in very poor light. I looked at a doe with them a couple of years ago after I had left my stand because of legal shooting time, and had no trouble seeing the sight against her. I'm quite sure I wouldn't have been able to see crosshairs. Since the sight is a ramped post, it also works well for testing loads.

Brithunter · « **Reply #28 on:** November 16, 2009, 02:42:08 PM »

Quote

I'm quite sure I wouldn't have been able to see crosshairs.

Ahh that's because you have the wrong type of:-

1) optics... i.e quality of glass and light transmission

2) reticle... you have one that's far too fine

Shooting at first and last light is very common here and In Europe night shooting by Moonlight is a common way of Boar control so the reticles are heavier so they can be sen and the als is first rate as are the coating to maximise light transmisson. I have looked at thsoe red plastic thingy foresights and soory but I was not impressed

.

pastorp · « **Reply #29 on:** November 16, 2009, 05:58:40 PM »

The old eyes remedy was always fingernail polish in your prefered shade of red or orangr or white.

Thats before all this new fangled stuff.

Shootall, The merit lense is something I haven't heard mentioned in a while. The old rangemaster at the range I belonged to in florida when I was a teenager used one. He shot a matched pair of colt target match revolvers and would shoot the centers out of the 50yd bullseye target using his merit lense. If I remember right I think he fastened it to the bill of his cap.

Thanks for taking my thoughts back a few years. Regards,