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Author Topic: 1894 357 Mag feed question  (Read 1041 times)

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Offline Lost Oki

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1894 357 Mag feed question
« on: November 02, 2009, 01:42:39 PM »
My 357 Marlin will feed the 158 gr. flat point without a problem but
the 170 jacketed and cast bullets I have will not feed due to length.
Any suggestions on how to open the feed up so a longer bullet
will feed ?  OR ??
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Offline LouisianaMan

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Re: 1894 357 Mag feed question
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2009, 09:49:20 AM »
Mine feeds & shoots 180 JHPs fine. How does your COAL compare to what the manual lists?
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Offline Dee

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Re: 1894 357 Mag feed question
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2009, 11:15:54 AM »
I don't know if you understand what LaMan means "COAL" it should be "OACL", it took me a minute. He means Overall Case Length. Base to bullet nose, in other words.
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Offline Sweetwater

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Re: 1894 357 Mag feed question
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2009, 11:24:11 AM »
Quote from: Dee on November 08, 2009, 11:15:54 AM
I don't know if you understand what LaMan means "COAL" it should be "OACL", it took me a minute. He means Overall Case Length. Base to bullet nose, in other words.

This is all true, however, all the modern manuals list it as COAL; Case Over All Length.

What Dee says makes sense, but since when do rules of English make sense?

Though grammatically incorrect, COAL is technically correct.

Regards,
Sweetwater
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Regards,
Sweetwater

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Offline Dee

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Re: 1894 357 Mag feed question
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2009, 11:52:03 AM »
Quote from: Sweetwater on November 08, 2009, 11:24:11 AM
Quote from: Dee on November 08, 2009, 11:15:54 AM
I don't know if you understand what LaMan means "COAL" it should be "OACL", it took me a minute. He means Overall Case Length. Base to bullet nose, in other words.

This is all true, however, all the modern manuals list it as COAL; Case Over All Length.

What Dee says makes sense, but since when do rules of English make sense?

Though grammatically incorrect, COAL is technically correct.

Regards,
Sweetwater

Let's get real technical. Actually the Proper term is COL. Case Overall Length, i.e. Hornady, Lyman, ect. but, hell who really cares. "OVERALL" BEING ONE WORD.  I think the thought, has been conveyed. ;)
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Offline Sweetwater

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Re: 1894 357 Mag feed question
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2009, 11:58:49 AM »
Quote from: Dee on November 08, 2009, 11:52:03 AM
Quote from: Sweetwater on November 08, 2009, 11:24:11 AM
Quote from: Dee on November 08, 2009, 11:15:54 AM
I don't know if you understand what LaMan means "COAL" it should be "OACL", it took me a minute. He means Overall Case Length. Base to bullet nose, in other words.

This is all true, however, all the modern manuals list it as COAL; Case Over All Length.

What Dee says makes sense, but since when do rules of English make sense?

Though grammatically incorrect, COAL is technically correct.

Regards,
Sweetwater

Let's get real technical. Actually the Proper term is COL. Case Overall Length, i.e. Hornady, Lyman, ect. but, hell who really cares. "OVERALL" BEING ONE WORD.  I think the thought, has been conveyed. ;)

Dee: I will stand, er, sit corrected and you are totally correct, nobody really cares. Happy Sunday afternoon.

Regards,
Sweetwater
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Offline crash87

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Re: 1894 357 Mag feed question
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2009, 05:24:31 AM »
Oki, you can make it feed a longer carteidge, Do a search and you should find the info. It is really not to hard to do, as I have done it on my 1894C. NOW, Gentlemen, It is not CASE overall length, it is Cartridge overall length. COAL or COL is a moot point as we, in this case, (no pun intended), really aren't concerned with how long the case is, but how long the cartridge is, so that it will feed. So, to review, base to bullet nose is, "cartridge overall length", base to case mouth is "case overall length", but to be honest, I have never heard of the term case overall length until now, Thanks guys. CRASH87
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Offline Dee

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Re: 1894 357 Mag feed question
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2009, 05:41:54 AM »
Well, I guess like Sweetwater, I'm gonna have to stand (or sit) corrected, because your right. Where you sittin Sweetwater, and I'll sit with ya?
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Offline crash87

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Re: 1894 357 Mag feed question
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2009, 06:28:02 AM »
Hey Dee, ROTFLMAO  :D  I have never used that term before until now. First times for everything. :)
CRASH87
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Offline Dee

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Re: 1894 357 Mag feed question
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2009, 06:32:13 AM »
Well after four tries, with four adults, it finally got to what it actually is. Go figure. ;D
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 1894 357 Mag feed question
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2009, 10:07:47 AM »
Quote from: crash87 on November 09, 2009, 05:24:31 AM
NOW, Gentlemen, It is not CASE overall length, it is Cartridge overall length.

I knew that...  8)
But y'all were having so much fun I didn't want to spoil it for you...  ;D
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Offline 454Puma

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Re: 1894 357 Mag feed question
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2009, 12:17:00 PM »
Lost Oki
  Marlin gives you a MAX COL! You'll not be able to exceed that length! It's not that it just will not feed it will not chamber as well!  You have two options reduce the COL of that load! Or use a different bullet profile in that weight! ::)
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Offline LouisianaMan

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Re: 1894 357 Mag feed question
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2009, 03:02:06 PM »
Wow, I "dropped a bombshell" and left for a day. . .and wound up missing half the fun! OK, just to set the record straight(-er), I did in fact mean "cartridge overall length." I've seen it abbreviated both as COAL and COL. Of course, down in La. I don't burn coal, and "COL" means "Colonel" to me after 24 years in the Army! Likewise, in those two dozen years, I've seen more acronyms than I could count. . . .

With that (un-)settled, here's a quote from page 1 of my _Owner's Manual, Marlin Centerfire Lever Action Rifles, Model 1894_:If your rifle is chambered for 357 Magnum. . .Minimum overall cartridge length -- 1.400" Maximum overall cartridge length -- 1.590"

Note that the manual states that the rifle is designed for factory-loaded ammo. . .I know from experience that some of my reloads had problems chambering a SWC profile despite an appropriate COAL/COL/overall cartridge length.  ;D

Lost Oki, I haven't measured the "overall cartridge length" (Marlin's term!) of my Winchester Partition Gold 180g JHPs, but they work fine. Maybe you can attempt to manually chamber a dummy round. If it doesn't chamber, there's your answer. If it does, compare its length to the Marlin manual info & see what it tells you.

Best of luck & happy shooting!
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Offline Sweetwater

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Re: 1894 357 Mag feed question
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2009, 05:56:51 PM »
Quote from: Dee on November 09, 2009, 05:41:54 AM
Well, I guess like Sweetwater, I'm gonna have to stand (or sit) corrected, because your right. Where you sittin Sweetwater, and I'll sit with ya?

Dee: I do have a spare comfy chair here at my Loading Bench - you are more than welcome, anytime! Actually, I'm in N. Idaho, about 25 miles or so SW of Veral Smith's establishment.

Truthfully, I was being a little tongue in cheek with my wit and it backfired as I have "never" used the term "case overall length" before, but have seen COAL in reference to "cartridge overall length" - just proved I should have taken my nap instead of pounding this keyboard. Upon Dee's correction, I did check my references and they all state COL, not COAL, so now I'm confused as to where I've seen it. Must be those gun rags!!

All the same, I find these chats to be totally rewarding, sometimes uplifting, and sometimes hilarious, as this one turned out to be, at least for me. I can stand to be humbled now and again and try not to take anything too personal.
I do wish we all lived closer together. I'm sure there are some great fireside chats that are being neglected!!

Regards,
Sweetwater
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Regards,
Sweetwater

Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway - John Wayne

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Offline Dee

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Re: 1894 357 Mag feed question
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2009, 01:46:22 AM »
No doubt. I have been reloading since 1970-71, and all those terms are long since sittin on a shelf at my house. I guess I loaded a couple dozen cartridges over the years, and now I am back to loading the FOUR, I pretty much started with, and one of those I load very seldom. I have pretty much GONE BACK to low tech, and am much happier for it. Full circle I guess.
Well you are at the opposite end of the country as me, so my wife won't let me walk up to your house for a visit, so I guess this is gonna be it.
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Offline GatCat

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Re: 1894 357 Mag feed question
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2009, 02:52:30 AM »
It is a fairly easy proceedure to modify the 1894 Marlin so that it will take a bit longer COL. Probably best for you to go to Marlinowners.com, go the the 1894 forum, and check there.
Mark
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Offline Lost Oki

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Re: 1894 357 Mag feed question
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2009, 01:51:34 PM »
Was beginning to wonder if I was going to get a reply.....My answer was looking me in the face I didn't see it.

Yes, I know COL...and understand it is cartridge not case length, but didn't look close enough to realize this was Max length.

Now, My COL for the 158 gr soft point comes in at 1.590 (Max per Louisiana Man). 

my cast 170 Keith is .388 from the bottom of the crimp ring to the top of the bullet.  The 158 is .318 from middle of crimp ring to top, .060 shorter than the 170 Keith.  The 170hp I got from Midway is .412 from middle of crimp ring to top.  The cases fall in at 1.286 and my Lyman says trim to 1.285.  Based on Louisiana Man's info and me double checking my books, looks like I will load them in the .38 cases and use them up that way.    Louisiana Man.  Where?  I spent 10 yrs in Haynesville, (3 miles from the Arkansas line).

Again, thanks for all the replies....even the case length ones....
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Offline LouisianaMan

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Re: 1894 357 Mag feed question
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2009, 02:44:51 PM »
Lost Oki,
Sounds like you have a plan. Come to think of it, it's what I've done with some 170-something LSWCs I got my hands on. .357s wouldn't chamber in my revolver, so I loaded 'em in .38s to shoot in the .357.

I grew up in Baton Rouge & have settled near St. Francisville since retiring from active duty. Folks in Haynesville are supposedly about to get rich with shale oil deposits, unless, ahem, political considerations make it impossible & we all get to live on wind power instead. Maybe you left too soon?  :D
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Offline Lost Oki

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Re: 1894 357 Mag feed question
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2009, 01:18:15 PM »
Louisiana Man...
Yep, I have a plan, now all I need is time to hunt and time to fish and time to reload.  Work keeps getting in
the way.
Haynesville....Did not leave soon enough.  Love Louisiana, Like many of the people...Haynesville is another story.
Could have stayed there for 40 yrs and this Okie would still have been a Yankee to many.....Regardless, I make
a heck of a good gumbo with what ever I can find....
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