Anyone noticed the 444 Marlin might easily make rimmed 308 family cases?

[briannmilewis]

I was looking for a range of modern designed rimmed cases for the H&R single-shot rifle, and came up pretty empty. I was looking for something that could be applied universally like the 308 family or the 30-06 family, basic case necked to a wide range of bullets, no complicated gunsmithing or reloading issues. Being frugal is important to me.

Then I noticed the 444 Marlin case looked like it may be able to be trimmed a little, run thru FL 308 family dies, a couple of different ones for the smallest necks sizes, and viola, you have rimmed 243, 260, 7mm-08, 308 and 358. There is only a 0.001" thickness difference at the base of the case body, and hopefully that is no impediment to forming.

No custom dies, a little brass forming, and maybe the only chamber work required would be to cut the barrel face to accommodate the rim, and no other  change in the chamber. Also, this maybe able to be applied to bolt rifles with some minor bolt face work to accommodate the rim. Maybe it is a way to make new versions of the old rimmed bolt rifles. Larry, Stimpy or someone with experience in such gunsmithing matters would be able to expand on that I am sure.

I don't have any 444 Marlin cases or 308 family dies, so I can't confirm this.

Here are the base drawings plus my interpretation.

Anyone done this?







Why? Rimmed cases in a single-shot that cost very little to create - especially no custom dies, no custom reamer, no super expensive cases.

[Thebear_78]

You already have the 307 winchester, and 356 winchester to work off, basically the same cartridge.

[briannmilewis]

Thebear, that's a good idea, and possibly a better one, especially as 307 brass can be had for about $26/50.

It looks like running that brass thru the standard 308 family dies would be a no brainer.

The only issue is how much the 307 brass can grow (2.015") to help with the possibility of short cases in the 243 - case length = 2.045", 260 and 7mm-08 - case length = 2.035". Well, if I use RCBS X-Dies, the short case issue will not be factor as you have to trim to Max OL - 0.020" before your first X-Die resizing. 

Thanks for the much improved idea, an easier and cheaper path to the same destination.

Gotta love this forum.  

[Spanky]

The JDJ cartridges from GBO sponsor SSK Industries are made from the 444 Marlin case being necked to different sizes.
www.sskindustries.com


Spanky

[briannmilewis]

The JDJ cartridges are made from the 444 Marlin case being necked to different sizes.
Spanky

As Graybeard is so fond of saying, "everything that can be done, has been done".

[briannmilewis]

Is there a rimmed equivalent to the 30-06 family?

Lacking that, maybe this is the rimmed case to trim and run through the 30-06 family dies...

[Spanky]

http://www.sskindustries.com/cartridges.htm



Spanky

[Ladobe]

The JDJ cartridges are made from the 444 Marlin case being necked to different sizes.
Spanky

As Graybeard is so fond of saying, "everything that can be done, has been done".

One more... the Super Bower cartridges are based on the 307/356 Win cases, so that ones been done too.

(22, 6, 6.5, 7, 358, 429 SB's and 30 Alaskan)

[searlock]

reply to #5   30-40 krag

[Lone Star]

The Krag's both too short and too small in diameter to be a ballistic equivalent of the '06.  It can be used to make rimmed .35 Remington cases or short .35 Winchester cases.



.

[torpedoman]

I think they will also form 410 brass shotshells from 303 brit.

[bcp]

Is there a rimmed equivalent to the 30-06 family?

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd7x65r.jpg

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd93x74r.jpg

[briannmilewis]

Is there a rimmed equivalent to the 30-06 family?

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd7x65r.jpg

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd93x74r.jpg

Your links give this result: Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /jpg/cd7x65r.jpg on this server.

[briannmilewis]

Is there a rimmed equivalent to the 30-06 family?

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd7x65r.jpg

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd93x74r.jpg

Your links give this result: Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /jpg/cd7x65r.jpg on this server.

The 9.3x74R looked like an alternative for the 338-74 Keith. You can actually buy the brass.

[jedman]

Hey  Brian,  I keep my eye out for good deals on Norma , RWS and others that make brass for the 6.5 x 57 R , 7 x 57 R , & 8 x 57 R, I can get it sometimes for no more than 308 or 30-06 brass.
It has the same head dia. .468 -.470 as alot of rimless rounds do and is long enough to form a rimmed version of a lot of popular cartridges.  It would work for all of the 308 family versions plus is a perfect match for versions of 6 MM Rem,  257 Roberts and many others.
I have a version of a shortened 270 Win on the 7 x 57 R case in a handi barrel that shoots great.
To make any of the 30-06 family of rounds on this brass you must deal with a .003 -.004 difference in the head dia. ( smaller ) if you shorten any of the 30-06 family to approximatlely 2.225 OAL.
This can be done with a reamer or a carefull grinding with a dremel tool, both to the chamber mouth and the base of your sizeing die.  If you can afford using 9.3 x 74 R brass or possibly 7 x 65 R brass you could form them full length.  It keeps your mind busy thinkin of this stuff,... My wife knows Im nuts"
Keep dreamin theres allways something to put together with all these possibilities !   Jedman

[bcp]

Go here:
http://stevespages.com/page8d.htm

Then scroll down to the metric section and click on the diagrams.

Bruce

Is there a rimmed equivalent to the 30-06 family?

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd7x65r.jpg

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd93x74r.jpg

Your links give this result: Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /jpg/cd7x65r.jpg on this server.

[briannmilewis]

The 7x65R looks perfect! I have been looking at the cartridge drawings and don't know how  missed that one. The Norma is $1.38ea, however, keeping an eye out for the deals sounds good. But also, buying a 100 cases would not break one and if loaded right and necksized, I am sure they would have a good life.

If you can afford using 9.3 x 74 R brass or possibly 7 x 65 R brass you could form them full length.  It keeps your mind busy thinkin of this stuff,... My wife knows Im nuts"
Keep dreamin theres allways something to put together with all these possibilities !   Jedman

Hey Jed: I think there must be a special place in the asylum for the cartridge/wildcat insane folks like us that get these ideas and just churn and churn them over. How come they have let you keep walking around among the sane folks for so long? I am pretty sure my brain will settle down once we get the 223 Short done, or does it get worse after the first wildcat? Cheers mate.

[yooper77]

I was looking for a range of modern designed rimmed cases for the H&R single-shot rifle, and came up pretty empty. I was looking for something that could be applied universally like the 308 family or the 30-06 family, basic case necked to a wide range of bullets, no complicated gunsmithing or reloading issues. Being frugal is important to me.

Then I noticed the 444 Marlin case looked like it may be able to be trimmed a little, run thru FL 308 family dies, a couple of different ones for the smallest necks sizes, and viola, you have rimmed 243, 260, 7mm-08, 308 and 358. There is only a 0.001" thickness difference at the base of the case body, and hopefully that is no impediment to forming.

No custom dies, a little brass forming, and maybe the only chamber work required would be to cut the barrel face to accommodate the rim, and no other  change in the chamber. Also, this maybe able to be applied to bolt rifles with some minor bolt face work to accommodate the rim. Maybe it is a way to make new versions of the old rimmed bolt rifles. Larry, Stimpy or someone with experience in such gunsmithing matters would be able to expand on that I am sure.

I don't have any 444 Marlin cases or 308 family dies, so I can't confirm this.

Here are the base drawings plus my interpretation.

Anyone done this?







Why? Rimmed cases in a single-shot that cost very little to create - especially no custom dies, no custom reamer, no super expensive cases.

Can you say 309 JDJ, 30 Caliber (308 Diameter) bullets made from 444 Marlin cases.  SSKIndustries.com  Also 375 JDJ, 375 caliber bullets made from the 444 Marlin case tons of years ago.  Hornady’s 375 caliber 220 grain flat nose bullets made for the 375 Winchester is great for the 375 JDJ in a pistol barrel.

Yes, if a wildcat could be created, it already has been many years ago.

I feel you would save time if you bought the P.O. Ackley books,  then you can see what has already been created.

yooper77

[gman628]

Ther are quite a few guys using .444 cases for rimmed versions of standard rounds, as mentioned, the JDJ rounds are based off the strength of the .444 case and used by the break open shooters.  Also, I have a wildcat (338R CE) I load for using the 7x65R cases for my Encore pistol.  Neal Cooper has a line of wildcats called Cooper Express  I know that the 30R CE and the .338R CE are made with 7x65R, not sure about all the others.  The .338R CE I shoot is basically a rimmed 338 Gibbs, when using the 7x65R case, there's no trimming involved.  I haven't chrono'ed mine yet in my 16" barrel, but one gentleman did some work in his 17" barrel and with a 180gr. Accubond and 57 gr of Varget and getting 2700+ fps and with IMR-4064 getting around 2800 fps

Gary

[briannmilewis]

I appreciate folks still chipping in on this one, obviously before I discovered the 307 Win, which would suffice. Anyway, there is so much valuable info in this thread I am saving a copy.