Need help

[fr3db3ar]

I'm shooting a Taurus .357 6.5" SS

Factory 158 gr loads shoot decent
my reloads using a Hornady RN 158gr and 5gr Hodgden P38 powder are tumbling @ 25 yards around half the time?

Does my pistol just not like this bullet?

The factory loads are a lot hotter than what I'm shooting.

[GH1]

I would try contacting Hornady with your weapon & load info, I bet they can help you figure it out.  It probably wouldn't hurt to get a hold of the powder people either.
GH1

[Grumulkin]

It's pretty routine for light loads to shoot worse than the loads a gun was designed for.  Since your gun shoots well with factory ammunition, the fault isn't with the gun.  You need to up the load a bit to increase the velocity so the bullets will stabilize better.

[fr3db3ar]

I got my load data from Hodgden web site and 5g of HP38 is what they are calling the max.

[Savage]

Start out with a fresh cardboard backing on your target. Check the holes in the backing to make sure they are tumbling. Frequently the target paper is not taut against the backing. The bullet tears through the loose target paper giving the appearance of tumbling. The fresh backing should have a nice round hole. Round nose bullets are the worst offenders here. The SWC bullets cut a nice clean hole. Your load, is fine.
Savage

[hillbill]

make sure that your barrel isnt leaded up.i used to have a few boxes of factory 158 grn loads that would lead up the barrel within 10 rds or so, so badly it wouldnt hit a 5 gallon bucket at 25 yrds.

[Graybeard]

You've got a Taurus and it doesn't work right and you are surprised? I'd be surprised if it didn't do that. I'd look first to the gun personally. I had a Taurus M44 .44 magnum with 12" barrel that put two of six full broadside at 25 yards and two of six tilted at 25. But hey on average two of six made round holes.

The barrel looked kinda like an old black powder gun that had been shot a lot and never cleaned. It appeared rust pitted and only had about half the rifling in it. Take a look down your barrel to be sure it looks OK. If so then perhaps it's just not moving fast enough to stabilize.

[SAA]

Another good thing to do is to slug the barrel and the cylinder (drive a bullet cast out of pure lead through the barrel and mesure the diameter).
This way you will know wich bullet that will fit properly.
I have a Ruger Blackhawk NM 357mag that would shoot .357 jacketed bullets very accurately, but did not shoot .358 lead bullets any good.
I also got excessive leading of the barrel with lead bullets.
When I slugged the barrel I found out it was .360 now I´m using .360 lead bullets with good results.

[fr3db3ar]

Ok....I'm shooting at a heavy cardboard backer so I'm sure they're key holing.

I'm actually happy with the way this Taurus shoots the factory loads of both hollow points and flat nosed.

The barrel is not leading up...that was the first thing I checked, I just didn't note it in the post....my bad.

I slugged the barrel and it reads .357

I'm currently loading the
Hornady 38 cal
.358
158 gr LRN  #10508

which in reality mics out to be .359 to .360.

The factory loads are jacketed...these are not.

I had already tried 6 gr which didn't really help much...so I'm guessing just keep increasing load maybe 1/2 gr at a time till if feels like the factory loads?

[Savage]

As you seem to have eliminated the target problem, now is the time to look to the gun. It would be interesting if you could recover a fired bullet in good shape to examine. The rifling marks on the bullet can tell you a lot.  A slight increase in velocity may help, just don't go over published max. Good luck!
Savage

[Sensai]

I got my load data from Hodgden web site and 5g of HP38 is what they are calling the max.

I had already tried 6 gr which didn't really help much...so I'm guessing just keep increasing load maybe 1/2 gr at a time till if feels like the factory loads?

I really don't think that's a good plan!  Why don't you consider a different powder if you want more velocity?  There are rare exceptions, but usually going above the manufacturers max recommended load is a bad practice.

I would also check the cylinder throat bore.  I had a Taurus that had three tight cylinder throats.  They sized the bullets down below the barrel groove dimensions and caused some of the same symptoms that you are describing.  I did have leading problems though, so maybe that's not your problem.  Once I had the cylinder problem fixed, it shot pretty good.

[fr3db3ar]

I also wanted to ask if everybody crimps their SWPC's ?  I don't think my setup is doing that.

[sk330lc]

Your problem Might be Your pushing them to fast.  The Hornady lead Bullet are almost Like shooting pure lead Bullets.  You might be Melting the Base of the Bullets a Little.   I have found, out of my 6" GP-100 I can't push them faster than about 750 FPS. Or they Tumble.  I haven't noticed any major leading just a slight resedue.  I have also found that Unique works best with them for Me.   Just a thought.

[stimpylu32]

I'm shooting a Taurus .357 6.5" SS

Factory 158 gr loads shoot decent
my reloads using a Hornady RN 158gr and 5gr Hodgden P38 powder are tumbling @ 25 yards around half the time?

Does my pistol just not like this bullet?

The factory loads are a lot hotter than what I'm shooting.

That would be my best guess , it just doesn't like that style or alloy of bullet . try some hard cast SWC's as most of the Hornady bullets are Swedged of a softer mix than a true cast .

stimpy

PS --- Don't try just adding powder till it BLOWS UP !!

[krod47nw]

If none of the above suggestions work, have the revolvers cylinder to barrel alignment checked.  If it is off it can deform the soft swaged lead bullet.  The factory jacketed bullet being much harder may be able to overcome the misalignment.


Kevin

[fr3db3ar]

PS --- Don't try just adding powder till it BLOWS UP !!

But, but, but....well how will I know if I can blow it up or not without trying?


JK  

[Savage]

If none of the above suggestions work, have the revolvers cylinder to barrel alignment checked.  If it is off it can deform the soft swaged lead bullet.  The factory jacketed bullet being much harder may be able to overcome the misalignment.


Kevin

Good point!!
Savage

[Grumulkin]

Ok....I'm shooting at a heavy cardboard backer so I'm sure they're key holing.

I'm actually happy with the way this Taurus shoots the factory loads of both hollow points and flat nosed.

The barrel is not leading up...that was the first thing I checked, I just didn't note it in the post....my bad.

I slugged the barrel and it reads .357

I'm currently loading the
Hornady 38 cal
.358
158 gr LRN  #10508

which in reality mics out to be .359 to .360.

The factory loads are jacketed...these are not.

I had already tried 6 gr which didn't really help much...so I'm guessing just keep increasing load maybe 1/2 gr at a time till if feels like the factory loads?

You said in your initial post that factory loads were a lot hotter than your loads.  I guess I would have to ask how you know that.  Trying to judge how heavy a load is by comparing recoil is not a very precise way of estimating pressures.  Remember, felt recoil is influenced by how fast the powder is, the weight of the bullet AND the weight of the powder charge among other things.  In other words, you can have very similar bullet speeds with different powders that produce obviously different felt recoils.

You probably know this, but the way to work up a load is to start low and work up comparing accuracy of the loads as you go.  There is no point in increasing powder charges if accuracy is deteriorating.  In addition, while you can watch for signs of increasing pressure like sticky ejection, primer flattening, etc. in guns with strong actions, in a revolver such as you have, you would be wise to stick with reloading manual recommendations.

There reasons loads are listed as maximum in manuals.  Most of the time it's pressure but it can also be bullet construction.  You can use loading data for a given weight for a jacketed bullet with the same weight in a cast bullet and but pressure will be lower than if you were using a jacketed bullet.  This means you could increase the load safely and get more velocity but might get undesirable barrel leading.

I have found that crimping bullets for low pressure handgun loads does result in better accuracy.