Loading gas checked cast bullets

[Echo4Lima]

If a FP cast bullet is gas checked, can it be loaded to jacketed pressures with jacketed powders?

The standard for lead is slow burning powder so it doesnt damage the bullet.  Isnt the gas check for prevention of that?

[Graybeard]

Where in the world did you pick up so much misinformation? Are you talking handguns or centerfire rifles or what? Generally you can use same powders for either but yeah if what you're looking for is low velocity lead bullet loads there are some different powders to use for that.

[torpedoman]

not a good idea to try to push a cast bullet that fast it may not spin in the rifling just strip.

[Mikey]

torpedoman - that's a new one on me.  My cast 444 slugs regularly get chrono-ed to 2300'/sec+.  Where did you pick up this bit of information?  I have found that sizing my cast slugs to one thousands overbore always gives me great accuracy and minimizes leading.  just curious.....

[skb2706]

Lots of cast bullet shooting info available. I believe what I see. I can shoot BB hard cast GC bullets in my .357 max exceeding 2000 fps with no problems.

[Catfish]

It really depends on the bullets. I have pushed some Lead Head bullets, hard cast gas chesked, to 2,600 fps + with no leading and extremly good accuracy. It really depends on the bullet you are useing. No you can get the velocities from gas checked bullets you can get from from jacketed bullets, but with the right gas checked bullet you can get max. velocities from some calibers.

[Echo4Lima]

OK. Lets take a .32-20 FPGC. Common powder for lead is A2400, a "slow" burner. Same caliber using a jacketed bullet common powder is H110, a "faster/hotter" burn. Look up loads for the venerable .45-70 and you'll see the same pattern, 3031 for lead, H322 for jacketed. W231 to W296 in a .357. I dont think thats "misinformation"

Catfish, I think you have given me a reasonable answer to a simple question.

[securitysix]

H110 is a pretty slow burning powder.  I assume your "A2400" is "Alliant 2400", which is faster than H110.  W296 is way slower than W231.  H322 is slower than IMR3031. 

The reason lead bullets are pushed slower than jacketed bullets is not to prevent damage to the bullet, it's to help reduce leading in the bore.

The gas check is to help reduce leading when lead bullets are pushed to higher velocities, or so I understand.

I think you've been misinformed.

[Graybeard]

While 2400 is slightly faster burning than W296 it is only barely so and what one can be used for so can the other generally speaking. Now that you've finally listed some cartirdges to discuss the answer is yes in those mentioned you can use same powders and same loading data for gas checked hard cast bullets with them as you would for jacketed bullets.

Generally that's true except for faster bottle neck rounds really. With any straight wall case or nearly straight wall case such as the .32-20 a gas checked hard cast bullet will do just fine at any velocity you can reasonably shoot them. You really are kidding yourself if you think the differences in burn rates of the powders you mention as pairings is that great. Just because a powder is a notch or two above or below another doesn't mean their burn rates are that much different. Now W231 and W296 are very different but not the other pairings mentioned. BTW W231 is perfectly suitable for jacketed bullet use and W296 is perfectly suited to use with hard cast lead with or without a GC. So is 2400. I've used both IMR3031 and H322 with cast bullets in the .45-70 in fact I don't recall ever loading a jacketed bullet in that round only cast.

[Steve P]

Whatever powder is called out in the book for .32-20 will work for a cast bullet with gas check.   I have shot 100 gr up to 220 gr bullets in mine with no problems.

Steve

[CGPAUL]

I think a point may be missed here. A gas check is used on the base of a bullet to prevent the base from being gas "cut". This is critical to accuracy, as an uneven base on any bullet gives substandard accuracy. In my experience, one can use any sutable powder for that particular bullet/cartridge combination with success.

I cast bullets for my .45 colt and .45 cal Sharps. I`ve used both black powder and smokeless in each, with and without bullets with gas checks. I have recovered cast bullets from each gun and have observed the gas cutting in hard and soft, cast bullets. Gas checks prevent this problem, and also the lead build up in the barrel. In the Sharps, using bullets without a gas check grove, I seat the gas check upside down under the bullet. Works great to seal off powder gasses.

[BBF]

I seat the gas check upside down under the bullet. Works great to seal off powder gasses.

 
How are you keeping those rascals from falling off?

[jhalcott]

  A good question to ask the OP is "what are you using the bullets for. game targets or plinking?" As for keeping those checks on the base. Once the slug has left the bore , the check isn't REALLY needed.Think of the wads used in many black powder cartridge gun loads. Kind of like a sabot, just shorter!

[Echo4Lima]

Okay!  My appoligies to you all on the burn rates, I had the list reversed in my head. I checked my chart in one book and found its listed "fastest to slowest" not the other way around.

I did however, get an answer to the my original question which was about the velosities obtainable with a gas checked bullet.

My experience with 3031 to H322 is part of my question.  When I load 3031 with a 350g cast out of my GG, there is a LOT of unburned powder. Didnt seem to notice this with H322.
 

[kynardsj]

I've pretty much gone to using hard cast with gas checks for all my 357 revolvers as I use Lil Gun for my magnum loads and it is a slow burning powder that is hotter than some of the other magnum powders. Only plain base bullets I load anymore is over Unique. The gas checks may not be necessary in all my magnum loadings but I'm not seeing any leading either so if it ain't broke I'm not gonna fix it. I'm in the process now of ordering some 160 grain FN GC's sized to a .358 from Montana Bullet Works. My 10 inch Contender still likes 158 grain jacketed bullets the best but I'm trying to wean it off them to a gas check hardcast.

[Graybeard]

It's HIGHLY UNLIKELY you are seeing unburned powder. What you are seeing that many confuse as unburned powder is the residue left over when some powders burn. Not all powders are fully consumed by the combustion process same as when you burn wood/paper and such there is a residue left behind.

[Echo4Lima]

Thought that myself.  Guy with me picked it up.  Powder. Give you the benifit of the doubt, could be what you said.

[45454]

I seat the gas check upside down under the bullet. Works great to seal off powder gasses.

 
How are you keeping those rascals from falling off?

Hi BBF,
I gather,he's using BP or BP substitute powders.
As in 100% fill/density in the case.