Author Topic: Why don't you like government administered health care?  (Read 1687 times)

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Offline Questor

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Why don't you like government administered health care?
« on: November 09, 2009, 03:29:38 AM »
I'll leave my opinions out of it for now, but why don't you like it?
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2009, 03:43:22 AM »
1)  I don't like the 2.xx% additional tax.
2)  I don't like the idea of the government telling me what I can and can't do.  Some people don't want health care insurance.  
3)  Any government run program is full of beauracracy which is expensive and full of red tape.
4)  We can't afford it.  Deficit spending will result in high taxes, and future high inflation.
5)  They didn't even listen to any proposals of the Republicans like allowing you to choose a policy from another state which will be cheaper, basically allowing capitalism to bring down costs by competition.
6)  They did not have tort reform, limiting malpractic suits.  My doctor said he paid $2,600 a month for the insurance.  How much lower could cost be without this excessive insurance they have to pay.
7)  A poll was conducted among doctors and 45% of them said they may take early retirement to avoid all this paperwork and hassle with the government.  
8) 85% of the so called uninsured in America work full time and have insurance offered at their places of employment.  They opt not to buy it.  Why?, mostly because they are young, healthy and feel they don't need it now.  
9)  Preventative disease, such as STD's and illegals have caused a lot of the health care increases.  What about quarintines like they had in the past, and round up the illegals and send them home, build the wall.
10)  Drugs are cheaper overseas, so allow mail order companies to fill your perscriptions with lower cost drugs from imports.  

If these items were implemented first, then have a safety net for the uninsurable, truely poor, etc. which would'nt cost $1 trillion dollars, but maybe much less.  But NO, the dems won't listen.  They won't compromise, so they must go in 2010.  Vote conservatives in, true Republican conservatives, and independents, and maybe we can take back congress and stop Obama's socialism.  


Offline Questor

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2009, 04:23:04 AM »
Jeez, Dixie Dude, you really win the awards for conciseness and clarity today! I have not seen it said better anywhere. You Da Man!
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Offline The Hermit

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2009, 01:04:44 PM »
Dixie Dude, great response. The only other thing I don't like is the mandatory prison if you refuse to buy insurance. Should be unconstitutional.

   The Hermit

Offline Hooker

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2009, 01:45:16 PM »
All I want from government is for them to stay Out of my pockets, Out of my business, and Out of my life.

Pat 
" In the beginning of change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man,hated and scorned. when the cause succeeds however,the timid join him...for then it cost nothing to be a patriot. "
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Offline Redtail1949

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2009, 02:19:36 PM »
Me  I am with the "HOOKER"

Offline littlecanoe

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2009, 02:54:11 PM »
No tort reform.

Gov./pols are notorious for underestimating cost. $$$$$$

Too great a chance for personal choice to be taken out of the equation.

Trying to do too much at once.  There has to be a deeper motive than "caring for the people".

This became an election "crisis" that has steamrolled to this point.  What is the deeper motive?


Let's open up competition for policies by allowing coverage across state lines.
Gobs of things that can be done before allowing people who don't do health care to start doing health care.

Offline torpedoman

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2009, 03:05:49 PM »
It is a scam, you will be required to buy insurance and there will be no limit on what the insurance companies can charge.
the nation that forgets it defenders will itself be forgotten

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2009, 03:15:16 PM »
All the things listed above are the reasons why I dont think this is about insurance at all! its about government control. Its about expanding the influence of government in our lives. Its about making people more dependant on government.

Now i know that there are those that really would like to do something good but the people that are driving this aint got good intentions at all! If it was legit it would not be shoved down our throats!

If it was about insurance there are things in place that could cover the gap for those that want insurance and cant afford it. Look, I see people everyday that arent insured by anyone but get total medical care and prescriptions that dont cost them anything!

Mainly I dont want it if the people that are " writing it" dont want it!
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

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Offline Greenbug

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2009, 04:04:00 PM »
Way to go Dixie Dude, ya nailed it !  I'm also of the same mind as Hooker  ;)   While there is a large group of folks with a legitimate need for some help with med expenses, there is a larger group of people that just flat out want every free ride they can get at someone else's expense; these folks i have no use for.
If the Government is for it, I am probably against it.

Offline nomosendero

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2009, 04:25:39 PM »
Easier to say what is good about it, NOTHING!!!
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline 3006softpoint

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2009, 04:02:08 AM »
Dixie: This is the only thing I don't agree with you on!

85% of the so called uninsured in America work full time and have insurance offered at their places of employment.  They opt not to buy it.  Why?, mostly because they are young, healthy and feel they don't need it now!
Most of the younger couples are having childern,into craze sports like skiing, biking ,running motor cycle riding! There trying to buy houses, cars! Are insurance is getting very unaffordable and people are risking there life dreams by not having it! Law suits ect.( I would like to see a strong hold on insurance companies) regulating the premiums! freezing premium cost! If you have the VA or goverment retirement insurance you have it made with the government already! Thats government Insurance! ( Whats good for the goose is good for the gander)& the rest of the country!

Offline magooch

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2009, 04:21:45 AM »
The answer to your question, Questor is easiest answered by another question--have you ever had any dealings with the IRS?
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2009, 05:06:56 AM »
Most of the problems started when people got too far into debt.  The bought homes with ARM's with like 2% for the first 5 years etc.  They owed for cars and credit cards.  When gasoline went from $1.xx to almost $4 a gallon, and the ARM's started kicking in higher interest rates, then they started forfeiting medical insurance and other things, and finally walked away from their homes, especially if they bought it with no down payment.  Not much invested, so they walked away.  However, I did read this from somewhere about the 85% of the uninsured had it offered at their places of employment.  I have 7 kids, 2 of them work full time and have insurance offered, but don't have it.  I remind them about it all the time.  It may cost them now, but if they have an accident, they could be ruined financially.  One works with a heat and air condition dealer, one with Verison.  Would cost them about $100 a month for full coverage with BC/BS.  I know it sounds high to them, but they are young and healthy, so they think they don't need it now.  Both are single males.  They said they would probably get it whenever they got married.  I have two in college and I can cover them with mine.

Offline MGMorden

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2009, 05:18:33 AM »
The answer to you question, Questor is easiest answered by another question--have you ever had any dealings with the IRS?

Conversely though the US Postal Service does tend to keep up with UPS/Fedex/DHL and in a lot of cases does better.  It's USUALLY cheaper, USUALLY faster, has more locations, and has Saturday delivery with no extra cost.  The private sector really only shines with extraordinarily large packages.  

That said though, I dunno.  There's a lot of issues to consider.  I can kinda see it both ways.  Particularly with the way private insurance has behaved in the past.  My brother for example works construction - his employer doesn't offer health coverage, and he, despite making an ok living (his only debt is his house, which he largely built himself and only has $65k invested in, but not much is left over) just couldn't afford health coverage for a while.  About 8-9 months ago though he managed to budget for it and took out a private insurance plan for his whole family.  It had a high annual deductible - $3000, but he just wanted to make sure he has something for that just in case something really bad happens scenario.  Fastforward a bit, and his wife was hospitalized a month ago - was having bad pains etc. Turns out she had to have her gaul bladder out.  No big deal - my brother was willing to pay his $3000 deductible.  HOWEVER, even though this was a sporadic incident that cropped up with no prior diagnosis, the insurance company is wanting to claim that it was preexisting and that they don't have to pay.  Hospital bills on this are breaking $40,000.  

Just about every other person I know has caught hell trying to get insurance to pay for anything other than a doctor's visit, even when they have insurance.  I have state insurance myself and it's crazy the amount of restrictions you get.  Wanted to have my wisdom tooth out and it's below the gum line (impacted) so that falls under medical insurance, but my normal oral surgeon isn't covered by my plan.  My normal doctor that I see is covered by it but they do in-house bloodwork and their lab ISN'T covered, so despite having insurance and the doctor having the capability to do the tests at his office, I have to go to 1 doctor to be seen and then make a 40 minute drive to a separate laboratory that is covered to have any bloodwork done.   If there weren't so many "gotchas" and "we don't cover thats" going around people might view private insurance in a better light.  As it is it seems like the whole industry is absolutely centered around raking in as much money as possible and then looking for every bit of legal redtape and loopholes to avoid paying anything when needed.  

As it is, I think the answer might be a bit more regulations on the private sector rather than a full government takeover, but overall I think the INSURANCE system (not necessarily the medical system) is largely broken.

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2009, 05:34:44 AM »
government restrictions are distastefull enough, even though they may be needed! No one thinks that the system is peachy, But to have the government(as in government run medical plan) having more say in our private lives is an abomination and any liberty loving free man should resent the attempt.
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2009, 06:03:59 AM »
Part of the reason for high insurance rates is no competition.  The government needs to allow medical insurance to cross state lines like auto insurance.  It would lower rates.  Also tort reform to limit malpractice awards.  Start incrementally and see what happens first before you allow the government to take over. 

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2009, 07:44:21 AM »
The gov't has NO incentive to do this correctly. If and when they are the only game in town, it will begin to offer less service and a lot more attitude. I defy you to name one gov't service that you enjoy dealing with. I'll go so far as to ask you to name one that you don't dread dealing with.

I will take a pay cut by the time this is all over. My employer picks up most of the cost of my health insurance. I cover the rest, and I choose what level of coverage I want. I'm pretty doggon healthy, I make it a point in my daily life to not do stupid things that endanger my health. I pay attention to who I'm sleeping with, I don't let amatuer chemists make my prescriptions, or pain killers, I don't ride skateboards down the bleachers of the local football stadium.

It should be EXPENSIVE and HURT to be stupid. If someone else is covering your medical bills one important part of that equasion has been removed.

Niether the providor nor the patient have any interest in reducing the cost of healthcare under a gov't funded system. " I paid my taxes I demand to be covered " and " who cares the gov't says I only work 8hrs or 9 cases a day I'm going home let third shift finish these sutures ".

How in the heck has your right to healthcare, become my responsibility? You have 2nd ammendment rights, do I need to buy my neighbors guns and ammo? You have the right to any religious faith, is it my responsibility to build you a church? You have the right to vote your conscience, is it my responsibility to pick you up and take you to the polls?
**Concealed Carry...Because when seconds count help is only minutes away**

Offline Redtail1949

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2009, 08:17:21 AM »
seems to me that to get the coverage for the ones they will cover under their plan could have been done a whole lot cheaper. you would not have to upset the others that have health coverage. lets see 1.2 trillion or so hmm divide in half tell those that need help go get it and pay for it with half the amount. i bet it could be done even cheaper than that.

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2009, 08:17:58 AM »
Billy Graham had some statistics out in the 70's which said 85% of people in the hospital were there because of a preventable disease or illness.  Smoking, excessive drinking, drug abuse, stress related illness, type II diabetes, obesity, fights, gang crime incidents, domestic violence, STD's  All this causes car wrecks, heart attacks, strokes, disease, pain, suffering, etc.  Clean up the person or people, and medical costs go way down.  

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2009, 08:30:58 AM »
Its not because of the waste that would creep in under their leadership , nor the abuses of power assoicated with it that would surface , not even the death boards , even the idea of someone choosing my doctor for me isn't the reason .
 Really it is very simple , 1- govt. is not a business it is suppose to watch business and make sure it is fair and honest with the American people . 2 Just how can govt. be in the business and watch dog it at the same time ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Swampman

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2009, 08:44:06 AM »
I can't afford free health care.  The government screws up everything they touch.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2009, 09:40:49 AM »
I know a lot of small business who will be working for cash.  I hope there is a huge backlash next fall.  I hate for people to suffer, but I hope the unemployment rate is high and prices start the upward spiral to get these socialists out of office.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2009, 09:41:49 AM »
Work for cash ? why they are making it worthless .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2009, 09:51:28 AM »
Someone pays cash for work performed.  Worker doesn't report it on income tax.  Remember this health care bill will take out 2.xx something % additional tax out of your income.  Lower income with unreported cash, lower taxes. 

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2009, 09:55:12 AM »
You realize they want/are going to a no cash system ? Everything will be on a card and taxes will come out at time of transaction .
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2009, 10:04:55 AM »
Are you saying you pay the tax when you use the doctor or hospital?  I thought it was an added income tax. 

Offline gypsyman

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2009, 10:19:18 AM »
This is the govt. reaching out for more control. You can't tell me that they want to ''insure'' everybody. They want to be able to dictate who gets treatment, and who doesn't. 75 year old will die from a treatable dieasease, but will ''cost to much''. It's going on in many other country's now. Or, how about the fact, when the ''director'' looks at your medical record, and notice's you have a ''R'' or a ''D'' next to your name, and he/she is not, I'll bet you can be put on hold for quite a long time. gypsyman
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2009, 10:22:54 AM »
Are you saying you pay the tax when you use the doctor or hospital?  I thought it was an added income tax. 

Sounds like he was moreso making predictions on how taxes will be handled in general in the future rather than for this specific plan.

I can say though that as someone who handles the technical issues behind (property) tax collection from a software standpoint, that we're a LONG way from deducting it all from the same spot.  The amount of clauses, exemptions, this, and that just in my own state's property tax laws will make your head spin.  We spend the entire year getting assessments right preparing for the billing cycle.  Calculating everything on the fly would be mind bogglingly complex (and error prone).  Like I said I work with property taxes so income tax isn't something that I know much about, but I'd assume it's equally if not more complex.

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Why don't you like government administered health care?
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2009, 10:28:55 AM »
Hello...............insurance aint gonna be a "right" when the government is in control. Its gonna be a Law, you will buy it get however, and if not you will pay fines and or do jail time. "We" better wake up people this not just a political struggle here between parties its an attempt to take control of this country!  

The leftist Dems are willing to lose control of congress to get this so they will be in power forever! If they control your ability to get medical attention and who gets it they control the country!  

Does wealth redistribution ring a bell?  The obama supporters are gonna get free insurance and medical care and the middle class and rich are gonna pay for it! Oh and guess whats gonna happen to your company insurance? its gonna go away!
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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."