Author Topic: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended  (Read 1631 times)

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Offline Double D

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Offline subdjoe

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2009, 04:54:44 AM »
Notice they didn't bother to tell their guests about it. So, one gun at 8 a.m. and the Anthem. And another at sunset, and I presume the Anthem again. Total of what, 5 minutes from their day? I think the phrase here is "get a life."  And, didn't the idjits stop to think that if they were near her, they would hear it?  Maybe I'll move next to a dairy farm, or feed lot, and complain about the smell.
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Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2009, 05:00:53 AM »
I'd tell them sure we'll quit shooting when the court says so untill then shut up ! And then with months of publicity over the arguement we'll take our show on the road to find a home port in Wilmington or Charlston harbor .

NYC thrives on noise and confution !!!!!!

Philly or DC could probably handle it ?

Of course with a full broadside aimmed into the heart of the city 1.5 normal charge ! as we shoved off . just to say ....well bye

Isnt it one shot twice a day ? nobodies ever said NO to them .

It's proly easier to shut up the wooden Constitution than the paper one .
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2009, 06:01:55 AM »
If I were Emperor of the Boston coast, I would have my sensitive eared compatriots brought to the historic ship, (gently, and respectfully, mind you) where they could be put in close proximity with the offending ordnance, and perhaps after they were familiarized with the artillery in this manner, they might feel the need to make some room in their cluttered hearts, so as to free up some space where they could then implant a greater fondness for their glorious heritage.

 
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline BoomLover

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2009, 06:07:19 AM »
Speaking of moving next to a dairy and complaining about the smell, people did that in Southern Calif, so the dairies closed, the land was sold to developers, and now there are condos on former productive lands. No dairies left, dairy products cost more, 'cause there are less of them...progress!
"Beware the Enemy With-in, for these are perilous times! Those who promise to protect and defend our Constitution, but do neither, should be evicted from public office in disgrace!

Offline subdjoe

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2009, 06:08:59 AM »
Maybe Capt. Cooper (not sure of his rank, but he commands a ship of the line, so he gets the title) COULD go to something like this:

[yt=425,350]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/B0Cn-btAkeI&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/B0Cn-btAkeI&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/yt]

I'd take that as neighborly, woudn't you?
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline subdjoe

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2009, 06:11:52 AM »
Speaking of moving next to a dairy and complaining about the smell, people did that in Southern Calif, so the dairies closed, the land was sold to developers, and now there are condos on former productive lands. No dairies left, dairy products cost more, 'cause there are less of them...progress!

Yep, I watched it happen.  I grew up across Hwy 78 from the Golden Arrow Dariry in Vista, San Diego Co.  Got kind of ripe sometimes. But, they let us play on the stack of hay bales, and there were machines so we could feed the calves, or watch the milking.  Then it got built up and it had to close. 
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline GGaskill

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Re: socialist residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2009, 01:17:01 PM »
Regarding the dairies in southern California, it was/is simply a replay of the orange groves of 70 years ago.  The land becomes worth more for development because more and more people want to live here.  There have been several phases of dairy displacements, each time moving farther to the east.  Now they are moving out of the state, I think. 

The dairies are also facing pollution control requirements for the runoff from the cow dung.  So it is easier for them to sell out for vast sums and move elsewhere. 

Regarding the Boston groupies, fire a whole broadside (with shot) at them until they move out.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline dan610324

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2009, 02:18:12 PM »
thats music for my ears
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline Ex 49'er

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2009, 08:38:29 PM »
Speaking of moving next to a dairy and complaining about the smell, people did that in Southern Calif, so the dairies closed, the land was sold to developers, and now there are condos on former productive lands. No dairies left, dairy products cost more, 'cause there are less of them...progress!

Happy cows live in Kaliforny.
Happy cannon shooters live in Kaliforny, too.
Keelhaul the disgruntled groupies.    ;D
When you're walking on eggs; don't hop!!

Offline brokenpole

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2009, 12:36:53 AM »
Other nearby residents agreed, including 52-year-old Elizabeth Ames, who lives in a luxury development called The Nautica.

“This is the heart of the city’s history,” Ames said. “If you don’t like it, don’t live here.”


Can we get this lady to run for office?  Imagine someone with some common sense in the hallowed walls of Washington or even Boston.

Offline Victor3

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2009, 01:19:35 AM »
"Regarding the dairies in southern California, it was/is simply a replay of the orange groves of 70 years ago."

 There are several areas in the San Fernando Valley where a majority of the lots have avocado trees on them. Developers bought up groves and left trees in the yards. Good incentive for an avocado lover to buy a home in the neighborhood. Considering the current demographic profile, I imagine many people who live there eat a lot of guacamole. :)
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline Victor3

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2009, 02:20:45 AM »


 

 Uh.... What exactly is going on in this photo, Boom J?

 I don't suppose an 'after' pic would be appropriate to show here if this is a 'before' one...
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2009, 03:09:16 AM »
From the end of 1857, the British had begun to gain ground again. Lucknow was retaken in March 1858. On 8 July 1858, a peace treaty was signed and the war ended. The last rebels were defeated in Gwalior on 20 June 1858. By 1859, rebel leaders Bakht Khan and Nana Sahib had either been slain or had fled. "As well as hanging mutineers, the British had some "blown from cannon"-- an old Mughal punishment adopted many years before in India. A method of execution midway between firing squad and hanging but more demonstrative, sentenced rebels were set before the mouth of cannons and blown to pieces." [87] In terms of sheer numbers, the casualties were significantly higher on the Indian side. A letter published after the fall of Delhi in the "Bombay Telegraph" and reproduced in the British press testified to the scale and nature of the retaliation:

.... All the city people found within the walls (of the city of Delhi) when our troops entered were bayoneted on the spot, and the number was considerable, as you may suppose, when I tell you that in some houses forty and fifty people were hiding. These were not mutineers but residents of the city, who trusted to our well-known mild rule for pardon. I am glad to say they were disappointed. [88]
Another brief letter from General Montgomery to Captain Hodson, the conqueror of Delhi exposes how the British military high command approved of the cold blooded massacre of Delhites: "All honour to you for catching the king and slaying his sons. I hope you will bag many more!"

Another comment on the conduct of the British soldiers after the fall of Delhi is of Captain Hodson himself in his book, Twelve years in India: "With all my love for the army, I must confess, the conduct of professed Christians, on this occasion, was one of the most humiliating facts connected with the siege." (Hodson was killed during the recapture of Lucknow in early 1858).

Edward Vibart, a 19-year-old officer, also recorded his experience:
It was literally murder... I have seen many bloody and awful sights lately but such a one as I witnessed yesterday I pray I never see again. The women were all spared but their screams on seeing their husbands and sons butchered, were most painful... Heaven knows I feel no pity, but when some old grey bearded man is brought and shot before your very eyes, hard must be that man's heart I think who can look on with indifference...

Some British troops adopted a policy of "no prisoners". One officer, Thomas Lowe, remembered how on one occasion his unit had taken 76 prisoners - they were just too tired to carry on killing and needed a rest, he recalled. Later, after a quick trial, the prisoners were lined up with a British soldier standing a couple of yards in front of them. On the order "fire", they were all simultaneously shot, "swept... from their earthly existence". This was not the only mass execution Lowe participated in: on another occasion his unit took 149 prisoners, and they were lined up and simultaneously shot.

As a result, the end of the war was followed by the execution of a vast majority of combatants from the Indian side as well as large numbers of civilians perceived to be sympathetic to the rebel cause. The British press and government did not advocate clemency of any kind, though Governor General Canning tried to be sympathetic to native sensibilities, earning the scornful sobriquet "Clemency Canning". Soldiers took very few prisoners and often executed them later. Whole villages were wiped out for apparent pro-rebel sympathies.

The aftermath of the rebellion has been the focus of new work using Indian sources and population studies. In The Last Mughal, William Dalrymple examines the effects on the Muslim population of Delhi after the city was retaken by the British and finds that intellectual and economic control of the city shifted from Muslim to Hindu hands because the British, at that time, saw an Islamic hand behind the mutiny. [89] Amaresh Mishra, a journalist and history student, after examining labor force records for the period, concludes that almost ten million Indians lost their lives during the reprisals though his methodology is disputed because it neither accounts for unrelated causes of deaths nor for the movement and displacement of the population that likely followed that period of unrest. It has to be noted that Mishra's version of events is dramatically different from the traditional view held by most historians. Accounting for these factors, another historian, Saul David, estimates the number of deaths to be in the hundreds of thousands [90] .

RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Victor3

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2009, 03:27:19 AM »
 Lovely.
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline Double D

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2009, 03:31:09 AM »
Okay so bring back on topic...about them trying to silence Old Ironsides

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2009, 07:09:21 AM »
Some background info:  Two of the repro cast iron cannon aboard CONSTITUTION were bored and fitted internally with 40mm Mark 11 salute guns.  These were conventional Bofors AA guns, cut down and made single-shot vice full-auto.  In the Navy they are always used in pairs for firing salutes.  A false breech was made to cover the salute gun's breechring and operating lever which protrude from the cutoff cast-iron cannon's  breech.  This was done while I worked in the Navy's gun office in DC, and I got photos of the work and results, which are still at home somewhere.

The primary salute round used is a steel Bofors 40MM cartridge case, cut about in half lengthwise so the profile is nearly straight-sided, no longer bottlenecked, which facilitates loading the blank charge at the weapons station or contractor.  The primary-issue round contains 450 grams of black cannon powder and a glued-in wad.  In the 40mm Mk 11 salute gun, which has about a four-foot barrel, the round produces an extremely loud report, which is good unless you have to stand at attention in front of the guns during a salute, which I often did duriing Wednesday afternoon parades at USNA.  The number of shots of course varies with the rank of the dignitary saluted, from 13 guns for a rear admiral, to 21 for a Head of State.  The two guns when assigned to shore stations are mounted on a small flatbed trailer.

There is another 40MM salute round available containing only 50 grams of powder, intended for salutes done inside armories etc. during ceremonies held indoors due to inclement weather.

Offline subdjoe

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2009, 08:39:07 AM »
I just had a horrid thought - if this doens't work, will they go after it on gounds of pollution and excess CO2?
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2009, 08:44:09 AM »
Can't hear it from my house so let her fly !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2009, 10:46:18 AM »
What exactly is going on in this photo, Boom J?

Victor,
That's a painting, not a photo; I can't see the British Army allowing a scene like that to be photographed, even at the height of their military power. 
 
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Double D

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2009, 10:55:05 AM »
Noise, Boston, Ironsides! Take the other discussion to PM please.

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2009, 10:58:36 AM »
cannonmn                    
Senior Member     Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
                        « Reply #17 on: Today at 12:09:21 PM »

That's some interesting information, Cannonmn; I didn't know that.





 
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline p51

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2009, 07:39:28 PM »
I work very close to Ft Lewis, and they fire artillery and set off demo charges most in the spring, and it never fails each spring that someone who moved in over the winter calls or goes to the gate, yelling at them to stop all the noise. When it was still an open post (around 1999), I was running support for a FA live fire on the back 40 range. A local guy had apparently been woken up by 105 rounds and he drove onto the post looking for someone to yell at. Mind you, this was around 1100 and we hadn’t sent the first round downrange until around 0930 or 1000. He got to my people first and I was the highest ranking person he got to. He yelled at me to stop right away because we were making too much noise. Trying not to laugh, I heard him out. After he’d run out of steam, I reminded him that the Army had been there since 1917, we blew stuff up there every spring and summer since then, and if you move next to a military post he should expect that, same as someone who moves next to an airport then complains about the noise from the planes. When he started cursing, I calmly told him he wasn’t going to stop us, he could write to the commanding general if he wanted but in the end, he had to either learn to live with it or move elsewhere. My NCOs behind him were trying not to bust out laughing. When he started threatening me, I took out a pad and without a word, took down his truck’s license plate number and asked to see his license. Now, THAT took him aback!
"When all else fails, call for indirect fire on your position, AND GET THE HELL OUT!"
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Offline GGaskill

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2009, 08:23:40 PM »
You didn't call the MPs to remove the fellow?
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
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Offline Double D

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2009, 02:14:39 AM »
When I moved to Northen Virginia in 2002 I lived for a period in Stafford, VA. Ever now and then you could hear the Marines at work on Quantico...you could be talking to a local person and an explosion or a series of explosion would be heard and the local would say "ah the sound of Freedom" I heard that so many times, it was almost like a motto to locals.

Offline Sunrise

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2009, 08:39:39 AM »
I'd tell them sure we'll quit shooting when the court says so untill then shut up ! And then with months of publicity over the arguement we'll take our show on the road ...  
NYC thrives on noise and confution !!!!!!

Sadly, that is incorrect. The Harlem Yacht Club's tradition of firing a 10 gauge blank cannon at sunset was legally prohibited after similar noise complaints by busybody neighbours. See:

(1) http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9404EFDE1638F934A1575AC0A9629C8B63;

(2) http://gothamist.com/2007/05/12/hark_the_cannon.php;

(3) http://www.nylegalupdate.com/2007/05/court_rejects_c.html;

(4) http://www.nycourts.gov/reporter/3dseries/2007/2007_04053.htm.

I reminded him that the Army had been there since 1917, we blew stuff up there every spring and summer since then, and if you move next to a military post he should expect that, same as someone who moves next to an airport then complains about the noise from the planes.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturges_v_Bridgman.  :(

Offline thelionspaw

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2009, 04:04:53 PM »
That's interesting because City Island is opposite the NYPD outdoor firing range on Rodman's Neck where about 40K rounds are fired daily and the Bomb Squad disposal unit uses it when necessary. I remember when a concussion shattered windows in City Island and the facility is still there :o and has been since about 1959 with no opposition that matters.

The residents were given a choice between guns and bombs every day or the Emerald Society Bag Pipes tuning-up just on Saint Patrick's Day. :-\

Guess what!? ;D
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Offline p51

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2009, 05:40:59 PM »
You didn't call the MPs to remove the fellow?
No, it would have taken forever for them to have gotten there as the MP station is pretty far from where we were and I didn’t have a cell. I would have had to have called the Range Control over the radio and then have them call the MPs. It would have taken forever (had to do that very thing a few months before that). The guy got the point and left. That wasn’t the only time I saw that kind of thing there.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturges_v_Bridgman
Thankfully, that does not apply to, say, an airport or military base (I’m no lawyer but I’d bet large heavy industry and government operations probably don’t apply). I looked into it after the first experience I had with that. But it might apply in the case of Old Ironsides someday.
"When all else fails, call for indirect fire on your position, AND GET THE HELL OUT!"
-Exact words of one of my 'call for fire' class instructors.
Former US Army Ordnance officer and lover of all things what go BOOM!

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Liberal residents want salutes from CONSTITUTION ended
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2009, 07:05:47 PM »
Actually if you read that Sturges vs Bridgman article, it specifically says that one can't move into an area that is a concentrated industrial area and then sue for nuisance so I would think a military base would be exempt on that basis.  It's set up the way it is specifically to separate residential use from other uses.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill