This year I tried a completly new muzzleloading loading system. Myself, my wife, and our 12 year son are using our CVA Optima,Wolf, and Optim Elite. I used the White Hots pellets and the 250 grain Havester Saber Tooth bullets. At the range we were getting one inch groups at fifity yards. The area we are hunting is planted pines with a forty five to fifity yard shot at the most. Well my wife got a six piont, my son got a 200lb. sow and I got a seven point during a three day hunt. All the shots went slap through and we only had to trail my seven point for a short distance. I am impressed with the White Hot loads and the bullets and plan to use this set up next year.