Author Topic: More newbie Questions  (Read 1194 times)

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Offline 1Longbow

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More newbie Questions
« on: November 10, 2009, 02:10:35 PM »
Well I got my left hand New Englander (50.cal) I picked up some pre lubed patches (T/C .018 Thickness) the patches seem very dry,should they be moist ? I also picked up some some .490 RB's is there a certain thickness of patch that I should use?  Thank you --1Longbow

Offline S.S.

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Re: More newbie Questions
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2009, 03:13:19 PM »
Don't want a patch too lubed up. moisture from it will soak
into your powder charge. Without using a mike on your bore to
get a true reading, it is sometimes difficult to get the patch thickness
exactly right. The combination you have will probably be a tight fit.
try it and see.
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline 1Longbow

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Re: More newbie Questions
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2009, 03:38:08 PM »
S.S you are correct I shot the gun today and it was a very tight fit. Hard to get the patch and ball started. I use my ball starter, but was afraid that I might deform the ball somewhat. The gun shot high left but grouped them pretty good(3 inches)--- 1Longbow

Offline Trapper-Jack

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Re: More newbie Questions
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2009, 01:35:35 PM »
For my patch material I go to Walmart and buy their pillow ticking.  They have two thicknesses.  The blue or red striped tick is about 18-20 thousands thick.  Then they have some flowered print pillow ticking that is about 10-12 thousands thick.  I was always taught that the correct thickness of patching was  when a patched ball is started into the barrel and then removed, it should have a heavy imprint of the material where the rifling were and a faint imprint where the groves are. 
Thanks,
Trapper Jack

Offline Ironwood

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Re: More newbie Questions
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2009, 02:31:21 PM »
1Longbow,  You normally will have to use your short starter to get the patched ball started.  Once the ball is started down the barrel with the short starter it should go on down the barrel smoothly but tight.  Like Trapper Jack said, the patch needs to be thick enough to deeply engrave the ball over the lands, and very slightly engrave the ball over the grooves.  As long as the patch has a slight amount of lube it will do fine.  Just be sure you patch is 100% cotton, no synthetics.

Here's a patched ball I discharged with a CO² discharger.  Bet you never thought about cotton being harder than lead. 
 
     
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Offline Ron T.

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Re: More newbie Questions
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2009, 09:18:05 AM »
Well I got my left hand New Englander (50.cal) I picked up some pre lubed patches (T/C .018 Thickness) the patches seem very dry,should they be moist ? I also picked up some some .490 RB's is there a certain thickness of patch that I should use?  Thank you --1Longbow


Longbow...

Generally, a "cut patch" is often a better patch... and it's a lot less expensive as well.  A "cut patch" starts out as a piece of pure cotton material like pillow ticking or denim, the same material that jeans or Levi's are made of.

You'll need a precision measuring device like one inch micrometer or a good caliper to measure the thickness of the patching material and a good dial caliper or a digital caliper to measure the width of your rifle's bore... groove-to-groove.

My .50 caliber Traditions Shenandoah flintlock likes a .016" patch (loose measurement) with a .490 lead ball, but different rifles "like" different thicknesses of patching material... depending on their groove diameter.

Let's say your rifle's groove-to-groove diameter measures exactly .50 caliber or .500" and you're using .490 lead balls.  The difference is .010", but remember... the soft cotton patching material will "crush down" when forced down between the ball and the steel barrel of your rifle, so you must allow for that.

If you use a set of 1 inch micrometers, you can put pressure on the cloth at the store where you're buying it... and as you'll see, a piece of cloth that measures .016" (loose measurement) when the micrometer is turned down LIGHTLY against it will only measure .006" to .007" (tight measurement) if you REALLY tighten the micrometer down HARD on the cloth.

Since the patch material is what puts the spin on your rifle ball... and the patching material crushes down when squeezed between the steel rifle barrel and the soft lead ball, you need to use a material that will measure close to .010" (.500" - .490" = .010") when it is also "squeezed" between the ball and the barrel.

And so, when checking the thickness of the material, turn the jaws of the micrometer down solidly on the material.  This will give you a more accurate measurement of the "squeezed-down thickness" of the patching material you then measuring.

You might buy a square yard each of denim or pillow ticking that measures .013", .015" and .017"... and see which one, when lubricated, fits tight, but not so tight that it's very hard to seat the patched ball on the powder... and gives you the best accuracy.  Use the other two patching material for cleaning patches so nothing is wasted.

When seating the patched ball, the ball should give you SOME resistance as you ramrod it down the barrel, but not so much resistance that it is actually difficult to seat the ball.

Of course, you need to lubricate the patch.  There are many different commercial "lubricants" on the market, but possibly the most popular "lub" is your own natural saliva or "SPIT"!  A dry patch will be hard to seat even if it isn't very "tight", but a well-lubricated patch should slide right down the barrel with only a medium amount of resistance once you get it "started".

If possible, you should join a local black powder shooter's club... making sure some of the active members shoot traditional (percussion cap and/or flintlock) rifles and smooth-bores.  The vast majority of people "into" traditional muzzle-loaders are really nice folks and they'll be glad to help and advise you.  This will definitely "short-cut" the "learning process" for you... and very possibly save you a lot of heartaches.

The first thing to do with any patch material is WASH IT in a washing machine with soap to take out the chemical stiffners the manufactures put in cloth material.

Now... how to do the "cut patch"...

Using a "cut patch" is the traditional way to patch your rifle ball.  You wash the patch material and dry it, then cut it into 2-inch strips (for a .50 caliber rifle).  After you put the powder charge down the barrel, take the strip of patching material in your hand and either put the end of it into your mouth and wet it with saliva or put some commercial lubricant on the patch, making SURE you spread the lub out to the top and bottom of the patching material and at least 1½ to 2 inches wide.  You do this to insure any part of the patch that touches the rifle's barrel will be lubricated.

Center the lubricated patching material over the center of the bore (lub'ed side down), place the ball in the center of the lubricated area of the patching material and hit it with a rubber hammer and drive it and the surrounding patch down as far as you can with the rubber hammer... i.e., with one or two good "smacks", you should drive it down level with the face of the muzzle. 

Then take the short starter and either using just the curved part of the short starter's "ball" or the very short nub of the short starter, smack the patched ball with the rubber hammer to drive the patched ball about 1/8 of an inch BELOW the face of the muzzle so that when you cut off the patch, your knife won't nick the soft lead rifle ball & ruin its accuracy.

Then... using the face of the muzzle as a "guide", take a very sharp knife and cut off the patch as close as you can to the face of the barrel.  Once this is done, use the longer stud of the short starter to "start the patched ball" down the barrel.  Then finish off the seating of the patched ball with the ramrod.

Do NOT "prime" the pan (flintlock rifle) or put a cap on the nipple (percussion cap rifle) until you are on the line, ready to fire... or are seated at the bench and will be "bench-resting" the rifle for the shot.
 
Don't be afraid to try different amounts of lubrication... or different kinds of lubrication on the patch.  And be PATIENT... it takes time to figure out what rifle ball, what patch, what powder (FFFg or FFg) to use and what amount of that powder to use.

Good luck !~!~!    ;)


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."  - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Glanceblamm

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Re: More newbie Questions
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2009, 02:58:08 AM »
I can remember bouncing back n forth trying this & that until I bought that first bag of OX-Yoke patches then I never looked back.

I pop em in my mouth (read spit patch) for short range sessions.

I soak them a little In Hoppe's #13 black powder solvent for longer range sessions.

Or put just a thin smear of bore butter, T/C Maxi-ball lube, or the like on em for deer or Squirrel hunting.

Offline Bladeforger

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Re: More newbie Questions
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2009, 03:02:50 PM »
I've been using the Thompson Center Bore Butter for patch lube.  I've started lubing the patches up BEFORE I go to the range with 'em.  Then I drop the lubed patches loose into a plastic box (like those cheap, almost disposable food storage boxes).  I've been buying round patches, but I'll start cutting my own before long--gotta figure out a good way to punch out circles.  Probably a piece of pipe or tubing the right size with the front sharpened up on a belt sander will work.  Soon as I get short on all these patches I bought, I'll be finding out.

Putting the lube on the patches ahead of time lets me get a little bit but not too much.  I squeeze out a nickel-size gob on the palm of my hand and run the patches through it wiping off the excess on the rest of my palm.  I lube the whole patch, both sides, because I don't want to have to stop and figure out which way to turn the patch at the range.

Offline Winter Hawk

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Re: More newbie Questions
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2009, 11:14:49 AM »
I use a trip of pillow ticking from Walmart, 2" wide and a yard long (you can get a whole bunch of these from one yard of material).  Lightly prelube with olive oil, roll up and store in a plastic pill bottle,  When you are loading, after dumping your powder down the barrel, lay the last inch or so across the rifle's muzzle, center the ball with the sprue up, then push it down until it is al the way into the muzzle (I use the butt of my sheath knife for this).  Then cut the patching across the muzzle and ram the ball the rest of the way down with the ramrod.

If you are doing a range session and don't want to prelube, just give the patch material a lick with your tongue.  That will get it moist enough.  I have done this for rabbit hunting and taril shoots also, as long as you aren't going to have the load in the rifle all day.

Good luck, and above all, have fun!

-Winter Hawk-
"All you need for happiness is a good gun, a good horse and a good wife." - D. Boone

Offline Semisane

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Re: More newbie Questions
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2009, 02:36:33 PM »
Quote
I've been buying round patches, but I'll start cutting my own before long--gotta figure out a good way to punch out circles

Don't even bother Bladeforger.   I've conducted extensive test of round vs. square patches in two .54 caliber barrels and one .58.  There was no discernable difference in accuracy/group size.  I now cut all of my patches 1-3/8" square and use them in both calibers.
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Offline Trapper-Jack

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Re: More newbie Questions
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2009, 02:16:43 AM »
Semisane is right.  There isn't any differance in accuracy when using round or square patches.  I think the important thing is to get a good gas seal around the ball. 
Thanks,
Trapper Jack

Offline Bladeforger

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Re: More newbie Questions
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2009, 05:48:00 PM »
Don't even bother Bladeforger.   I've conducted extensive test of round vs. square patches in two .54 caliber barrels and one .58.  There was no discernable difference in accuracy/group size.  I now cut all of my patches 1-3/8" square and use them in both calibers.
Semisane is right.  There isn't any differance in accuracy when using round or square patches.  I think the important thing is to get a good gas seal around the ball. 

THANKS!!! I was wondering about that, but wasn't sure.  Now that I know I can skip the extra work.   ;D