True-False...Fact or Fiction?

[RIFLE MAN]

Do you believe the following questions are...true or false...fact or fiction?
1. Lever action rifles are inherently inaccurate?
2. No lever action rifle should be used for shots over 150 yards?
3. ONLY flat nosed bullets should be placed in tubular magazines?
4. Pre-64 Winchesters are BETTER MADE than post-64?
5. Trapper length lever guns are less accurate because they are shorter?

Kindest regards,
Rifle Man  

[Car Knocker]

My .308 BLR is as accurate as any off-the-shelf production bolt action that I've used and is just getting warmed up at 150 yards.

[Graycg]

1. Winchester 88, Sako and Browning BLR prove that false.
2.  Chamberings like 7-30, 284 win, 7mm-08, 308, 358, 30-06, 307, 356, 7mm Mag available today would make that false.
3.  Flat or blunt round nosed bullets should be used in all tubular magazines with the exception of the Remington tubes used on thier pump actions that are spiraled to keep the bullets nose off the primer of the round in front of it-OR-  you can load one in the chamber and one in the magazine only with pointed bullets.
4. Pre-64 winchesters really mostly applies to model 70's many of the hated changes to the model 94 were made prior to 1964.  Current Winchesters...really FN's are damn fine guns.  They did make some crappy guns during the late 60s and early 70s though.
5. If shorter barrels are less accurate you couldn't convince my 10 and 14 inch contenders of it....old lore did state that longer barrels were more accurate, and in the days of iron sights, that was probably true given the longer sight radius offered by the longer barrel.  I think if you scoped a trapper 16 inch and an XTR 24 they would shoot similarly.

Graycg opines....

[cocojo]

1. False
2. False
3. True
4 .True
5. False

[williamlayton]

dagone good question-well written.
have always preferred lever action to anything. course distance has been over rated in my thought process.
the only thing that i know about the bullet question is tha some agree with the two previous post and some do not. i, personally, have the same fear they do. could be perception..
the original .30-.30 is a good round fer most anything in my neck of tha woods.
pre 64's have a reputation--but tha new ones seem to enjoy good press also.
brush gun works for me.

[Lawdog]

I'll answer the same way that cocojo did.

1.]  False
2.]  False
3.]  True
4.]  False
5.]  Toss-up

Lawdog

[Winter Hawk]

I'll give it a shot.
1) False - My Win. 88 shoots as well for me as I can make a bolt rifle shoot, albeit the trigger is terrible.
2) False - I imagine that the 88 would do for more than 150 yards, if I felt confidant in my shooting abilities.  However, the longest shot I have taken paced out at 125 yards for a one neck shot kill.
3) Okay, I remember reading somewhere that this is not really true.  The writer said that there are no documented cases of a pointed bullet causing the next round to go off in a tubular magazine.  But with the ever-present threat of lawsuits the gun manufacturers aren't going to change the common perception of safety.
4) Maybe - I bought my first Win. 94 in '63.  I bought another for my wife in '67, and ended up trading it off for a Marlin.  It was junk, from the chrome plated receiver (at least that's what it looked like under the bluing, when it peeled off) to the feed assembly which jammed if you looked crosswise at it.  I don't know if there has been any improvement since then.
5) False - I think Graycg has it right, plus the fact that there is more mass with a longer barrel which tends to steady things down.  It's not more accurate, it compensates for a less steady shooter.  

My opinions, not necessarily based on facts!
-Kees-

[Mikey]

False on all counts.  Mikey.

[winfan]

"1. Winchester 88, Sako and Browning BLR prove that false"
[/quote]

Does Sako make a lever action?

[Graycg]

They did, I have a custom stocked one in 308....looks a little like the Winney 88, but much more rifined.

regards,
 Graycg

[Johm D M]

It is obvious that none of us are gunwriters as we all know the right answers not what we have read. Gianni.

[williamlayton]

i'm thinkin mikey is correct. false on all accounts.
blessings

[Rick Teal]

I'm with mikey and williamlayton.  All are false.

[Lawdog]

ONLY flat nosed bullets should be placed in tubular magazines?

I have got to disagree with the idea that it is safe to use pointed bullets in a tubular magazine.  As an LEO I have seen many photos(police lab photos) of tubular magazine rifles that had cartridges detonate in the magazine because of the use of pointed bullets.  Rifles were both Win. and Marlin and most were .30-30 caliber.  The practice of loading one cartridge in the magazine and one in the chamber is a very un-safe.  Stick with the bullets that are designed for tubular magazine rifles and you won't jeopardize your hospital insurance.  Lawdog

[Rick Teal]

Lawdog:

I saw some of the studies on detonating cartridges in a tubular magazine, and I just have a gut feeling that you are right.  However, round nosed bullets work well in them when loaded in low powered cartridges like the 30-30, and some bullets with concave tips work as well.  The statement that only flat noses work is (therefore) false.

[Lawdog]

Rick,

It all depends on how you read the statement.  

ONLY flat nosed bullets should be placed in tubular magazines?

 A false answer could be read as to mean it is therefore ok to use ANY TYPE bullet.  Then the statement would be true.  Kind of like whether the glass is half full or half empty?  Although one of the rifles that I seen was a Marlin 336 .30-30 that a guy loaded(hot I'll bet) with 150 gr. round nose bullets and it detonated in the magazine causing the guy to loose the three middle fingers on his right hand(he was a lefty).  I admit there could(and most likely were) have been other factors that were involved in this case but the fact remained if he would have had flat nose bullets in there would it still have happened??  I would hate to tell some fellow new to shooting and reloading that it was okay to use round nose bullets and then have him run off and get a box of RN-FMJ's and use them in his .30-30.  Lawdog

[Inpursuit]

I'd have to say false to all of them except the one about pointed bullets in a tubular magazine.  I don't want anything pointed resting against the primer in my rifles.  Some of you might take the chance but I won't.

[williamlayton]

lots of pro's an con's here but tha fact is-specially in tha .45 and .30--it has been done fer a long time. can't speak fer any of them bigger boolits.
blessings

[Graycg]

Lawdog,
  I guess I'm thick headed, tell me why it is unsafe to load one pointed bullet in the chamber and one only in the Magazine?  The point of the bullet in the Mag is resting against the follower and the point of the round in the chamber is already in the chamber.....I don't see the danger?

regards,
 Graycg

[John Y Cannuck]

Do you believe the following questions are...true or false...fact or fiction?
1. Lever action rifles are inherently inaccurate?
False, but may need more tuning that a bolt gun.
2. No lever action rifle should be used for shots over 150 yards?
False even the 30-30 can better that in the hands of an experienced shooter.
3. ONLY flat nosed bullets should be placed in tubular magazines?
For absolute saftey, True. But questionable with some round noses
4. Pre-64 Winchesters are BETTER MADE than post-64?
For the most part, True
5. Trapper length lever guns are less accurate because they are shorter?
In that they have a shorter sight radius, True otherwise, false
Kindest regards,
Rifle Man  

[Lawdog]

Graycg,

I guess I'm thick headed, tell me why it is unsafe to load one pointed bullet in the chamber and one only in the Magazine?

Because the human memory isn't what it should be.  People forget or get in a hurry or someone else just decides to help them, being a buddy.  I just don't like to tempt fate.  Lawdog

[Swany]

Graycg,

I guess I'm thick headed, tell me why it is unsafe to load one pointed bullet in the chamber and one only in the Magazine?

Because the human memory isn't what it should be.  People forget or get in a hurry or someone else just decides to help them, being a buddy.  I just don't like to tempt fate.  Lawdog

 One other thing on a lot of lever guns you will put bullet in your case to the crimp groove on the bullet, in the case of a 150gn hornady, it will not cycle, it is too long the tip will hang up.

[MOGorilla]

Well, I'll throw my $0.02 in.  
1.  False, I have never seen one type of rifle inherently better than another, it is usually the shooter.
2.  I don't hunt, I only target shoot, so I would rarely attempt a shot over 150, but that said, I have shot a winchester model 94 30-30 at 225 and had good results.
3.  My main leveraction is a Henry rifle.  I will stick with flat nose bullets thank you.  I wouldn't feel comfortable sliding anything down the receiver on top of a pointed end.
4.  I have heard this as well, I am post 64, so and have a 30-30 from the 80s that is very sweet.
5.  I have never shot a trapper rifle, but I have shot an 1860 Colt Army, with an attached shoulder stock.  It has an 8" barrel.  At ~75 yards, off shoulder, it was equal to the afore mentioned Henry Rifle.  You can take that with a grain of salt as it was my shoulder, but I got 2.5" groups out of both.  That makes me happy.