Author Topic: why open sights?? (Read 2172 times)

pcking78 · « **on:** November 16, 2009, 05:42:52 AM »

Just got off of a deer hunt in Piedmont NWR, (not much luck, btw) and took my old 30-30 win. I love carrying it instead of my heavy scoped bolt action but I can't get over the disadvantage of open sights. Everyone here seems to like them for woods but I am just the opposite. When I'd glass the woods through my binocs, I'd notice that shooting lanes between trees, even at only 70 yards, would be difficult with the open sights. It seems much easier to pick a line through the tree limbs and branches with optics. In fact, the only way I would prefer open sights is if I was looking over a small food plot or still hunting in a thicket where the woods were absolutely too thick to shoot more than 40 yards. If there was any chance I would need to line up a shot through the trees I would much rather have a scope. I'm thinking I need to find a marlin lever or perhaps a rem. pump with a small profile scope to split the difference for a general use, open woods rifle.

Anyone else feel this way??

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #1 on:** November 16, 2009, 08:08:53 AM »

Open sights are considered quicker to get on target. They are also a whole lot cheaper than a scope, which is why most rifles sported them in days gone by. If you want a scope on your Winny, there are side mounts available. OR, you could go for a long eye relief scope set out on your barrel in the "scout" configuration. This gives you fast target acquisition, and also the magnification of a scope. Both ways you can keep carrying the Winchester.

-WH-

ScoutMan · « **Reply #2 on:** November 16, 2009, 10:14:35 AM »

Give aperture sights a try. They are leaps and bounds ahead of "opens". Without getting into a big discussion, the way to use apertures or peep sights is to look through the opening then forget the peep and concentrate on the front sight. Very fast. That's one reason they put them on military rifles.

Not to get into a heated discussion, but in terms of speed the scope is the fastest, second is the peep and last is the open.

GeorgiaDave · « **Reply #3 on:** November 28, 2009, 12:39:11 AM »

Hello,

I use a scoped rifle more than an open sighted one. BUT.....for their place an open sight rifle is just as deadly as one with a 8 X 24 X 50 Superduperthousandbuck scope. I know that I have put several thousand rounds through the open sight rifles I have and have gained a confidence in them that is both realistic as well as automatic. I have a no scope .35 Rem that I would not hesitate to shoot 150 yards at a visible target. The human eye is without a doubt the most advanced, yet most simple sighting device on the planet, so why not take advantage of it. If you are hesitant to shoot open sights, it is likely because you have not yet gained the confidence that firing several dozen boxes of rounds will bring. Once you figure out that the rifle will indeed hit what you put the sights on it will become a natural thing. Surely there are many opinions on this matter, but the fact remains the same, open sights are both efficient and effective if you work at it. I love my open sight rifles and would not hesitate to rely on them to provide sustanence for my family. This is just the opinion of a good ol Georgia country boy. Have a great day.

Dave

Dee · « **Reply #4 on:** November 28, 2009, 03:27:30 AM »

GeorgiaDave you make an excellent point of "in their place". This week I went to the Texas Panhandle for a visit, and took along what I always leave the house with. A Model 92 in 357 mag, with an apeture rear sight, and even thought about taking the ole 3030 equiped the same way. They are my most carried here in North Central Texas. It was a mistake! I should have opted for the only scoped rifle I had. The Model 92 did not fit where I was going, and what I was doing, but most importantly WHEN, which was just before full daylight.
The two power scope, would have been perfect. Age and ruts seem to go hand in hand sometimes.

mannyrock · « **Reply #5 on:** November 28, 2009, 11:59:45 AM »

The ONLY time I ever use a rifle with open sights is if I have to trail a wounded deer through thicket or timber or swamps. I love scopes, and generally they are the fastest sight on target, but sorry, they are NOT the fastest on target if the target suddenly appears close-by and is moving.

I use a lever with a ghost rear peep, and a tru-glow orange front sight. If you are tracking, and a deer jumps up and runs, then as soon as you raise that rifle, your eye is looking through the rear sight, and you just put the orange dot on the body of the moving deer and squeeze. The deer will go down.

Yea, I know its crazy to switch rifles if you have to track a deer, but I do it whenever possible.

Regards,

Mannyrock

Chas. · « **Reply #6 on:** November 28, 2009, 03:10:40 PM »

I've never even owned a scope. I have always shoot with both eyes open and when using a scope, I just can't adjust. Maybe if I owned one I would get used to it.

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #7 on:** November 29, 2009, 11:33:02 AM »

"I've never even owned a scope. I have always shoot with both eyes open and when using a scope, I just can't adjust. Maybe if I owned one I would get used to it."

Try a long eye relief scope out front on the barrel, the "scout" concept. With a low power scope (I used a 2 1/2X pistol scope) you can keep both eyes open.

-WH-

dpastordan · « **Reply #8 on:** November 29, 2009, 02:13:51 PM »

I have had more one shot kills with open sights than with a scope on big game. I love peep sights and I have nailed running deer and boar with one shot with peep sights. During rain or inclement weather, iron sights rule. I have not had good luck with scopes on big game until this season.

deernhog · « **Reply #9 on:** November 29, 2009, 03:09:35 PM »

A lever gun just don't look right with a scope on it. I have had the bad luck to need a scope a few times during low light and all I had was my .35 remington with a peep and I just could not pick up the front sight.

Dee · « **Reply #10 on:** November 29, 2009, 03:20:41 PM »

Quote from: deernhog on November 29, 2009, 03:09:35 PM

A lever gun just don't look right with a scope on it. I have had the bad luck to need a scope a few times during low light and all I had was my .35 remington with a peep and I just could not pick up the front sight.

I had that very same problem Wednesday. Aggravatin as hell wasn't it?

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #11 on:** November 29, 2009, 05:35:47 PM »

Personally I like open sights.
especally in the woods.
When I was younger I hunted in Up State NY where we had standers and drivers.
The open sights worked well when Standing and having the deer run by the open sights acted more like a a shotgun for the quick swing.
When I got a little older I gained a Step mother who's family has a farm in Eastern NC where they grow trees fro paper pulp as well as open fields. When walking through the woods there are many vines, stickers and brush that will grab any loose clothing or right angles.
When going tree rat hunting with the 22 Mag I had to break twigs, sticker, and vines that were inbetween the scope bell and the barrel.
Also with a local hunt club running dogs the deer are moving and the fast snap shot is usually there.
But back to the lever guns and scopes.
The angle eject 94 was designed for a scope. All of the marlin flat tops are scope ready. I have thought of sticking a 4X or a 2-7
on my 45-70 Marlin in occasion. Other times I think a set of Ghost ring sights with that big bold front end and a large peep may be the way to go. Other times I just tell myself to spend the $ on ammo rather than stuff for it and spend time shooting it off hand out to 150 yards and closer.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #12 on:** November 29, 2009, 06:06:41 PM »

I scope almost all my rifles. A couple wear peep sights, or have iron back-ups. Too many good reasons not to use a scope. A good, low to medium power scope allows for better target identification (an important safety issue, as well as nice when hunting in states with antler size restrictions, like PA), more accurate placement of your bullet, especially thru heavy brush, can add important minutes to your shooting time before it gets too dark, and are of great benifit to those without perfect eye sight. Over the years, I have taken more then a couple big bucks in thick woods, or poor light, in places like Maine swamps at dusk, or in the thick woods of upstate NY that I would have passed on, or missed outright without a scope. I can only think of one I missed because of a scope, and that was my fault for not keeping the front lens element covered in a driving rain storm. Jumped a nice buck, and it looked like a kalydascope when I tried to aim because of the water. Smart hunters use lens cloths that are available that reduce or eliminate fogging, and cause water to bead up.

A scope may alter the balance of some rifles, or look out of place, but that is a small price to pay, in my opinion. Iron sights, and especially peeps can be quite accurate, under the right circumstances, and god bless the guys who only shoot irons, and hit their deer between the eyes at 300 yards, every year, without fail. But for most users, an optical sight just offers too many benifits to ignore.

Larry

WyoStillhunter · « **Reply #13 on:** November 29, 2009, 06:16:21 PM »

I love the handling characteristics of lever action Marlins with iron sights. What works against all that handiness is the fact that I can cut my group size in half, at any reasonable range, by using a scope of 2.5X, 3X or 4X. Six to eight inch groups at 100 yards offhand with iron sights drop to 2.5 - 4 inches with a low-powered scope. Since bullet placement is Job #1 when shooting at big game, I can't justify hunting with iron sights...as much as I would like to.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #14 on:** November 29, 2009, 06:32:20 PM »

i like open sights they just look right on a lever
too bad they suck

a scope lookes out of place on a lever gun
thats why i kept one without a cope too look at
i shoot the others and one has a peep i want to learn to shoot

red gots are the fastest ...... and best by far in poor light
don't you hate when that battery dies

i was shooting open sights today in a handi 45-70i think it will soon be scoped too

deernhog · « **Reply #15 on:** November 30, 2009, 01:37:41 AM »

Quote from: 45-70.gov on November 29, 2009, 06:32:20 PM

i like open sights they just look right on a lever
too bad they suck

a scope lookes out of place on a lever gun
thats why i kept one without a cope too look at
i shoot the others and one has a peep i want to learn to shoot

red gots are the fastest ...... and best by far in poor light
don't you hate when that battery dies

i was shooting open sights today in a handi 45-70i think it will soon be scoped too

I always forgot to turn the things off and constantly was in the woods with a useless site so I quit using them. But when they worked they were the berries.

mannyrock · « **Reply #16 on:** November 30, 2009, 01:31:30 PM »

Straight gripped Marlins look awesome with a compact, low mounted scope.

The curve gripped ones "look" fairly clumbsy with a scope, but they actually handle very well.

Mannyrock

pcking78 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 02, 2009, 03:42:39 AM »

I agree rifles handle better without them, my win 94 doesn't have a scope for same reason. I am simply saying that I don't see the insistance on people declaring open sights are better for brush. I feel the opposite is true. If a deer is 60 yards away through the trees, and there are limbs sticking out in the line of sight at 50 yards, you aren't going to be able to pick your way through without a scope. I only use my win 94 when overlooking small clearings or food plots, or possibly in a thicket so dense you can't possibly see more than 20 yards. However, I don't see why anyone would not use a scope in open hardwoods.

pk

45-70.gov · « **Reply #18 on:** December 02, 2009, 03:59:20 AM »

open sight i view like bow hunting

just an added chalenge

i need all the help i can get

i use a scope

Sensai · « **Reply #19 on:** December 02, 2009, 04:55:26 AM »

Different equipment to meet different requirements. I don't think that I would enjoy groundhog (woodchuck) shooting or covering a 300 yard field for deer without a scope; but I don't think that I'd be comfortable in the swamp looking for that big ol' hawg with one. Wouldn't it be boring if we all liked the same thing?

STUMPJMPR · « **Reply #20 on:** December 04, 2009, 04:26:45 PM »

I like open sights for some purposes. I can hold a 2" group with my winchester 30-30 out to a hundred yards. They are simple. They don't loose their zero like scopes. I have gained a lot of confidence in open sites over the last few years. However, all of my primary hunting rifles have scopes. It's safer, there is no mistaking a target and you don't have to carry binoculars. My marlin sports a nikon prostaff 3x9x40. Its a great scope for this rifle due to its low profile.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #21 on:** December 05, 2009, 06:45:09 AM »

Quote from: pcking78 on December 02, 2009, 03:42:39 AM

I agree rifles handle better without them, my win 94 doesn't have a scope for same reason. I am simply saying that I don't see the insistance on people declaring open sights are better for brush. I feel the opposite is true. If a deer is 60 yards away through the trees, and there are limbs sticking out in the line of sight at 50 yards, you aren't going to be able to pick your way through without a scope. I only use my win 94 when overlooking small clearings or food plots, or possibly in a thicket so dense you can't possibly see more than 20 yards. However, I don't see why anyone would not use a scope in open hardwoods.

pk

I totally agree. People seem to have the notion that scopes are only for long range shooting but the clear, sharp image and precise aiming point is a great benefit at any range. Often in the timber one sees only part of an animal and the scope shows which part you're looking at and helps discern buck from doe as well as showing the branches and twigs in the line of fire. Of course you don't want to go into the brush with a 12X scope, but 2-3X is fine, even in quite thick brush.
I once tested a Marlin M-39 with open sights, peep rear, red dot and a 4X scope, same rifle, same shooter , same ammo, same day. With the scope it would hold five shots under 1/2" at 25 yards. With the peep and the red dot I couldn't do better than 3/4" and with the open sights 1 1/4". Most shots with the open sights were nearly as good as the peep but there was always a stray or two which opened the group.
Admittedly, the factory sights on that Marlin .22 are about the worst sort, a shinny round bead up front and a half round notch at the rear, neither of which were very distinct, but they are typical of the open sights on most American hunting rifles. I can do pretty well on paper targets out to fifty yards with the target grade open sights on my CZ-452 but it still wears a scope every day.
My first experience with a scope was over 50 years ago when I put a cheap little 3/4" 4X on my Mossberg .22 and discovered that even with that cheap little scope which made everything look green, I could hit things I couldn't even see without it.
Today, my only open sight rifle is my "Rendezvous" target rifle where only open sights are allowed. My muzzleloading hunting rifles wear rear peeps because scopes are not allowed. Otherwise, I feel that a rifle without a scope is only half a rifle. I have a new 30/30 coming next week and I already have a scope waiting for it.

bilmac · « **Reply #22 on:** December 05, 2009, 08:08:59 AM »

To me it's a light thing. On a cloudy day under trees, I just can't see anything through a receiver sight. A low power scope makes everything clear. Don't go with much power though. Close branches and twigs disappear, the more X's the worse the effect. I learned the hard way once when I shot a branch instead of an elk.

Give me a nice bright day and peepers work way better than a lot of people give them credit for. I used to hunt with a peep sighted bolt gun. It was a joy to carry the slim little rifle when you could wrap your hand around the balance point. I made some shots way beyond what people think of for an iron sighted gun. I used a medium sized appeture and a pretty skinny front sight

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #23 on:** December 06, 2009, 09:09:11 AM »

I have mostly low power scopes on my levers, Weavers in K- 1.5 or 2.5, Varibles in 1.5- 4.5 or 5. And the same on most of my single shots. I keep them set on the lowest power if they are varibles, if I need more power I'm far enough away to take the time to change the setting. Don't own anything larger than a 3-9 and keep them on 3 when hunting as well, same thing if I need more power, I have time to change the power. Never saw any sense in getting a scope that went higher than 9 power for hunting. SP

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #24 on:** December 06, 2009, 09:14:49 AM »

I would also urge everyone to NOT use their scopes like binoculars! The most bone-chilling moment I had was glassing a mountain side and saw someone checking me out thru their scope.

Drop and roll isn't just for being on fire, works if some one is drawing a bead on ya too! DP

357magrifleman · « **Reply #25 on:** December 22, 2009, 05:11:40 AM »

I have to admit that I can shoot a whole lot better with a scope, but I do miss shooting open sights. I just receently started using scopes. Seems age is effecting eye sight. It took me awhile to stop jumping from the scope when i pulled the trigger. 40 years of open sights then I started using a scope.

357magrifleman · « **Reply #26 on:** December 22, 2009, 05:15:25 AM »

Oh yea, open sites are what you need for home defense, especial at night.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #27 on:** December 30, 2009, 04:12:11 PM »

Quote from: 357magrifleman on December 22, 2009, 05:15:25 AM

Oh yea, open sites are what you need for home defense, especial at night.

red dot!!!! especially at night!!! [as long as you have a good battery]