Survival Hunting/Trapping

[Arier Blut]

Wandering what your plans are to keep the family fed if times get bad? Any tips, tricks or techniques you can pass on to the rest of us. I will put one down. Most small game like sweet things. So a box trap, dead fall, snare or steel trap baited with sweets should give you better odds than a carbohydrate type bait. So what are some methods of turning the tide in our favor to make it? We all know a little bit so if we can sharpen our knowledge a little better, everyone can benefit. And more importantly we very well may sustain our loved ones when needed.

[spooked]

"Wandering what your plans are to keep the family fed if times get bad?"

Don't count on game very long, best to have some food stored ahead and a place to garden...One person with a heavy hoe and a light one and a shovel can grow a lot of food with the will to do the manual labor...
 "Me"? i'll just do more of what I'm doing now, only I might trade some meat..eggs n milk for some labor...

[Lurker]

"Wandering what your plans are to keep the family fed if times get bad?"

Don't count on game very long, best to have some food stored ahead and a place to garden...One person with a heavy hoe and a light one and a shovel can grow a lot of food with the will to do the manual labor...
 "Me"? i'll just do more of what I'm doing now, only I might trade some meat..eggs n milk for some labor...

Don't forget a good rake, along with the hoes and shovel.

Bill

[Graybeard]

I'm thinking that if you are in a survival situation where you need to be trapping small game to have something to eat you're gonna be in kinda short supply of sweets to use as bait for them.

Ya might wanna plan on storing some food to eat and supplement it with things you grow. Game might be trapped or snared or even shot with an air rifle while it lasts but if things get really bad then like during the depression game numbers will drop drastically really fast. Song birds might be about all that's left after a few months.

[Arier Blut]

 I have never had to survive on just veggies and such. I have heard that energy depletes rapidly if one does not intake sufficient protein. If one gardens, sweets should stay plentiful. Watermelon and cantaloupe get by pretty well without watering them. Honey is a great bait if you know how to harvest it safely. Also fruit trees do pretty good on their own as well. Remember in trapping you just need the smell. A piece of cotton with juice on it will hold scent for a long time before the rain washes it out. Juice can be stored quite a while to offer sweets way out of season.

I remember granpa talking about blackbird pie. I shot a mess for him at his request in his older years. He baked em up and said they must have been starving back then to find it a blessing to be able to eat them. I like that songbird idea.

 There are a lot of animals most folks wouldn't worry with because they are too small, such as a chipmunk. Locally we have a little flying squirrel that is nocturnal. I'm sure everywhere has animals such as that which could sustain the folks that know about them. Even frogs, crayfish and snakes could give protein.  So I guess the reason I ask is because I already have the fruit and vegetables scattered here and there. Not really worried about sustenance, just protein. I already dry fish and meat as well. Just looking for different methods of harvesting it I guess. I know a lot of us here grew up poor. Just interested in the ways you guys have heard of, or used to put food on the table.

[Dixie Dude]

Beans and peas have protien, as well as peanuts.  These you can grow in a garden.  Peanuts may not grow well up north.  Hickory nuts are good, but you will need a hammer to crack them.  Small game like the previous poster said, including chipmonks, squirrels, rabbits, snakes, frogs, lizzards all do have protein.  You also need fat, which some animals lack enough of, especially rabbits.  You can trap most small game, even a rat trap will catch a chipmonk.  Snares also can entangle a squirrel if placed on a tree with a squirrel nest.  Birds can be snared and trapped.  You can catch fish in nearby streams, ponds, or rivers.  

A backyard garden used year round can grow a tremendous amount of veggies.  Build a small green house using bent pvc pipe stuck in a few concrete blocks and covered with clear plastic.  You can grow summer veggies in there in pots and boxes, and start some plants early to transplant after frost.  With plenty of seeds and non-hybrid plants for future seeds, snaring, trapping, using a pellet gun or cb's in a .22 rifle, one can survive quite some time.  Long term will require a homestead in the country somewhere with good relationships with neighboring farmers and homesteaders for survival.  If you buy an eatable plant guide book or cards, you will be surprised as how many eatable wild plants are in the woods.  Even grass seeds, and roots are eatable.  

Just in the woods near my home inside the city limits are chipmonks, squirrels, rabbits, muskedines, hickory nuts, dandilions, kudzu, wild violets, wild onions, snakes, fish in a creek (my son has caught bream out of there), lizzards, toads and frogs, lots of insects (katydids, grasshoppers, and crickets are eatable).  Most people would not eat some of this, but if you are hungry and it is all that is available, I could survive.  You can even make a drink like coffee from roasted dandilion root ground up and brewed.  A little wire to make snares for the small game.  My grandfather made a quail trap out of sticks made into a box and tied at the corners.  Put some chicken feed inside with a little tunnel going into it.  Quail got in, but tried to fly out.  They couldn't figure out how to go back through the tunnel under the box.  It is illegal to trap them, but it can be done in a survival situation.  He did something similar for rabbit traps, but put the trap on flat rocks so the rabbit couldn't get out once the box fell.  Used seeds and such to catch rabbits.  They tripped the triggers, and down went the box.  Rabbit couldn't dig out because of the rock around the edge, and he put a big rock on top of the trap so it couldn't move the box. 

[jlwilliams]

  It's hard to beat a few hens for protein production.  As long as you can get/ raise or scavange enough to feed them you will have eggs.  The good thing is that they eat what you can't and turn it into what you can.  Three layers will produce enough for a family with a few to barter.  Multiple birds also spreads the risk of one dying.  

  They forrage a certain amount just pecking around.  That's a double edged sword.  The more they roam free the more they feed themselves, the less protected they are from predation.  The better you protect them with fencing, the more you have to provide feed.

  Now instead of trying to compete with everbody else for the local rabbit hunting, you can go scavange overgrown grass lots for the grass gone to seed.  You can't readily digest that, but your hens will.

  If you look you will find that people all over raise birds for meat and eggs.  I was amazed when I responded to an add for birds for sale at just where that lead me.  I ended up going into an inner city slum section of Providence RI to a man's appartment where he raised them on the roof.  Chickens, squab and some rodents (I think gerbills, maybe for pet shops, I didn't ask)  Seems the local Central Americans (again, I didn't ask where he hailed from) do it just as they always have back in the old country.

  Think small animal husbandry for sustinance; trapping, fishing, and hunting for some bonus food when you can get it.

  

[spooked]

"Wandering what your plans are to keep the family fed if times get bad?"

Don't count on game very long, best to have some food stored ahead and a place to garden...One person with a heavy hoe and a light one and a shovel can grow a lot of food with the will to do the manual labor...
 "Me"? i'll just do more of what I'm doing now, only I might trade some meat..eggs n milk for some labor...

Don't forget a good rake, along with the hoes and shovel.Bill

during the civil war great grandma plowed (broke the ground) the garden with  a cow and a single yoke (NO not an ox A cow)after the "jayhawkers" came through and took her last horse. She didn't rely only on her ole heavy headed new ground hoe as the garden was a seriously sized one almost an acre..

[ShadowMover]

I'm not a veggie nut, but it is possible to exist without animal protein. The Roman Legions ate vegetables almost exclusively, and worked as manual labor when not fighting. They didn't seem to have any energy problems.  I agree small game will disappear soon after any food shortage, along with dogs, cats, pigeons, and anything edible without a fence around it.

[Arier Blut]

I'm not a veggie nut, but it is possible to exist without animal protein. The Roman Legions ate vegetables almost exclusively, and worked as manual labor when not fighting. They didn't seem to have any energy problems.  I agree small game will disappear soon after any food shortage, along with dogs, cats, pigeons, and anything edible without a fence around it.

Probably will disappear even with a fence around it. Times are different these days. I imagine folks would be out killing each other for much less than livestock in a field. Seems like they take every opportunity they can to riot so they can steal, rape and beat folks. In lawlessness I imagine things will be much worse today with the morality a lot of people possess.

[vacek]

I am always a little tickled when the SHTF scenario ends up with the concept of eating wild game.  Did all the cattle, pigs, chickens, etc. just disappear.  Personally, if things get that bad I will shoot a nice steer to get some good meeat and raise a few extras.  IF the SHTF I think I will first hunt domesticated.  Not very romantic but from a delta in calories gains - used up, not a bad choice.

[Arier Blut]

Livestock is always a viable option. Very few folks have enough land for cows and such these days. Most folks would rather try to get by on their own before they result to thievery. That being said there is a bollering goat that is annoying as hell 3 or 4 houses down. Sounds like a woman crying all the time. I always tell the wife if times get rough that SOB will be the first to go. Just the same it is only talk. I would rather not steal from anybody unless my life depended on it. Still wouldn't make it right though. I am content to try and get by through preparedness and know how if that will work. If it will not I guess reexamination of morals will be in order.

[jlwilliams]

  Some further thoughts.

  Rabbits are fairly easy to raise.  You can feed them grass you grow or go cut from any overgrown lot.  Guinny pigs are eaten in many cultures, and I get the impression they aren't too hard to raise.

  If you start by making a hobby of raising small animals for sale before times are tough, you are ready when they do get tough.  You can sell certain, more exotic (read- useless) animals for better money than you can get for meat grade animals.  For example, you can get $30 or $40 each for golden pheasants and about $12 for ringnecks.  Likewise, angora rabits are expensive, rex's are not.  Raise what you can make a small proffit on.  Then, if you need to you can just switch to a meat grade critter and aply the knowlege you have learned. Go from a couple of breeding pairs of fancies to a larger number of meat bearers.

  And, yes, I raise useless birds now.

[Dixie Dude]

I've eaten several different kinds of birds.  They all seem to taste similar.  My uncle told me in the depression they ate robins.  Said they were like doves.

[squirrellluck]

Not that I would know being they are protected ... but robin is mighty tasty

[vacek]

Y'all misunderstood me.  If things really get bad then there is going to be a lot more domesticated animals running around than wild game.  The idea of living off of wild game indefinitely, just doesn't hold water.  If you are unfortunate enough to get caught in a city then it will be rough and you might end up eating some rat ... Ragnar Benson has a decent book on urban survival, but in the end the small rural communities large enough to protect themselves from the hordes will probably suffice.

Now in the case of a local or even personal catastrophe then the aforementioned  options are valid.  There have been several times in my life where wild game and gardening was the primary source of food.  During the first few years of my marriage most of the meat we ate was deer, antelope, elk, rabbit, pheasant, quail, etc.   Can't say that I am overly fond of wild meat these days.  The veggies came from the garden fresh and were frozen and canned.  Can't say I miss that either. 

[45-70.gov]

armadillo  is very  good

i  have thousands  of  minnows
in a tidal  creek in my yard

can they be  eaten  like sardines??

[Arier Blut]

Minnows can be laid out and dried in the sun. Place them in a cool dry place(under the house in an airtight container) and they will keep for a long time. They are eaten guts and all since it would be near impossible to clean them. A powder could be made out of them as well if the bones are noticeable. I have never ate them just going by the survival books.

I net shad to put in the garden. You have a mess if tilled under and left to rot. If dried then tilled under they break down slow and don't smell. I also store and use them for chicken food. I run them through a little hand mill so the game birds don't choke on them. They keep for a year as long as kept cool and dry. Never tried a second year since I resupply in Spring.

[vacek]

Everyone keeps forgetting the obvious.  If things get that bad remember in the USA in round numbers there are:

98-100 Million cattle
62-65 Million pigs
6-7 Million sheep
450 Million chickens
270 Million turkeys

Hunt early, hunt domestic.

[ShadowMover]

The other obvious thing is the food that feeds them isn't where they are, and we aren't where the food is. In a SHTF scenario, the fuel and transport networks required to get it all together won't be working. You'll have turkeys and chickens dead by the millions in their buildings, with no air, food or water. The stink will be so bad you won't want to be within a few miles of the place. There wouldn't be time to get them out of the buildings if the power and lights went out. 

The bigger livestock might fare a little better, but getting them spread out to feed and water might be tough.

Land will only feed so many people when managed with hand labor only. Obviously it can be done, but the tools are not in place, and most people, me included , don't know how.

If a rogue gangs or para-military forces were manning roadblocks or transport hubs, nobody would be going anywhere. Anybody with a road map can see where to choke transport and tax or rob people trying to move food. Starvation is a potent weapon.

[vacek]

I most situatios, the livestock would most likely be turned loose.  Chickens, probably a problem for the caged ones.  Turkeys as a rule are fenced in.

Go ahead and place your bet on minnows, starlings, rats, etc.  More romantic but in the final analyis, hunted domestic will be the most calorie efficient.

[Hooker]

Hunting someones domestic livestock would be very risky. You would be much better off bartering for the animal.
As for folks turning their livestock loose don't bet on it. The most valuable thing will be food followed closely by the means to keep it safe.
Livestock will be guarded in the daytime and put up at night. Folks with livestock and food stuff will be well armed, stealing from them would a bad mistake.

A barter system or merchant law system would have be accepted or we would all soon starve. Persons, gangs and para military that operated outside of the system would have to be dealt with using the most extreme prejudice.   

Pat

[Bigeasy]

When I think of all the game I cought trapping as a kid, and all the fish I cought setting trott lines, finding food would not be a problem, especially living near a lake.  The hard part might be keeping your traps and lines secret from other, hungry folks...   I often used the catfish leftovers from the set lines to bait my traps.

Larry

[seventh_shooter]

For these people that are going to steal livestock. If its a survival situation and somebody is stealing my chickens, that is whats keeping me alive. So by stealing my food supply you are attempting to take my life. That might just give me the right to take yours. You should think before stealing food from a starving man with a family to feed.....

[Dixie Dude]

Lots of cattle farmers/ranchers around here, from a few acres to several hundred.  Chickens are mostly raised in chicken houses now.  Some small homesteaders may have a few here and there.  If you can barter for a cow, and can smoke it, make sausage and jerky, that would be better.  If you have refrigeration, a cow can feed a family for a year.  Not many hog farmers around here either.

Most old timers would get a pig in the spring and raise it till the next winter.  Slaughtered them in winter.  With cows, most old timers I know of would get a cow and calf in the spring, use the cow as a milk cow and later the next year slaughter the now grown calf.  If a male and they didn't want a bull would raise it as a steer.  Usually a small homestead or farm only had one milk cow, and maybe one pig at a time.  They would also have chickens.  That kept them in meat year round.  They would barter butter and eggs or extra milk for cash or things they needed.  Small self sufficient farms were abundant 100 years ago.  Used well water, fire wood for cooking and heating.  Used a draft animal for plowing.  Raised their own vegetables, hay, and a cash crop.  In 1900 about 90% of the American people lived on farms.  By 1940 only 40% lived on farms.  With the mass production of automobiles and tractors, small family farms went by the wayside.  Also massive electrification of rural areas made them dependent on the grid.  I think being able to go back in a massive SHTF situation is something to strive for. 

[vacek]

Hooker,

I agree with you and apologize for  the idea of stealing.  That wasn't my point.  If things really got bad on a national/gloabal level where society breaks down, populaton is lower, etc. etc., then there would be a lot of domestic livestock running around.  I grew up and still live out west.  Most cattle (the cow calf herds) are unconfined.  It's the steers and culled heifers that end up in confinement (if they were no longer fed, the would figure out how to get out, cattle are escape artists when it comes to food).
 
Here in the Front Range of Colorado, actually the whole state and much of the West, there are thousands of cattle roaming free range on the national grasslands and the federal lands as part of a lease with the rancher to the government.  My point was that if it all came down to it, then there would be a lot of untended protein.

I have an acreage and each year we raise 3 heifers on it for sale.  We have also in the past rasised hogs, turkeys, goats, etc.  I also grew up farm and ranching in the Texas and Oklahoma Panhandle were I still have land in both states.  Livestock can and should be raised when possible.  So should gardening and some forage.

A classic example of domestic going wild is in Kuai, Hawaii.  A hurricane went through 15-20 years ago and the resident chicken population either was freed by the owner so they would survive and/or got loose in the chaos.  Anyway, you can't look in any direction, other than the ocean, and not see poultry gone wild.  They are everywhere.  No natural predators.

Look how the "wild" hog population has increased in our lifetime.


So my point was if things really went to hell in a handbasket, I was going to go for a fat bovine instead of a low fat deer.

[vacek]

Now for the personal situation where you just don't have money and need protein. 

I agree that hunting. gardening, and  foraging is a valid proposition.  For the first few years (87-96) of my marriage my wife and 3 children pretty much lived on deer, antelope, rabbit, quail, pheasant and garden raised (canned, dried and frozen) food.  My daughter born in 1990 nursed for over 2 years because (1) baby food was expensive and (2) she was healthier for it.  During that time we budgeted on $200 / month for store bought food, clothes, detergent ... you know consumables.

It can be done with a lot of pre-planning in place like making sure you had a place to hunt (permission) a license and enough information/scouting ahead of time to insure that you had a high probability of success.

Gardening for food and not recreation is not fun, at least to this boy.

[Yankee1]

This is not legal but if you must to live. Take some chicken wire mesh and stake it down about 8" from the bottom of a shallow water pond and throw some corn under it. Ducks will dive down to get the corn their neck feathers will open up when they try to surface and you will find a bunch of feet sticking up that you can just grab and pull up.
This will keep working when there are ducks around.

[jlwilliams]

That's good to know.

[Hooker]

Sweet corn on a fish hook tethered to stake with heavy mono line will catch all kinds of birds. Turkey, Pheasant ,Geese some Ducks.


Pat