Author Topic: American Troops who Avoid Deployment (Read 3517 times)

Gun Runner · « **Reply #30 on:** November 17, 2009, 03:04:56 PM »

When I was in the patrol gun boat sq., when we got ready to deploy to nam, all of a sunden we had 2 guys that became C.O's. They coundent get them off the boat fast enough. With a crew of 25 off/enl. combined almost all of the crew had at least 2 tours in nam. They knew these 2 guys woundent make it from SDiego to Hono. They were probably right.

Gun Runner

billy_56081 · « **Reply #31 on:** November 17, 2009, 03:12:54 PM »

When did they stop tryin deserters in the field and stop shooting them. We need the old days back.

teamnelson · « **Reply #32 on:** November 17, 2009, 03:23:17 PM »

There's been like a handful of C. O.s recognized as such since 2001 DOD wide. I'd get blitzed about a month after we get our fresh batch from infantry school of guys looking for a way out. Of the several claiming objector status, none met criteria. We took them ALL with us downrange, and several were out on patrol by the end of the deployment once they got over the fear.

Dee · « **Reply #33 on:** November 17, 2009, 03:23:39 PM »

Quote from: Mohawk on November 17, 2009, 01:00:29 PM

The point is, is that if every draftee in 1941 had done this same thing, due to a child, then we would not have won. I have a child that I love and support and have the chance of getting killed daily, going in harm's way dealing with felons. This seems to be just a case of riding the "gravy train", and second guessing when called to duty. Again, don't be a public servant if you can't give EVERYTHING that is asked of you by the citizens.........

Mohawk, there draft dodgers in WWII also. Back then the country was largely agricultural, and they could get out of the draft that way. During Vietnam a lot of the farmers kids around here got agricultural exemptions and didn't go. All you needed to get one in the sixties was an old man with money, and everyone of'em I know must have got'en one, cause not one of them went.
Sixty days after I graduated from high school, I was standin in the Dallas Induction Center in my drawers. I couldn't hardly stand for more that 20 minutes at a time, because a horse had worked me over pretty good, and I had just got out of the hospital, but I took the physical. They told me they would call me back when I got well, but they never did.
I spent 20 years in L.E. and swore I was done, but I just got back from an interview after a 15 year lay off. Oh well. I need to work, and that's what I do best. We'll see.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #34 on:** November 17, 2009, 03:47:02 PM »

I'm going to go way out on a limb here.

There was a day, long ago when I would have joined our military. Back when I was 18, now 30 years ago, I came within inches of joining the Army. Today, setting aside my age, I would never join our military. I don't cast any dispersions on those that do. My beef is real simple, I just don't trust our government nor our politicians anymore. We have moved to far away from our constitution. How can someone like me believe in joining the military? Why would I put my life in the hands of illegal and corrupt thugs that run this country?

Setting aside the above, If I did join, I would refuse to deploy to Iraq or Afghanistan. Those are illegal wars with a president who is leaving them high & dry. My oath is the constitution, not some politician(s) and their unconstitutional endeavors.

Whats wrong with my thinking here?

teamnelson · « **Reply #35 on:** November 17, 2009, 04:07:35 PM »

You cannot take the oath which includes to obey all lawful orders of those appointed over you, and refuse to go to OIF and OEF. Its part of the oath ... that's part of the gig. I just reenlisted an outstanding sailor, and readministered the oath which is a requirement. Very clear.

There aren't many in uniform I've met that support our stated reasons for going to OIF and OEF, but our country (or a majority of those who participate in its processes and not simply post on forums) has determined it needs doing. And the people I love and care about are going, so by golly I'm going to be there right next to them. Don't know many that have joined since 2001 that are 100% in support of our reasons either, but still plenty of young men and women willing to do what YOU the citizenry (as I'm oft reminded, I lost my rights when I took my oath) voted for. Hey, its still your government; don't like it, do something about it.

torpedoman · « **Reply #36 on:** November 17, 2009, 04:11:25 PM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on November 17, 2009, 03:12:54 PM

When did they stop tryin deserters in the field and stop shooting them. We need the old days back.

Ike was the general that executed the last one he was pvt. Slovak.

torpedoman · « **Reply #37 on:** November 17, 2009, 04:19:57 PM »

Ali never accepted any government pay or volunteered for any duty. He stood for his beliefs and paid the price of doing so, You need to respect a man that follows his beliefs, you don't need to agree with then but he has earned your respect as a man. Had Ali reported he would have had a cushy assignment in Germany and would have probably been allowed to defend his crown while on active duty. He would have never seen combat and everyone knew that.Totally different from raising your hand and taking pay then not doing what you are paid to do. No military service should have any single parents on their payroll, period.

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #38 on:** November 17, 2009, 04:25:59 PM »

torpedoman:

excactly why i respect him. to do what he did at the time he did being on top of the boxing world was a hugh risk to all that he had worked for all his life. it took you no what to do what he did knowing that it could be advoided just by going and he would never have been deployed in a combat zone. yet with all that at risk he stood his groung and stuck to his beliefs. it did not end when the war was over and his legal troubles ended..he still kept his faith and his convictions. that is something to admire not many will risk it all for what they believe.

scootrd · « **Reply #39 on:** November 17, 2009, 04:33:32 PM »

Quote from: torpedoman on November 17, 2009, 04:19:57 PM

Ali never accepted any government pay or volunteered for any duty. He stood for his beliefs and paid the price of doing so, You need to respect a man that follows his beliefs, you don't need to agree with then but he has earned your respect as a man. Had Ali reported he would have had a cushy assignment in Germany and would have probably been allowed to defend his crown while on active duty. He would have never seen combat and everyone knew that.Totally different from raising your hand and taking pay then not doing what you are paid to do. No military service should have any single parents on their payroll, period.

Cassius Clay gets no respect from me ... He never earned my respect and I don't respect his beliefs.
He refused to be inducted - changed to Islam for convenience to avoid and dodge. Additionally When Ali was stripped of his title after refusing to fight in Vietnam, Joe Frazier - who inherited his heavyweight crown - remained loyal, supporting him financially. But when Ali was given his boxing license back he quickly turned on Frazier, and twisted their first fight into a race war calling Frazier an Uncle Tom - "the white man's nig!@#". yeah , There's a real religious person for you.
He didn't pay a high enough price as far as I'm concerned.There's my stand!!!!.

"Much as I abhor war, and view it as the greatest scourge of mankind, and anxiously as I wish to keep out of the broils of Europe, I would yet go with my brethren into these, rather than separate from them." --Thomas Jefferson

unrelated comment to above:
While I may not have agreed with the politics of the day, once you make a commitment and take the oath.. all the politics go out the window. During times of draft , when your country calls your number , you serve. Hell yeah your scared.. everybody's scared but on a day to day basis your there , and you protect yourself and others their beside you. Politics take a back seat, a faarrrr back seat from that point on .. and you just do your duty to your up most and try and ensure everyone makes it home for Christmas.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #40 on:** November 17, 2009, 04:38:50 PM »

Quote

Some folks are born made to wave the flag, Ooh, they're red, white and blue.
And when the band plays "Hail to the chief", they point the cannon right at you.
It ain't me, it ain't me. I ain't no senator's son.
It ain't me, it ain't me. I ain't no fortunate one.

You beat me to that !!!! That was the anthem back then!

I had the chance to go to Vietnam, I did not volunteer, and my draft number never came up, I went to college and made good grades so I did not have to go! I was no patriot then, I was a young man who did not even appreciate what men were dying for. One reason why now I have so much respect for Men like Richard Sir(AtlLaw)! I regret that I did not serve! My family does not!

Those that signed up to go to school or for college money were misinformed or just looking for a free ride I have no pity for them if they wont serve to earn it.

skarke · « **Reply #41 on:** November 17, 2009, 05:35:55 PM »

Quote from: The Hermit on November 17, 2009, 02:06:52 PM

Questor Questor Questor, A bra size? Dude, ya gotta get out more.

The Hermit

Now THAT'S funny

Juuussst kidding

scootrd · « **Reply #42 on:** November 17, 2009, 08:25:10 PM »

Quote from: torpedoman on November 17, 2009, 04:19:57 PM

Ali never accepted any government pay or volunteered for any duty. He stood for his beliefs and paid the price of doing so, You need to respect a man that follows his beliefs, you don't need to agree with then but he has earned your respect as a man.

These are the men worthy of respect. - They were conscientious objectors like Ali stated he was. But unlike Ali they stood for their uncompromising beliefs and love of country with honor and dignity, and lack of cowardice. These are the men worthy of our respect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Doss
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_W._Bennett_%28conscientious_objector%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_G._LaPointe,_Jr.

Here is an article on Desmond Doss. God Bless him and others like him that serve and have served.

http://news.mywebpal.com/partners/680/public/news706221.html

Go ahead and admire the skill and prowess of Ali the boxer I take nothing away from him in that regard. But as a man there is very little to to be admired and certainly nothing to be respected.

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #43 on:** November 17, 2009, 11:18:30 PM »

Desmond Doss is indeed a man of true courage and conviction. i watch a movie about his time in the war. it was incredible what he did and it should be required in every school in our country to watch it. not to pass a religious sell on to anyone but to show what a man of conviction and unequaled bravery did.

by the way he was the first person to be recognized by a president as a concietious( i know i mispelled that) objector.and the only one to recieve the Medal of Honor.

he wrote the president a letter and told him he could not kill be he wanted to serve. the president ordered it it writing to let him serve.

and serve he did... how that man did what he did and lived to tell the tale is a miracle if there ever was one. he deserves the respect of all americans and his story should be told over and over again but i think the fact that he was a Seventh Day Adventist kept it down as a story.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #44 on:** November 18, 2009, 04:35:02 AM »

I was a young soldier during the Carter administration. It was a miserable army at the time, with the memories of Vietnam fresh and a liberal cutting the budget.

Put yourself in there place, how would you like to serve with Obama as commander in Chief?

lakota · « **Reply #45 on:** November 18, 2009, 04:49:47 AM »

Quote from: victorcharlie on November 18, 2009, 04:35:02 AM

I was a young soldier during the Carter administration. It was a miserable army at the time, with the memories of Vietnam fresh and a liberal cutting the budget.

Put yourself in there place, how would you like to serve with Obama as commander in Chief?

I am of the same thinking as you.

I am not saying these people avoiding deployment are right. I have never served in the Armed Services, but I think that right now I would have serious reservations about deployment knowing that not only has the "Commander and Cheif" has never served, he is also not legally qualified to hold his office.

It has always been my personal belief that millitary service should be required in order to be elected president.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #46 on:** November 18, 2009, 05:33:54 AM »

Its a contract and your word, no one held a gun to their heads and made them join. they joined and gave their word, there are consequences for going back on your word! Dont sign up(dont get the free ride) and you wont be deployed is where I am coming from.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #47 on:** November 18, 2009, 09:35:29 AM »

Quote from: victorcharlie on November 18, 2009, 04:35:02 AM

Put yourself in there place, how would you like to serve with Obama as commander in Chief?

Not a chance!

Cabin4 · « **Reply #48 on:** November 18, 2009, 09:37:26 AM »

Is this or is this not the current military oath?

I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

teamnelson · « **Reply #49 on:** November 18, 2009, 10:47:56 AM »

scootrd · « **Reply #50 on:** November 18, 2009, 10:49:48 AM »

Hi Cabin ,
Yes that is the enlisted oath I took. Not understanding your point, please expand on your thoughts.

ironglow · « **Reply #51 on:** November 18, 2009, 12:09:10 PM »

Quote from: victorcharlie on November 18, 2009, 04:35:02 AM

I was a young soldier during the Carter administration. It was a miserable army at the time, with the memories of Vietnam fresh and a liberal cutting the budget.

Put yourself in there place, how would you like to serve with Obama as commander in Chief?

   VC;
  You might be surprised with the number of NCOs who are right at this moment, deciding whether they really want to serve in a "politically correct" fighting force and under this C in C.

  Redtail;
  I believe Sgt York was in the same position as Desmond Doss, for a time.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #52 on:** November 18, 2009, 03:35:18 PM »

Quote from: scootrd on November 18, 2009, 10:49:48 AM

Hi Cabin ,
Yes that is the enlisted oath I took. Not understanding your point, please expand on your thoughts.

Here are my thoughts:

I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; and
that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God

Based on this oath, if I beleive the federal government is excesicing massive violations against the constitution and therefore, they are the enemy. Further, why would I obey their orders in an illegal war or the orders of a president that is violating the constitution?

teamnelson · « **Reply #53 on:** November 18, 2009, 06:36:52 PM »

Determination of the lawfulness of an order is informed by the UCMJ, not political conviction. If order to rape or murder, it's unlawful. If part of America is opposed to our reasons for war, that is not grounds for disobedience. That's the difference between Just War and Justice in War. As a servicemember I must seek justice while in the conduct of war. Whether or not the war is just is determined by the citizenry - it's a checks and balance.

Sounds like most would be very suprised to learn what we the military think.

Dee · « **Reply #54 on:** November 19, 2009, 01:31:48 AM »

Not really. My son whom was in the 82nd led men into battle in Afghanistan once (12 months), and Iraq twice (24 months total). The first war, the Afghanistan he agrees with, the second war (Iraq) he considers a waste of time and American lives. But he went, because he said he would, when he signed up, and he did his best each time, coming home with the same men he left with, and no, he didn't sit in a tent. He was a Sgt. with a trigger finger.

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #55 on:** November 19, 2009, 03:32:26 AM »

ironglow:

Sgt. Alvin York a true American hero did in fact wrestle with the morality of war issues. yet he never once refused to serve. he went on to fight and his story is one of a great man a true hero of this nation.

No soldier has the right to refuse to carry out a lawful order. his thoughts about who he fights or who he is ordered to kill do not matter. in fact he is obligated to fight and kill if needed anyone anywhere anytime. he also must assume the risk of the fact he could very well lose his life carring out such orders. it is not his place to dispute or question his duty is to do what he is ordered to do.

Dweezil · « **Reply #56 on:** November 19, 2009, 06:30:15 AM »

Quote from: Cabin4 on November 17, 2009, 03:47:02 PM

I'm going to go way out on a limb here.

There was a day, long ago when I would have joined our military. Back when I was 18, now 30 years ago, I came within inches of joining the Army. Today, setting aside my age, I would never join our military. I don't cast any dispersions on those that do. My beef is real simple, I just don't trust our government nor our politicians anymore. We have moved to far away from our constitution. How can someone like me believe in joining the military? Why would I put my life in the hands of illegal and corrupt thugs that run this country?

Setting aside the above, If I did join, I would refuse to deploy to Iraq or Afghanistan. Those are illegal wars with a president who is leaving them high & dry. My oath is the constitution, not some politician(s) and their unconstitutional endeavors.

Whats wrong with my thinking here?

Absolutely NOTHING is wrong with your thinking. I DID join the Army. Did 8 years enlisted and 5 as an officer...and took the oath both times to "defend the CONSTITUTION of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic..." After an 18month deployment, and after fulfilling all my obligations, I resigned my commission because my "commander in chief", a wartime deserter himself, was systematically violating the Constitution I had sworn to defend, prosecuting illegal and immoral wars and forcing soldiers to fight and die, not for the Constitution, but for greed and political expedience.

Regarding the original post. Sounds like the Specialist/single mother has rendered due diligence by filing her Family Care Plan as required by command. This would have made her deployable. It's not her fault her mother flaked out and is reneging on her responsibility at the last minute. Bottom line, at this point, her commander cannot consider her a deployable asset without a functional Family Care plan and they will have to start the process to board her out. This is usually done as a hardship discharge. This happens all the time, and is usually quietly and efficiently handled by command without any need for media hysteria. It will NOT be a dishonorable discharge.

Dee · « **Reply #57 on:** November 19, 2009, 06:34:32 AM »

Dweezil, for the sake of curiosity, and time frame, pray tell, what commander in chief are you refering to?

Dweezil · « **Reply #58 on:** November 19, 2009, 07:15:03 AM »

Dee,
Dubya....and I was deployed from 1/03 until 6/04.

Dee · « **Reply #59 on:** November 19, 2009, 07:21:19 AM »

Gosh Dweezil, I have been saying that and folks here call me a Bush bash-er.

Course they call me a McCain bash-er too, so I guess it works out.
After 3 tours, 1 in Afghanistan, and 2 in Iraq, my youngest son a Sgt in the 82nd Airborne came to the same conclusion basically as you did, and when he finished his last deployment in Iraq, and did not reenlist. His family is most grateful he realized FIRST HAND, what was going on with our government, and got out in one piece.
Thank you for your service by the way.