Beretta pistol at 25 years US Military service

[Questor]

There's an article in this month's American Rifleman about the Beretta sidearm that's been in US Military service for 25 years. What are your conclusions about its suitability as a sidearm?

Me? I think they serve such a small purpose that it hardly matters what they use. Most of the people that have them don't know how to use them very well. I think the bigger innovation is the use of dot sights on rifles.

[magooch]

I don't know about the Beretta, but I have the Taurus version of it, which is very accurate, never fails to function and holds up to 18 rounds (one in the chamber).  If I had to have just a handgun in a shootout, I can't think of a pistol I'd rather have.  The 9mm might not be as deadly as a .45, but it can throw a lot of lead downrange without stopping to reload.

This ought to get the thing started, so have at it guys.

[Dee]

I think I'd choose the Glock 21 in 45acp caliber with 13 round mag plus one in the chamber. WAIT! I already have chosen that one. It's by the bed.

[victorcharlie]

I think its a shame the US military is using a firearm not made in america.

[Questor]

VictorCharlie:

Maybe they are technically made in the US, but I get the point. I find it disappointing too. But considering what was going on with the major US manufacturers during the 80's it's not a surprise that a foreign company won the contract.

S&W has turned around quite a bit, but Colt is practically out of business and I don't think Ruger makes guns that are particularly suitable for the purpose. They are geniuses in other ways.

When I think quality semi autos, I think of European products first, except for 1911s, in which case I think of Kimber and various semi-custom manufacturers. The S&W M&P seems to be highly regarded.

Personally, for this type of auto, I prefer the Glock style guns. That includes more recent refinements of the design like the S&W M&P. Good ergonomics. Reliable. Accurate. Low maintenance.

[Blackhawker]

I have a friend that is a Federal Officer and his issued sidearm is a Sig 357 sig.  Why the Feds use this round?  It's effective.  Why the manufacturer?  Because it's got a good reputation and a fine firearm.  What's odd is that the government chooses one firearm for one division and another for the other division.  In a way, that seems odd to me. 
I can see using the 9mm in combat though because most other forces use the same round.  It would be hard to find spare 357 sig rounds on a battlefield. 
I suppose that's part of the reason why we don't use the 45 anymore too.

[Redtail1949]

yes various law enforcement agencies went to the SIG some to the .40 they in effect tried them all and some took one and some another. the main reason was to have a PC firearm on the most part. that nasty old 1911 carried cocked and locked looked so threatning and was certain to encourage officers to kill indescriminately.

so that demanded thru the efforts of the ACLU and others that a weapon have super saftey features that would make certain that if the weapon was fired it would be a deliberate act. so the search started which in fact brought on new technologies..polymer and so on . this did great some great weapons and fast hard hitting calibers all in an attempt to match the performance of the old reliable model 1911. they in fact did in certain calibers they brought on improvements in high capacity mags and finishes. still most found the 1911 design to be the ideal i agree increase the mag capacity and you got a just about perfect hangun.

the military dropped the 1911 in favor of the berretta mainly for standerdizing with NATO forces and one of the main arguments has been brought up before...finding ammo in a battle most everyone was using the nine already and as was said .357 sig is hard to come across on a mountaintop in Afghanistan..

[Questor]

Shucks, I thought they picked the SIG because they are ultra cool!

[Blackhawker]

yes various law enforcement agencies went to the SIG some to the .40 they in effect tried them all and some took one and some another. the main reason was to have a PC firearm on the most part. that nasty old 1911 carried cocked and locked looked so threatning and was certain to encourage officers to kill indescriminately.

so that demanded thru the efforts of the ACLU and others that a weapon have super saftey features that would make certain that if the weapon was fired it would be a deliberate act. so the search started which in fact brought on new technologies..polymer and so on . this did great some great weapons and fast hard hitting calibers all in an attempt to match the performance of the old reliable model 1911. they in fact did in certain calibers they brought on improvements in high capacity mags and finishes. still most found the 1911 design to be the ideal i agree increase the mag capacity and you got a just about perfect hangun.

the military dropped the 1911 in favor of the berretta mainly for standerdizing with NATO forces and one of the main arguments has been brought up before...finding ammo in a battle most everyone was using the nine already and as was said .357 sig is hard to come across on a mountaintop in Afghanistan..

I couldn't agree more.....add a high capacity mag to the 1911 and you have one heck of a nice pistol.  I guess some of the special forces are using it again, despite the use of the M9 by regular troops.

As for having the feds use an ultra safe firearm to use, my friend just told me that they're soon to hand in their current sidearms for a new Sig model (I don't recall the model numbers) that is hammerless.  Talk about safe and boring....hammerless, double action only.....  BORING!!!  Makes one not even want to use it!  

[Redtail1949]

just a thought..if you would a man with a .45 probably one time maybe you would not need all that spare ammo like after you shoot a man say 4 or 5 times with a nine......

[Graybeard]

I think its a shame the US military is using a firearm not made in america.

They are made in America. That was a condition of them getting the contract they must build a plant in the US in which to make them. I think it's in the Carolina's if memory serves me correctly but can't recall if NC or SC.

For me the grip of it is far too large for my [glove size 10] hand. I can't hold and contol one fired with one hand only. I suspect that's the case for at least half of the folks who are expected to use them both in the military and those civilian police agencies using it. I would never depend on a self defense handgun I couldn't operate easily with one hand.

[Questor]

That's one of the desirable things about the new generation of plastic stocked autos. You can easily alter it to suit your hand size.

[Echo4Lima]

Common joke is "try not to use it, it'll only give your position away".  Marines are supposedly going back to the .45. Not sure "who's".

[Yankee1]

As for me I'll take the 1911 .45 caliber Colt. It has proven stopping power. You can put another magazine in while you still have one in the chamber.  Its accurate, reliable, and has substantial firepower.
I like my colt.
                                         Yankee1

[Sourdough]

My Marines friends have gone back to the 1911 Colt .45.  When my oldest went over the Navy issued him a 1911 Colt .45.

The reason the military went to the 9mm Baretta anyway was for the women that was being brought into the service that were unable to handle a .45. 

Personally I feel that was BS, because my tiny wife (4'11" and at the time 105 lbs) can handle a 1911 Colt .45.  She had to handle it and qualify with it to go into OSI duty.

[teamnelson]

unlike a good wine they've not gotten better with age. M4 accomplished the goal.

[Blackhawker]

Here is a Wikipedia link for the 45 that our Special Ops units are using.  It's not a 1911 style pistol...but nonetheless, it's a 45.  (Maybe most of you guys/girls know about this already anyway)

Link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_Mark_23_Mod_0

Do you think I could buy one of these at Cabela's or the local gun shop?