Author Topic: America: What Went Wrong?  (Read 1234 times)

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Offline Redtail1949

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America: What Went Wrong?
« on: November 18, 2009, 11:12:15 AM »
For any that wish to learn of just how it all began and why. i talking of the total disassembly of our nations industry and the resulting outsourceing of almost all our jobs to forein nations.

Read the bok America: What Went Wrong written by Donald L. Barlett and James B. Steele published in 1992.

This book given to me by a friend shortly after it was first published is the best information available of just how it all came about and what was to come. they nailed it right on the head. they foretold of the condition we find ourselves in right now. they tell of the political and powerfull forces that brought it about in a determined and deliberate way.

After thjis book was given to me i wanted to purchase several as gifts to friends. i went to the bookstore and they had none when jus a few weeks before the shelves were full. i asked the clerk what happened did they sell tyhem all. would he order me some? he replied that they had been instructed to remove them and return to their supplier.

i am not sure if you can find them today i have not looked but the bookstore clerk and i both agree that we think the powers that be brought about their removal from the store shelves.
I occasionaly get it out and re-read parts of it to refresh my mind. I recommend it to anyone that really is interested to see just how all this crap came about. interesting to note that both republicans and democrats passed the laws to bring this upon us.

Offline torpedoman

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2009, 02:56:20 PM »
people other than land owners were given the vote. Democracy is a limited life experiment as soon as the many find out they can legally take from the few the system is doomed to failure.
the nation that forgets it defenders will itself be forgotten

Offline Dee

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2009, 04:33:29 PM »
torpedoman, are you saying the folks that don't own land shouldn't be allowed to vote? That should mean that they wouldn't have to pay taxes either wouldn't it?
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline slim rem 7

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2009, 05:37:45 PM »
man left to his own course on this earth ,,will corrupt ,,sooner or later..
 man who has faith in the creator will eventually need a spanking also..
 its just the natural nature of man..i believe the creator knows this is inevitable..he created us this way..
 but he always lets us make our choice..jmo slim

Offline Yankee1

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2009, 06:52:05 PM »
Rothschild

Offline no guns here

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2009, 12:26:09 AM »
The same thing that happens to all successful and affluent cultures...  they implode.  Once people have the affluence to NOT work hard and to pay other folks (or enslave them) to do the hard jobs then everything goes nuts.  Once people believe that they DESERVE a high paying job and refuse to work blue-collar jobs then society starts to go nuts.  Once people can AFFORD instant gratification (credit cards and easy credit) then society starts to go nuts.  As long as people have the "drive" to work and to increase their standard of living, then society works pretty well.

Greece
Rome
Egypt
England
USA

All great societies that worked hard and drive themselves to world wide prominence.  Once they became too affluent they began the downhill slide.

The one that hasn't so far is China.  A great society throughout history.  The average joe there has been kept poor and hungry for the whole time.  Now... you see stories in the news about the newly affluent Chinese consumer racking up credit debt in exchange for instant gratification.

NGH
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Offline skarke

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2009, 01:59:27 AM »
I could write a dissertation on this topic, but I won't.

We lost the schools to the socialists/communists.  The process to do so was really quite clever.  They slowly deteriorated and polluted American History with partial truths, fabrications, etc, and then the commie professors quoted each other's lies, and soon, it became "truth".

We allowed the Government to steal the privilege of caring for the poor from the Church.  Basically, the govt offers free goodies with no moral obligation from the recipient.

I don't have time to go farther, and these are a couple of the 1000 points of darkness leading us into destruction, but destruction is our future if we remain on our current path, beginning with utter financial ruin of the dollar, then our personal property.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it on to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States when men were free.  Ronaldus Maximus

Offline powderman

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2009, 02:20:57 AM »
Easy enough question to answer. We left God. We allowed him to be banned from our courts, judicial system, and classrooms. The results are with us now. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline jhm

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2009, 03:24:14 AM »
DEE the non-property owners DONT pay PROPERTY TAXES and dont say that the Landloard pays their share as that a no does either, I used to own rental property and you cant raise the rent high enough on them to cover it all, So I am with Torpedo man If you dont OWN property you should not be allowed to vote on property taxed funsing for anything parks, schools etc.etc.  Teachers shouldnt be allowed to vote for a tax hike for their salarys, and yes that also applies to anyone who is being paid from the government trough city state county and federal.   Jim

Offline Dee

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2009, 04:54:37 AM »
DEE the non-property owners DONT pay PROPERTY TAXES and dont say that the Landloard pays their share as that a no does either, I used to own rental property and you cant raise the rent high enough on them to cover it all,

First of all jhm, I will say any thing I please. You took my question to torpedoman COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEXT TO "HIS STATEMENT" and expounded FURTHER THAN EITHER OF US. Now that that is cleared up, let us look at reality.
I am a property owner, MINES PAID FOR, IS YOURS? And I also own a house I am financing for a couple, and have had rent houses. If we do it YOUR WAY, why don't we JUST EXPAND THE REQUIREMENT, AND SAY YOU CAN'T VOTE UNTIL THE LAND AND PROPERTY IS "PAID OFF", BECAUSE UNTIL IT IS: YOU DON'T OWN IT, THE FINANCE COMPANY OR BANK DOES. They get to vote, and I GET TO VOTE,  BUT YOU DON'T (unless of course yours is paid for.)! That will really narrow things down.

I agree with property tax votes being made by "property owners", and bond passing. But LET'S NARROW THINGS DOWN SOME MORE. Why not just tax the people in regards to such things as schools, and teachers' salarys that actually have kids, in school. My mother, has not had a child in this school district since 1968, and I have NEVER had a kid in this school district, yet we both pay school AND COLLEGE taxes. The school taxes are higher than the county taxes. Let my neighbor pay for his own kids education and teacher retirement. Will that work for ya? ;)

How about also, we don't let the military that keep us safe vote either. Most of them don't own property. They can't afford it. Also public servants, such as police, firemen, in the beginning don't make enough to own property either. Never mind, that if it weren't for them, we might not have any property. The fact is, just because all the afore mentioned RISK THEIR LIVES DAILEY, to protect us, they should NOT be allowed to vote. They simply do not own property. That attitude will solve ALL OUR PROBLEMS. ::)
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline MGMorden

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2009, 05:07:26 AM »
I used to own rental property and you cant raise the rent high enough on them to cover it all

Not the whole bill, but likely enough of it is covered to match what residents are paying.  

In many jurisdictions you pay (significantly) less property taxes for property you're living on vs renting out or using commercially.  In SC for example your property is assessed at a 4% rate if you're living on it, while if you're renting or using commercially it's 6%.  Residentially used property also gets a huge credit towards school operations bonds - they in effect pay almost no school taxes through property taxes.  To top it off past a certain point (65 years old if you're initially applying, past 50 years old if you're taking over an exempted property from a deceased spouse) you get a homestead exemption that essentially forgives the first $50,000 worth of value in your home as non-taxable.

Other states have different laws, but many grant similar exceptions.  Some don't even charge property tax.  I'd not get too excited about trumpeting the land owner as holding up that tax burden as a lot of bones are being thrown their way.

In the end though the simple truth is that allowing only land owners to vote leads to a society with a permanent lower class that is trampled on.  Laws are made by the rich to keep the rich rich and the poor poor.  Only a corrupt society fears giving voice to the masses.  

As to the original topic?  Where did we go wrong?  It breaks down into two main categories.  For one, in the ever lasting quest to find the cheapest price on everything we outsourced labor and production of everything from pots and pans to vehicles to other nations.  Look at it from a broad view - when a boatload of goods from China comes into port, they dont' just shovel that stuff onto the docks for free.  It has to be paid for - with our money.  Now that money has to have some value.  If all we do is print more money and keep giving it to them then our money is worthless and the shipments stop.  Our money is really only worth what you can get HERE with it - and about all we do anymore is the pyramid schemed "service based economy".  You can get a massage, or go to the doctor, or pay a consultant to tell you how to run your business, but very few things are actually made over here, and that's what counts.  Other countries will not continue to keep sending us cool toys to play with while we keep pandering to each other with "services".

Second of all, and it's an important one, somewhere along the line America shunned intellectualism.  I'm not sure where and when it occurred, but somewhere along the line in America it become "uncool" to be smart or educated.  Kids who do well in school are picked on as "nerds".  Normal scientific research is looked as as being somehow untrusted or unnatural.  Outdated ideas lead to bans on research for things like stem cells and cloning.  It's hard to maintain the technical advantage in cutting edge fields when half of the country still follows the "That just ain't raht." philosophy when it comes to research.  We fall behind as other countries surge forward.  Partly because of some puritanical notion that we should avoid science, partly because of the urban trend of "keeping it real" (aka keeping it real dumb), we have become a nation of ignoramuses.  

Luckily it's a problem that will likely fix itself.  If our currency drops low enough other country's goods will stop coming in.  People will lose their jobs, and people will have to make due with less.  Those out of work people will eventually decide to make stuff, others will buy it because the foreign goods aren't coming in anymore, and so on.  We'll eventually reach equilibrium, but we're going to have to take a tumble first, and when we recover we won't be back to the same level of lifestyle.  The natural resources just aren't there. I saw it estimated not long ago that if the entire population of the world lived like the average American it'd take 5 planets to support us all.  Unfortunately we've got but the 1.  As others' quality of life goes up so must ours come down - I just hope we're not that bad off after it balances.

Offline alsaqr

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2009, 05:13:47 AM »
We went wrong when we tolerated evil in the US government.  We went wrong when we allowed the political scumbags in DC cut taxes for the wealthiest Americans while at the same time time sending our military folks into combat without body armor, properly armored vehicles and without proper logistics support.  We allowed our political scumbags in DC to send the US economy off to communist China in return for political contributions. 

Why not roll the clock way back and allow certain wealthy folks to own other folks.  For census purposes we could count the owned person as one-half of a non-owned person.  This would reduce the population of the US.  ;D

Offline MGMorden

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2009, 05:45:26 AM »
For census purposes we could count the owned person as one-half of a non-owned person.  This would reduce the population of the US.  ;D

You probably already know (I detected a bit of sarcasm in your llast bit there :D) but we actually did do this earlier in our history.  Determining representatives in the House for a state has always been based on population.  Once upon a time blacks were counted as 3/5ths of a person for representation purposes. 

More of the "good ole' days" that too many nostalgically lust for.  We've got our problems now for sure economically, but between what we have now and the past of counting people as partial people, slavery, trying people in courts for religious reasons such as witchcraft, and a whole host of other things that we've left rightly in our past, we've made a lot of improvements in our time too. 

Offline Redtail1949

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2009, 09:35:51 AM »
i believe maybe a bit too simply that it all started in the schools in the late 60's early 70's. The kids did not have to say the pledge of allegiance. then came removal of prayer and anything religious. then total rejection of anything patriotic such as the military recruiters on campus or and R.O.T.C. Program and so on.

the requirements were lowered for those in sports and cheerleading to make it possible for the underpriviledged to participate. the slowly but surely the slide began. we used to go around and sing christmas carols when i was in grade school. we had better show respect to the flag. it we did not we paid for it from our parents our teachers and our friends.. you must remember many of our fathers fought in WWII and many had died for that flag and what it represented to them.

then came the slide and now if a kid gets out of high school he is lucky to be able to read or write in way to many instances. they will spit at the flag laugh at anyone that respects and do not even mention religion.

they have quit teaching the history of the struggle that this nation has endured..we had to know about the Revolutionary War the War of 1812 and the horrible struggles of the Civil War that blew the nation apart. Its impact and aftermath guide most of the America we know today. We heard things of the "going over the top" in the trenches in the unblievable wholsale slaughter called WWI.  Then of course the world catastophe called WWII except in most cases we could here from members of our families as to why we fought and died. it influenced most and made such an impact on us. now that is just not cool do not want to even hear about such stuff. thats what really started this crap of ME ME ME ME NOW and will be the ruin of the nation. Obama represents to me all those things that are wrong because he truly believes we must not remember.


Offline jhm

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2009, 03:27:30 AM »
Well DEE to answer you question is MY property paid for yes it is and the 1269 ACRES that go with it are also PAID in full, I have NEVER gone out on a limb and then COMPLAIN ABT loosing almost everything,  BTW I have a vary active involvement in a PAWN SHOP where I see people on a daily basis pawning their newest VALUBLES to pay their cel-phone bill or to pay their light bill while talking on their cel-phone.  My point was in that responce that there are entirely too many people running around with their hand out wanting someone else to put money that they earned into it so they can go and live the happy go lively lifestyle, as far as someone who doesnt have children in school I honestly think that once you children are OUT of school your school taxed should be reduced.   Jim

Offline Dee

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2009, 04:45:59 AM »
Well DEE to answer you question is MY property paid for yes it is and the 1269 ACRES that go with it are also PAID in full, I have NEVER gone out on a limb and then COMPLAIN ABT loosing almost everything, 
. Jim

Neither have I, and have never lost almost every thing, but I have lost money in investments.
My response to you originally was that you ADDED TO, both mine and torpedomans posts. He made a statement, and I asked a question regarding his statement.
You brought a whole new topic into the mix like I had said it, or implied it. I had not.
Now on the issues of property taxes, and the raising and lowering of, I think we pretty much agree. On the school taxes, I am for more drastic measures than you.
On the right to vote in general terms as torpedoman implied, we are way apart. There are far more ways to contribute to this country, thereby earning the right to vote, than owning land.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline DEACONLLB

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2009, 05:23:36 AM »
Powderman answered the question, as the English would say, spot on.
When a nation rejects God then that nation is doomed. Read you Bible especialy Deuteronomy 28 and then apply this to where we are today. It does not happen overnight it can take years. In 1980 we became a borrower nation and we should know that you cannot borrow your way out of debt. I would say that all of us here know this, but the goverment has a legal counterfiting dept. need more money just print it up, but at some point you have to face the facts that you are broke. Our nation is broke, If China alone called in our debt we could not pay.Our money has no backing.We were on the gold standard, then silver up to about 1968, then we went to a federal reserve note which is only paper with no backing, just faith that we can use it and sellers will take it. Good piece in the latest American Rifleman on this subject.

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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2009, 03:39:27 PM »
This country started down the road to hell when we allowed the beatles to come here and live.
Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     Patrick Henry

Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     bugeye

Offline Dee

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2009, 04:06:58 PM »
Just something to think about, you don't have to agree. In 1963 Wescott and Hoyt started importing from England different "reader friendly" toned down versions of the Original King James Bible. All of these "new and improved versions" had over 60,000 changes and deletions of scripture, some of which were very significant. About the same time "free love" arrived with the Beatles, and other heathen bands. That's about the same time America started it's moral decline in earnest. Like I said, Just something to think about, and NO! I don't want to debate Bible versions OR the catholic church either.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2009, 04:35:59 PM »
I could write a dissertation on this topic, but I won't.

We lost the schools to the socialists/communists.  The process to do so was really quite clever.  They slowly deteriorated and polluted American History with partial truths, fabrications, etc, and then the commie professors quoted each other's lies, and soon, it became "truth".

We allowed the Government to steal the privilege of caring for the poor from the Church.  Basically, the govt offers free goodies with no moral obligation from the recipient.

I don't have time to go farther, and these are a couple of the 1000 points of darkness leading us into destruction, but destruction is our future if we remain on our current path, beginning with utter financial ruin of the dollar, then our personal property.


Skarke, you nailed it! they teach the children the children are the future , and they arent being taught the things that I was taught nor my Father!

I hear that the new Texas Social studies books wont have Geo Washington in them nor  Paul Reviere! They will have Oprah winfrey and a few other notable infamous people in there.

They are revising history to reflect what they believe and want remembered. And yes they dont believe in God nor the Church they do believe that the masses need the government to take care of their needs!
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline briarpatch

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2009, 04:40:49 PM »
Nothing just happened. We laid on our lazy A&&s and let it happen. Most here watched each little step and said nothing just like now. No different.
When they shove the spit up our A&& and rotate us on the fire we have no one to blame but ourselves.
Tomorrow will be a vote on the most destructive piece of legislation on earth. How many here has bothered to send one small letter or called their whore and let them know where you stand? See what I mean?   Go hunting.

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2009, 05:08:15 PM »
You know i keep hearing/ seeing this stuff  on this site about not doing anything and sitting on our asses.

I probably spend too much time here but i dont spend all my time here! I support local candidates that have my views or at least say they do! i also right letters and send Emails to my representatives. I contribute money where i think it will do the most good.

I also think that there are a lot of others that do these things also!

But you can do the right things and support the right people and still not get any where!

Once in power these people become less and less receptive to what "WE" say. They dont have term limits and they dont listen to the people(they listen to their "friends"), just like now 70 percent of the people dont want government run medical but it looks like its gonna pass. 

Yes We are to be blamed but "we" are not in control anymore cause when you get all the special interest wants considered there aint no more room for whats best for the country! We are being sold out by the people we sent to Washington in the first place! How else could you explain whats happening with this medical care business anyway! they know it does not work anywhere its been tried and that it  is gonna break this country economically but they lie and say its for our own good ! Oh yea and they will put you in jail if you dont participate!  bullets and blood is what its gonna take Pardner!
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline BBF

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2009, 05:58:33 AM »
smugness, if that is a word.
A lot of it when vigilance was needed.
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline victorcharlie

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2009, 08:56:30 AM »
IMO, if you're a government employee, or taking any form of government assistance not including social security, then you should not be allowed to vote.

A fellow on the dole will most likely vote to increase it.

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline jimster

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2009, 09:40:11 AM »
"IMO, if you're a government employee, or taking any form of government assistance not including social security, then you should not be allowed to vote."

Now I wonder what most of the people that work for GM will vote for.  For the candidate that will shut off the tax money going to their company and let it crash...or for the one that will keep the tax money flowing in to prop it up.   

In light of the situation victorcharlie...I guess I'd say I have to agree with you...time to change the rules on who gets to vote.  Since nothing they are doing is constitutional anyways, I really do not have a problem with this at all.




Offline Dee

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2009, 10:27:52 AM »
Government Employee? Well let's see here. U.S. Marshals, FBI agents, ATF agents, Secret Service agents, so far that doesn't sound too bad. Hmmmmm
Gosh! SOLDIERS are government employees. You mean they shouldn't get to vote either? Do you want to live in FREE AMERICA, or maybe the SOCIALIST REPUBLIC OF AMERICA?
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline jimster

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2009, 11:24:40 AM »
Course we can't take it that far Dee...all those government agencies you mention can vote for sure...I was just thinking a bout GM... ;D

Mostly just funnin...We all know you can't keep, or should not keep anyone from voting.  Buying votes is just one of those things that happen, and have been happining for a long time now.  Truth is there is not enough real conservatives to win a vote anyways, but what the heck, it's fun thinking about which groups you don't want to vote.

Jim

Offline Dee

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2009, 02:05:55 AM »
Well joking or not jimster, now that you clear it up, the GM bailout was nothing more than welfare. I would agree on that group  not voting. They have waaaaaay to big a lobby in DC.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Squib

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2009, 10:03:26 PM »
voting is the cornerstone of democracy and attacking that right is attacking the principles of liberty
I side with Dee, if we discriminate in voting priviledges, the victim isn't just stripped of a priviledge but total citizenship
PATRIOT ACT- when one group empowers the government with a new ability- it will be turned on the initiator

for everyone we lose to the welfare state, we need to recruit new people with character.... where to find them though?  the government gives tax breaks to entities that push a supported agenda, and funding, but those that are not approved of can not only be taxed but harassed.  public school was also brought up- the kids are brain-washed.  at 25yrs old I see a lot of strange things happening that did not happen when I was a kid: cross-dressing, EMO, goth, want to be vampires, affirmative action for gangbanger/thug kids, ..

in some places spanking is child abuse, parents have almost lost the fight to the state

Offline Dee

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Re: America: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2009, 01:54:14 AM »
Parents in my opinion have not really "lost" their rights as parents in such cases as spanking, or any other parenting, "not right", but "DUTY". They have abandoned these rights.
Just give the kid a twenty and send him to the arcarde, I'm watching a ball game.
VOTE!? Hell the strippers are bitein, I ain't got time to vote.
Vote for Ron Paul? I don't know anything about him, and haven't got time to research it. I'll just vote for that guy on all the commercials. Paul should get himself some more support if he wants me to support him. ::)
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett