What would you do ...

[teamnelson]

If you knew that it would help the country get back to strong economic, political footing, how many out there would willingly continue in their present job at 75% the prevailing wage (25% pay cut), and the expectation that work will most often exceed 40 hours, with no overtime or holiday pay, capped annual raise at 2%, and right to work terms only - no union. Or even possibly leave their current position to work in mining, farming or public service (military, law enforcement, etc.) at the same reduced rate.

[Dee]

I spent half my life in public service (Law Enforcement). If you cut their wages 25%, they will not be able to stay in the business. The first 3 years of my career everyone but the chief qualified for food stamps.
For it to help the country, you would have to bring the government agents (Senate and House) down to the same level, as at this time they are living more like aristocracy rather than public servants. 
Now what did you have in mind with the idea?

[teamnelson]

Dee, I've been in a similar situation but military since '87, which is what I based those numbers off of, and we qualified for state aid up through SSgt, and even some of our junior officers do still today. I'm sure y'all were the same way, one of yours comes up short, y'all pitch in and help.

Deacon board once told a Preacher that times were tough, they were going to cut his salary to make ends meet and suggested he "Trust God!" Preacher replied, how 'bout we all give ourselves a pay cut, put the difference in the offering and then we can all "Trust God!"

The time is coming when we will all need to put our money where our mouth has been, and I'm just curious if we're ready.

[Swampman]

If you knew that it would help the country get back to strong economic, political footing, how many out there would willingly continue in their present job at 75% the prevailing wage (25% pay cut), and the expectation that work will most often exceed 40 hours, with no overtime or holiday pay, capped annual raise at 2%, and right to work terms only - no union. Or even possibly leave their current position to work in mining, farming or public service (military, law enforcement, etc.) at the same reduced rate.

I don't mind the rest but I don't want to work over 40 hours.  Right now I'm working 36 and that's enough.  We haven't had a raise in 2 years.

[Dee]

I guess I'm about as ready as I can actually get. I have been telling my family since about 1990 that what is happening was going to happen. I just missed it by about 5 years. I thought it would have already happened. I have been putting stuff back, for harder times for years. I also didn't see this unemployment coming for myself, but I have a plan for that too, so I just have to be patient, and as God says be still. He usually moves when he's ready.

[jimster]

Well, most of us already took the cuts, I'm making 18K less per year, company stopped contributing to 401K, and stopped matching it, there is no union here, and nobody is allowed to get over 40 hours, used to 10 to 15 hrs overtime was normal.  Wages are capped, and have been, of course a couple years.  Got you covered on that for quite some time.  

Your second part...leaving to do another line of work, is a choice, as all free men will make a living the way they want, and do what they like to do, including public service and military.  That's a good idea and military is looking good to many young people now, they got plenty signing up.  I think that's already working too...you should see how many are trying to be police officers in this State.  That's working pretty good.  They get paid like crap...your covered on that too already.

Anyways...since most of us met the criteria already for the past couple years, how's that working out economically so far? Not too good I guess.  Let's try not to spread this around too much, it's not working so well for me anyway.

Give the police and the military great big raises, give all that are still working most their tax money back so WE can spend it (get off my companies back too while they are at it), force government to slim down and "lay off"...cut their wages by 75%...they can get a second job or sell something.

No...I don't want to sacrifce any more and nobody will ever convince me sacrifing more will save us all.  I been listen to that speech for almost three years straight now, hope it ends in 2012.  He has a nice voice though.

Jim

[jimster]

Sorry if that sounded cranky...appologize for that.

You make good points...I just been wondering when those in power are going to start to give a little bit.

Jim

[Redtail1949]

the pay for most that means most of all law enforcement is pitiful to say the least. the small towns and counties barely pay enough to live. the military the same.

look at the kids today no real future..walmart and others scam the system to pay just the minimum and tightly regulate hours so as to pay no benefits. i have 9 children  afew are working two jobs and can barely afford gas after the rent is paid..buy a house out of the question..children for those that are married i have stressed wait for gods sake do not bring them into this world no right now you could be putting them into a lot of pain and misery.

the plain jane working folks have given for 20 years they have been giving back to the companies foregoing raises agreeing to pay cuts..all the while the CEO and other get millions in bonuses and perks..then there is alawys the golden parachute waiting when its time to bail out.

that is why there are unions however the unions now are nothing more than mini corporations with there own versions of golden parachutes expensive perks and so on. they learned from the corporate adversaries just how to do it. rattle those sabers boys we are going to war for you...and by the way we will have to raise dues 10-20 bucks to have a war chest. they have used those ploys for the last 20 years never returning the dues structure back finding a reason to leave it on. now the guys i used to represent are paying almost 150 dollars a month to the union that they hope and pray will do something for them.
the paasage of laws that made union membership mandatory ruined them and sealed the fate of the worker. open shop staes with the right to work was the only thing that made a union perform.

now they got their dream they do not care what their members think they will pay dues or be dismissed.
i do know what i am talking about.

[billy_56081]

If everyone took a 25% paycut, who would fuel the governmant? A 25% drop in wages would equal more that a 25% cut in personal income taxes paid.

[gypsyman]

I've actually gone to work and lost money. Same amount of hours, lost money. Run that one by me again. gypsyman

[351 power]

no one needs to take a pay cut. people just need to stop buying anything that isn't made in the usa. or for me, made in canada or the usa. all local food too. then everything our neighbours make or grow is sold. and every country will look after their own

[Redtail1949]

just think in the early 1900 era we were all living on farms mostly raiseing own own food barter was a way of life. trading my hogs for some of your corn. almost no one had loans for this or that. at most the farm was under a payment plan. we hunted or fished to subsidies the table. we butchered own own meat and smoked it or stuffed it in salt to cure.

now days very few could plant anything could slaughter and butcher nothing. all my children can shoot clean an butcher and all have been taught how to plant and harvest. maybe not the best at it nor I but they and those like them have the best chance to survive a collapse of the system. they will have to only fear those that can not. of course thats where the guns they know how to use come in.

[powderman]

I work for walmart. They put a cap on all job classifications several years ago, stopped all merit raises 5 years ago. Refigured how raises are given, haven't heard of anybody getting more than 40 cents a year for several years now, one guy got a nickel. They are trying to drive out us full timers and cutting hours, while hiring newbies part time at the starting rate. I go to work every day and am thankful to have a job to go to. I've been getting 40 hours a week for only 6 weeks now, before that it was 24- 32 a week. They cut my hours so much that I fell below the minimum of 34 hours to remain full time, that of course was the plan to begin with. If I fall below the next quarter I will be busted to part time, again, thats the goal. Yes, I've been giving for quite some time now. I really do thank God every day for my job, there are millions who have less. POWDERMAN. 

[a4beltfed2000]

Heck, our union already took a 20% pay cut and Im still layed off, for the past 9 months. Anyone around here need a bridge/construction worker

[Yankee1]

Hi All
    If the value of our money is based on our gross national product how does cutting back on wages help us in our current situation?
The paper money has no real value other than being government issued script.
                             Yankee1

[Yankee1]

Me Again
    I would think that creating more jobs would increase the gross national product therefore increase the value of our money.
                                      Yankee1

[teamnelson]

Which business sector has the growth potential to create those jobs? It's my understanding that most areas have grown faster than inflation. I'm with you but creating artificial jobs might bite us later.

[rio grande]

If you knew that it would help the country get back to strong economic, political footing, how many out there would willingly continue in their present job at 75% the prevailing wage (25% pay cut), and the expectation that work will most often exceed 40 hours, with no overtime or holiday pay, capped annual raise at 2%, and right to work terms only - no union. Or even possibly leave their current position to work in mining, farming or public service (military, law enforcement, etc.) at the same reduced rate.

"If you knew...."   
How would we know?  How would we know it wasn't lies??  I don't trust this government.  Sure don't trust the news media. 

[Yankee1]

Look at what we were doing when everything was well economically and then use it as a model.  As Matt says make reciprocal arrangements with other Countries to protect our economy. That does not mean dollar for dollar. It means if you do something worth 50 barrels of oil then we will reciprocate.  We would have to restart manufacturing here and if environmentalists want cleaner air it will have to be done with inventions not by killing jobs that families depend on.
Back in the 1950's I was in Germany and they were selling Buick Specials for 10,000.00. When I asked why ? They were only 2,500.00
here in the states. The reply was to protect our jobs and industry.
There is much we can do to improve our situation.
Matt has the right idea.
                              Yankee1
                                       

[no guns here]

Not a chance... that would effectively be socialism or communism.  Nothing like the government deciding how much you can make...

Besides, the easiest way for the government to get things back in shape is to quit spending the money that we already have taken as taxes.

The IRS spends 50% of every dollar it collects just to run it's own bloated bureaucracy.

Just quit spending our money to provide crack-whores with support.
Just quit spending our money to keep hundreds of killers on "death row" for 20 years.
Just quit supporting other nations.
Just quit supporting and bailing out ill-ran, ponderous corporations.


Ohhh... there are hundreds of ways to save billions of dollars... but none of them will ever happen.  Under the guise of "saving" the economy, the poor, the downtrodden and so forth, our legislators will continue spending our nation into abject bankrupty.  As long as there is a financial incentive for our congress-people to be there, they will continue to try to "buy" votes through expenditures.  If there were NO incentives they would have no reason to continue to act irresponsibly with OUR money.

Congress has been around for over 200 years.  Just how many more laws should they be allowed to make?  How many more are needed?

Congress should recieve housing, a living stipend and compensation for lost wages from their primary profession during the time they meet.  They should meet for about 4 months out of every year.  Congress should NOT be a profession.  It should be a SERVICE.   No Congress-person should be allowed to serve for more than 6 sessions.  Get them in, do the job and get them out.  All votes should be in  person and all daily sessions should be mandatory.  No travel perks, no pension, no health care, no nothing.  Just do the damned job for four months and go home and back to your real job!


NGH

[teamnelson]

Well I guess I got the answers I expected ...

Fact is the RIGHT thing for this country will require sacrifice on everyones part. But we won't do it because we fear.

[slim rem 7]

 this gonna sound dang rediculouse.. what if i did what i wanted an let you do what you want..
 what if i help you,, if i see you in need,,an you do the same for me.... what if we quit being an me society an became our brothers brother..
 if i want a lot.. i can work for it an god willing will probably end up with a good bit of worldly goods.
 long as what i want doesn t take from my neighbor..
 if hes not about worldly goods ,,he just need to learn to catch the fish that goes in his belly an mabe share with one who can t fish ,,until he can teach him..
 what if we threw off the greed thats mankinds real problem..
 sounds a bit like marxism huh..only thing wrong with communism was and is its throwing away the
 value system taught at different times by the creator ..
 i kinda believe he had something to do with the original idea of one nation under god ,,indivisable ,with liberty an justice for all..now when he inspired those words ,,he knew eventually man kinds nature would corrupt this .. natural man is endowed with all the things that go into being a human being..
  when i get to the other side ,,my dream is not of golden streets, nor things of any kind..
 my dream is mankind will simply be able to live to his potential as children of the one who created us..
 my dream is not of setting around thinking good thoughts ..but of each person making the world a little better for all the rest of us..my dream is people understanding what a smile can do for one who needs it. also a hand up to one who needs it..
 this not gonna happen truthfully until righteousness itself is running things..now self righteousness is gonna come along as the great imposter ,, i think .. its gonna fool a lot of us..
 but in the end  he is exposed ..
 i ll just use the seven deadly sins as a way of sayin it..
    you have what my simple mind envisions as heaven..
 mankind finally reaches his original potential an becomes too wise in righteousness to be fooled by these sins any longer..
 many say this a pipe dream ,an so it is for the natural man..but thats whats gonna happen when i throw off this trophy i walk around in.. in this life..
 but for now we just do the best we can ,,to try an live without these deadly stumbleing blocks. that an keep a strong faith in the one who created this whole thing an knows exactly how its gonna turn out..
 his eye is on the sparrow.

[Mikey]

TeamNelson:  why don't we re-orient your question to ask who would be willing to assure that those who have screwed up this country should sacrifice 25% of their salary.  

I'm retired but sometimes think I will have to go back to work until my farming project starts to pay off, but that could be years.  

I am personally willing to clear out death row, as a paid executioner or as a courtesy to the taxpayers if this state ever returns to the death penalty.

I worked for this state for 33 years, and my salary was always behind inflation; year after year after year would go by without a contract or raise to even bring us near cost of living. One year the state was embarrassed into giving us a cola after 5 yrs of no raises, when a local paper ran a article on how many state employees had come to unemployment to ask about getting a second job or some assistance to make ends meet.  

Somehow, after all those years of being stepped on and worrying about being able to make payments and purchase food and fuel I still don't feel that burning all of those political scum at the same stake would be too good for them.

[no guns here]

I guess what I'm saying is... Would I be willing to sacrifice to pay the national debt and get us back on stable financial footing?

No, not under our present governance.

Yes, if we could DRAMATICALLY downsize our governmental spending AND lay a foundation that would eliminate such largess in the future.


I wouldn't give you a loan to pay your debts UNLESS you cancelled all credit cards, paid off all loans and got rid of your $50k car.  To subsidize bad spending habits would be foolish.  Of course, I'm using the word "you" generically...


NGH

[Redtail1949]

i will give you a little example of just how serious the corporations are when faced with a cooperative union. i was in a very high level union company meeting concerning union concessions. we heard for two days how ..it has to be done to keep the company strong if not job cuts are sure to come. so on and on after charts graphs cost anylais. we broughgt up the three CEO we had had in the last 3 years that all left with millions in golden parachutes..the regional supt. that had revieved a bonus of 500,000 no less. the director of labor relations that had recieved a combined bonus and raise of 2 million dollars.  oooh never mind the pay structure of the non-union it was none of our business.

so my immeadiate person above me told me late late one nite after a day of particulaly deppressing negotiations "..just wait till tommorror I am going to prove to you that it has nothing to do with our outdated work rules that they claimed we must change. when i start talking you shut up and listen hold your tounge untill we get back here. i agreed and slept very little in thee few remaining hours before the next round started.

when the meeting opened he started by throwing our contract book on the table speaking loud and clear..."..its yours all of it not one work rule will remain we simply come to work do whatever is asked and in return we want a single rate of pay of (the amount was something like 5% over the median rate of pay for all our workers for the last year.) XXXX . the director of labor relations turned white and I dang near passed out. the labor relations director immeadiately adjorned the meeting and requested a meeting with my boss. he brought me along with him for this side disscussion as i demended fearfull as heck of what was  going on. when we met the guy started screaming curseing us and slamming everything he could find. here is the meat of the story... "What in the h$#%% are you doing he demanded.. we can not accept that...why ^%%4%8%%6 this would eliminate my job."
in a nutshell that was the truth one single pay and the only argument you can have is did the employee work or not. if he did pay him if he did not don't. there was an entire 10 story building full of labor realtion in one city in the south and there was a entire 5 storie dedicated to them in another city. literaly millions of dollars per year would be saved by the company. all we wanted was the pay rates a decent raise every few years  and cost of living increases.

They turned us down ..we did not make any concessions for two more years. our union leadership had change during that time and our international leaders forced us to make concessions. they had cut a deal themselves...corruption to the core.

[Dee]

this gonna sound dang rediculouse.. what if i did what i wanted an let you do what you want..
 what if i help you,, if i see you in need,,an you do the same for me.... what if we quit being an me society an became our brothers brother..
 if i want a lot.. i can work for it an god willing will probably end up with a good bit of worldly goods.
 long as what i want doesn t take from my neighbor..
 if hes not about worldly goods ,,he just need to learn to catch the fish that goes in his belly an mabe share with one who can t fish ,,until he can teach him..
 what if we threw off the greed thats mankinds real problem..
 sounds a bit like marxism huh..only thing wrong with communism was and is its throwing away the
 value system taught at different times by the creator ..
 i kinda believe he had something to do with the original idea of one nation under god ,,indivisable ,with liberty an justice for all..now when he inspired those words ,,he knew eventually man kinds nature would corrupt this .. natural man is endowed with all the things that go into being a human being..
  when i get to the other side ,,my dream is not of golden streets, nor things of any kind..
 my dream is mankind will simply be able to live to his potential as children of the one who created us..
 my dream is not of setting around thinking good thoughts ..but of each person making the world a little better for all the rest of us..my dream is people understanding what a smile can do for one who needs it. also a hand up to one who needs it..
 this not gonna happen truthfully until righteousness itself is running things..now self righteousness is gonna come along as the great imposter ,, i think .. its gonna fool a lot of us..
 but in the end  he is exposed ..
 i ll just use the seven deadly sins as a way of sayin it..
    you have what my simple mind envisions as heaven..
 mankind finally reaches his original potential an becomes too wise in righteousness to be fooled by these sins any longer..
 many say this a pipe dream ,an so it is for the natural man..but thats whats gonna happen when i throw off this trophy i walk around in.. in this life..
 but for now we just do the best we can ,,to try an live without these deadly stumbleing blocks. that an keep a strong faith in the one who created this whole thing an knows exactly how its gonna turn out..
 his eye is on the sparrow.

slim, we all here, have stumbled around the solution, and the what ifs, and came up with the same ole. You my friend have for the most part hit the nail on the head, and have repeated what God said to do. I'm with you. I like your idea of how to live in this ole world, and God's idea better. Thanks for the insite, and don't forget to keep your car keys next to you pistol.

[Redhawk1]

You all don't know it but when you are paying all these taxes, you are working for less than 65% of your pay already. It is going to get worse.

[powderman]

SLIM. VERY well said, and true.
REDTAIL. From experience I can truthfully say that we get more work done and customers taken care of when mgt is gone. They hired 9 new mgrs just in my store this summer, they are simply more of a drain on profits and have done NOTHING to help sales, effeciency, or customer service. Most  mgt I know of are there because they are too lazy to work. POWDERMAN. 

[Brett]

My job dried up so I had to find a new one.  Took a $4.00/hr cut in pay, no payed vacation time or sick days, no health insurance, and I'm lucky if I get a full 40 hour week.   

Not sure how all of us having less money to spend is going to help the economy.   

So TeamNelson, what sacrifices have you made to help bail out the economy? 

[no guns here]

I understand what TeamNelson is asking.  Would you be willing to SACRIFICE off the top of your pay now to pay down the debt so that future generations aren't saddled with it?

Years ago I said that I would be willing to pay more taxes to accomplish the same goal.  Since then I have come to the conclusion, either rightly or wrongly, that NO MATTER what our tax rate we will NEVER pay the national debt.  Self serving "elected" professional politician's will continue their race to spend money that doesn't exist as a way to prove their worth to their constituents.

No policitian will go to their constituents and say "I voted no on spending money in your district.  This won't give you jobs, benefits or improvements.  This will keep our nation from going further in debt."  They are too afraid of not getting elected to their lucrative "job".


NGH