Author Topic: Are Glocks Inherently unsafe? (Read 11249 times)

Oldshooter · « **on:** November 18, 2009, 02:54:34 PM »

This has probably been dicussed before but I ran into an article and thought it might make some interesting discussion.

http://www.defensiveshootinginstructors.com/articles/is-glock-unsafe.pdf

Quote

As we will see, the factors that contribute directly to the Glock’s success are also the root causes of Glock
detractors’ criticisms. Let us succinctly and with less sarcasm list the alleged dangers of the Glock as posited by
critics:
1. Glocks have too light a trigger.
2. Glocks do not have a manual safety.
3. Glocks do not have a magazine disconnect
4. Glocks suffer more “kabooms” than other handguns
5. Glock’s customer service, when good is great, but when bad, is abysmal.

I found these amusing as well as interesting

Savage · « **Reply #1 on:** November 19, 2009, 01:59:59 AM »

I don't think any modern firearm in good working order and properly maintained is inherently unsafe. I do believe the opposite is true for the operators. Perhaps therein lies the problem.
Savage

Oldshooter · « **Reply #2 on:** November 19, 2009, 03:27:55 AM »

I agree Savage. Its usually the nut behind the wheel, or in this case the trigger!

Dont get me wrong, i did not think Glocks were unsafe when i posted this, but I did think it made interesting reading.

Savage · « **Reply #3 on:** November 19, 2009, 09:06:46 AM »

Didn't think you were concerned about Glock safety. This topic usually gets a lot of play, and usually pretty equally divided. It's frequently pretty entertaining as well-----

Savage

jmayton · « **Reply #4 on:** November 19, 2009, 09:17:28 AM »

Seems to me, an unsafe weapon would be one that would be unpredictable or do something that it was not designed to do. I have a friend that has a Springfield P9 that will fire when you disengage the safety after you have pulled the trigger and released with the safety on. That to me is unsafe. Glock's fire when the trigger is pulled and I've handled some revolvers that have DA pulls nearly as light as a glock, though certainly not as short. My $.02: Learn your weapon, use it and store it properly.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #5 on:** November 19, 2009, 09:19:57 AM »

The Glock laying on a table is not un safe . So only when in human hands is it a problem . Is it un safe no . Is it idoit proof no . The problem is some like to place blame on the machine not the operator .
Manual safety , yes it has one on the trigger . The trigger is to light by who's standard ?
Mag disconnect would fall under idoit proof not safety IMHO . More kabooms ? Is that because it is often the first auto police and others are issued and shear numbers make it so ? Or are the numbers pulled out of thin air ? BTW this is not a cut to LE but new recurits are like any new person in a job they have to learn to use the tools of ther trade and mistakes happen .
Customer service , used it one time and they replaced a factory rebuilt gun that had problems with a new one .

JeffG · « **Reply #6 on:** November 19, 2009, 05:11:00 PM »

I was once talking to a Polish gentleman about a Radom pistol he owned. In our lack of skill with each other's languages, I pointed out that his pistol had no safety. He replied, "Is not safe....is GUN!!"

Tonk · « **Reply #7 on:** November 19, 2009, 06:34:21 PM »

OldShooter do you own a Glock? Now to start the ball rolling once more, I will tell you, that the only real SAFETY on any gun lies between your ears!!!

Yes, one does NOT have to worry or make a mistake in the heat or strees of getting mugged or carjacked and forget to sweep off the safety on a GLOCK. Only because the Glock does not have such monkey on it's backside ok.

If you train properly and learn to keep that index finger straight along the slide and away from the trigger when you draw or holster the weapon, one will not have the Glock pistol go bang accidently or before you intend to pull that trigger.

Glocks are very reliable and most problems I have heard or seen, came from people trying to reload improperly for the pistol or use lead bullets. Glock tells all, NOT to use lead bullets in their owners manual.
It seems as though there are indeed a lot of people purchasing those so called "unsafe Glocks" all over the world. I rest my case!

Oldshooter · « **Reply #8 on:** November 20, 2009, 12:14:42 AM »

Yep, Two of em. my wife may not always be with me but my 36 is! Now i know that will hurt my 21's feelings cause I have been carrying it for 20 years. This wont hurt the wifes feelings cause.........well she wont see it!

the thread was not started cause i thought they were unsafe, but i thought i covered that already.

actually it was a troll trap!

Savage · « **Reply #9 on:** November 20, 2009, 02:27:20 AM »

If you train properly and learn to keep that index finger straight along the slide and away from the trigger when you draw or holster the weapon, one will not have the Glock pistol go bang accidently or before you intend to pull that trigger.

Hum, seems to me if you can train yourself to index the trigger finger, you might even be capable of learning to sweep the safety on the draw---------. At least I haven't had a problem myself, or know of anyone who has.
As I alluded to in my first post, any firearm is as safe as the operator. Now to go clean my game Glock with the scary 3# pull and no external safety!

Savage

jmayton · « **Reply #10 on:** November 20, 2009, 04:13:10 AM »

Keeping the index finger out of the trigger guard until you are ready to fire is a good habit to be in regardless of the weapon used. I've shot IDPA in three divisions now. SSP with my Glock, CDP with my 1911, and SSP with my S&W 66. All three handle differently and operate differently but my finger stays out of the trigger guard no matter what. I've finally gotten to where I will sweep the safety on my 1911 without having to think about it as I aquire my target and not do the same with my Glock. It's like driving a standard and an automatic. If you only drive one, then you'll inevitably try to operate the other like the one you drive the most. But if you drive both often, then you know the difference and don't get confused.

Savage · « **Reply #11 on:** November 20, 2009, 04:36:24 AM »

jmayton,
Like you I shoot in several classes. Mostly SSP/ESP/CDP, even shot SSR a couple of times. I shoot Glocks/1911s/HiPowers/CZ mostly. Haven't had any problem going back and forth between platforms. My grip is virtually the same on all these pistols. My high grip and "Thumbs Forward" grip automatically sweeps the safety on the presentation, and my shooting thumb rides the safety. This works well on all my CDP/ESP pistols, as you said, I don't find the transition between these and the Glocks to be challenging. I feel one platform is as safe as the other, Glocks included.
Savage

jmayton · « **Reply #12 on:** November 20, 2009, 04:45:27 AM »

Savage, I agree. I did forget to reload while shooting SSR and it cost me a second or two, but it was still fun. That's the only operational goof I've had.

I will say this, I have been carrying my 1911 hog hunting for a while as my backup. The other day, I carried my G22 which was my primary for quite some time before I decided I needed to better aquaint myself with my 1911. It was so nice to have that Glock on my hip again. Lighter, a bit smaller, with less protrusions, and just as capable. It was a good reminder to me why I like my Glocks so much. . . and I didn't feel unsafe compared to carrying a 1911 cocked and locked.

Savage · « **Reply #13 on:** November 20, 2009, 05:06:18 AM »

jmayton,
I remember the first Glock I saw. I thought it was a joke! I just knew I'd never own one of those weird things. My all steel, SA pistols were all I'd ever need. Then---My first Glock was a 21 carried as a duty weapon. After a while, it made a lot of sense. A 13+1 .45 acp rather than the 8+1 Kimber. Actually learned to like the Glocks, I bought a 19/36/17/22 to go with the 21. Traded off the 21 when I retired. Traded the 19 (Still regret that) for a silhouette rifle. Currently own the 36/22/17s. I use the 17 & 22 in IDPA, and the 22 in Production Class USPSA. Although I still own a sack full of other pistols, these are my most used. Sometimes carry the 36, when I can get it away from my wife. I guess you could say I'm not concerned about the safety of the Glocks.
Savage

jmayton · « **Reply #14 on:** November 20, 2009, 05:41:24 AM »

My father introduced me to the 17 when I was 12 years old. The he switched the department he worked for from whatever the officer wanted to carry to G17s. After a lot of testing various pistols, the Glock was the overwhelming choice. They had only one incident with the Glocks once everyone was trained on them and that was an officer who limp-wristed hers in a shootout and got shot in the hip while clearing the jam. She was able to clear it and then return fire. I like all kinds of pistols and like shooting all of them, but if I had to have one pistol, it would be my G22. I think my dad would still choose the 17.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #15 on:** November 20, 2009, 05:55:03 AM »

first time I saw a glock, in my infinite wisdom, I said it looked like a toy gun and would not catch on!

I used wheel guns then, S&W, at that! Now the two i own are glocks, but I miss my model 29!

jmayton · « **Reply #16 on:** November 20, 2009, 06:08:13 AM »

Quote from: Oldshooter on November 20, 2009, 05:55:03 AM

first time I saw a glock, in my infinite wisdom, I said it looked like a toy gun and would not catch on!

Isn't that what they said about the M16?

Savage · « **Reply #17 on:** November 20, 2009, 06:36:20 AM »

If I could own but one pistol (God Forbid), I would want a Glock, probaby a mdl 22 with a 9mm & .22lr conversion. I say this due to rhe proven reliability, simplicity of design, and parts availability. Thank God I don't have to make that choice-----------yet!
Savage

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #18 on:** November 20, 2009, 08:17:22 AM »

[

Quote

1. Glocks have too light a trigger.
2. Glocks do not have a manual safety.
3. Glocks do not have a magazine disconnect
4. Glocks suffer more “kabooms” than other handguns
5. Glock’s customer service, when good is great, but when bad, is abysmal.

I found these amusing as well as interesting

[/quote]

Let's look at these in Order.
1) Trigger is too light.
And this is a problem HOW?
A clean crisp trigger is what is needed to maintain accuracy. Heavy trigger pulls move the front end of the gun.
2) glocks do not have a Manual safety.
Neither so guns like Sig Sauer P22? series.
they are good enough for the Military (M10 &M11 Issue) the FBI, Secret Service, Texas Rangers.....I can fill up the page with agencies and law enforcement that uses the Sig.
But the trigger safety is a manual safety. It needs to be depressed before the trigger is pulled. It happens in the same action but there is one.
3)Glock Does not have a Mag Disconecct.
Almost no one except the Browning Hi Power and the S&W auto line had a Mag Disconnect.
Personally I would not like a mag disconnect. If the mag has popped out of battery during carry or on the draw. I would want that ONE round and have a malfunction, that pull my firearm when needed and have nothing happen.
4)More Ka Booms
Don't know the source of this but more new to handgun people get Glocks for a number of reasons.
and the new shooters may be the reason for more oops rounds.
5)Customer Service....
Customer Service is Customer Service and yes if they are good they are great and if something goes wrong it seems bigger than it is.
Not all problems can be fixed. And the frame has a serial number and to replace it you will have problems.

This guy sounds like he has an adversion to the Glock.
My guess is he is a 1911 guy and will now tout the advantages of the light 1911 trigger, The multiple safeties to make the thing go bang, the lack of a Mag disconnect, and the Customer service at ......
While I am not a Glock fan. They don't fit me, and I can not shoot them well. They are a well made gun. If they fit you. great! they are a good, inexpensive firearm that has proven it's self all over the world.
This sounds like he has an agenda.

Tonk · « **Reply #19 on:** November 20, 2009, 04:44:18 PM »

Savage I own a Glock 22 and like it a lot actually but I like my 10mm better OK. Now I get to watch the boys from the FBI and other various police departments run through their practice sessions, as well as those who compete in the tournaments etc.

There is always someone and sometimes even more than just one competitor that forgets to take the safety off their 1911 model pistol during the run. Yes, the stress of compition I would think is no more than the stress of a real life carjacking or mugging attempt.

I can also speak for myself, in the fact that my right thumb if often not capable of taking the safety off of one of my other pistols, such as a Kimber or Springfield etc. I also have a tuff time with the de-cocking levers of a Sig. Arthritis is not kind to the human body at times.

m1key · « **Reply #20 on:** November 22, 2009, 07:56:46 PM »

Glocks ARE inherently unsafe...to the recipient.

shootinpreacher48 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 03, 2009, 10:23:45 AM »

the only thing about a glock that would make it unsafe would be reloads out of a glock due to the unsupported chamber. other then that they are great safe guns.

Cottonwood · « **Reply #22 on:** December 05, 2009, 05:59:45 AM »

Quote from: Tonk on November 19, 2009, 06:34:21 PM

OldShooter do you own a Glock? Now to start the ball rolling once more, I will tell you, that the only real SAFETY on any gun lies between your ears!!!

+1 on that one.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #23 on:** December 05, 2009, 06:54:53 AM »

Dictionary defines "inherently unsafe" as: Condition of ever-present hazard requiring special handling, storage, transportation, and usage precautions at all times to avoid damage and/or injury.

Well heck yea they are inherently unsafe! Especially if you are careless or on the business end of one!

Savage · « **Reply #24 on:** December 05, 2009, 10:12:15 AM »

Quote from: shootinpreacher48 on December 03, 2009, 10:23:45 AM

the only thing about a glock that would make it unsafe would be reloads out of a glock due to the unsupported chamber. other then that they are great safe guns.

Yep, let's keep those nasty reloads out of those Glocks kids.

Savage

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #25 on:** December 07, 2009, 02:58:42 AM »

Does that make all guns with unsupported chambers unsafe ?

bubbinator · « **Reply #26 on:** January 12, 2010, 07:52:52 PM »

I concur with the "operator error" crowd on the saftey issue. If you keep your finger off the trigger, it won't go boom. If you don't like the trigger, Glock (and others) make two higher poundage triggers. Our issue was a 5#, and it worked fine. As to the unsupported chamber, Federal had a lot of 155 gr. Hydra-shok out there for a while that blew up several guns I worked on. It was bad ammo, loaded too hot. The extractors were gone, mags destroyed, but the shooters were not injured, though a couple needed to change their britches. That has been recalled years ago, buy it won't hurt to call Federal to check if someone offers you a deal on some old looking 155 Hydra-shok!

Oldshooter · « **Reply #27 on:** January 12, 2010, 10:41:17 PM »

I have come to the conclusion after careful study that, well................. a lot of people are inherently unsafe! I may never understand why someone would want to take a proven 230 grain man stopper and load it with a 155 grain bullet. Are they tryin to make a 357 mag outa a 45? This is primarily a weapon designed to shoot people with if my understanding is correct and it has worked for years, slinging a big hunk of lead down range rapidly and efficiently. (Nothing against a 357!) A 45 aint meant to be a 357. Doing that is like buying a Cadillac and taking out the North-star V8 and dropping a six cylinder in it to improve fuel economy!

Sometimes I think we have to much time on our hands. I try to keep an open mind, and if someone will explain it to this old man I will gladly ~~Listen~~ read.

Savage · « **Reply #28 on:** January 13, 2010, 02:25:37 AM »

Just for clarification: The 155gr HS load was a .40 S&W round.

Savage

Oldshooter · « **Reply #29 on:** January 13, 2010, 05:14:51 AM »

ok that makes a little more sense.