Author Topic: Defining torture - COLONEL BUD DAY  (Read 636 times)

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Offline Redhawk1

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Defining torture - COLONEL BUD DAY
« on: November 19, 2009, 05:34:42 AM »
I got shot down over N Vietnam in 1967, a Sqdn. Commander.   
After I returned in 1973...I published 2 books that dealt a lot
with "real torture" in Hanoi .  Our make believe president is
branding our country as a bunch of torturers when he has
no idea what torture is.
 
As for me, put thru a mock execution because I would not respond...
pistol whipped on the head...same event..  Couple of days later...
hung by my feet all day. I escaped and a couple of weeks later, I got
shot and recaptured.  Shot was OK...what happened afterwards was not.
 
They marched me to Vinh...put me in the rope trick, trick...almost
pulled my arms out of the sockets. Beat me on the head with a
little wooden rod until my eyes were swelled shut, and my unshot,
unbroken hand a pulp.
 
Next day hung me by the arms...rebroke my right wrist...wiped
out the nerves in my arms that control the hands...rolled my fingers
up into a ball.  Only left the slightest movement of my L forefinger. 
So I started answering with some incredible lies.
 
Sent me to Hanoi strapped to a barrel of gas in the back of a truck.
 
Hanoi..on my knees....rope trick again..  Beaten by a big fool. 
 
Into leg irons on a bed in Heartbreak Hotel.
 
Much kneeling--hands up at Zoo.
 
Really bad beating for refusing to condemn Lyndon Johnson.
 
Several more kneeling events.  I could see my knee bone thru
kneeling holes.
 
There was an escape from the annex to the Zoo.  I was the Senior
Officer of a large building because of escape...they started a mass
torture of all commanders.
 
I think it was July 7, 1969...they started beating me with a car fan
belt.  In first 2 days I took over 300 strokes...then stopped counting
because I never thought I would live thru it.
 
They continued day-night torture to get me to confess to a non-existent
part in the escape.  This went on for at least 3 days.  On my knees....
fan belting...cut open my scrotum with fan belt stroke.  opened up
both knee holes again.  My fanny looked like hamburger...I could not
lie on my back.
 
They tortured me into admitting that I was in on the escape...and
that my 2 room-mates knew about it.
 
The next day I denied the lie.
 
They commenced torturing me again with 3- 6- or 9 strokes of
the fan belt every day from about July 11 or 12rh..to 14 October
1969.  I continued to refuse to lie about my roommates again.
 
Now, the point of this is that our make-believe
president has declared to the world that we (U.S..) are a bunch of
torturers...Thus it will be OK to torture us next time when they
catch us....because that is what the U.S. does.
 
Our make-believe president is a know nothing fool who thinks
that pouring a little water on some one's face, or hanging a pair of
women's pants over an Arabs head is TORTURE.  He is a meathead.
 
I just talked to MOH holder Leo Thorsness, who was also in my squadron,
 in jail...as was John McCain...and we agree that McCain does
not speak for the POW group when he claims that Al Gharib was
torture...or that "water boarding" is torture.
 
Our president and those fools around him who keep bad mouthing
our great country are a disgrace to the United States .  Please pass
this info on to Sean Hannity.  He is free to use it to point out the
stupidity of the claims that water boarding...which has no after
effect...is torture. 
If it got the Arab to cough up the story about how he planned the attack on the twin towers in NYC ...
hurrah for the guy who poured the water. 
____________________________________________________________________
 
"Bud" Day, Medal Of Honor Recipient
 
George Everett "Bud" Day(born February 24, 1925) is a retired
U.S. Air Force Colonel and Command Pilot who served during the
Vietnam War. He is often cited as being the most decorated U.S.   
service member since General Douglas MacArthur, having
received some seventy decorations, a majority for actions
in combat. Day is a recipient of the Medal of Honor. 
If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
Jesus Christ and the American G. I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom

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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Defining torture - COLONEL BUD DAY
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2009, 05:48:24 AM »
Quote
Our make-believe president is a know nothing fool who thinks
that pouring a little water on some one's face, or hanging a pair of
women's pants over an Arabs head is TORTURE.  He is a meathead.

Well said Colonel Bud Day Sir!

Thanks for your service and contributions! We are in your debt Sir!
He may not read this but I wanted to say it anyway, it needed to be said!




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Offline MGMorden

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Re: Defining torture - COLONEL BUD DAY
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2009, 06:02:38 AM »
The most telling part of his story was:

Quote
Only left the slightest movement of my L forefinger.
So I started answering with some incredible lies.

It's been proven over and over that the application of torture methods (argue degrees all you want to - all it ends up being is 1 upmanship) generally result in bad info being given.  Why tell the truth when a lie will make the pain stop just as quick?  Particularly in cases where the subject may not even know the information you're looking for.  What other opportunity does he have?

Regardless of what anyone has done, I prefer the moral highground.  If they've done a crime charge them with it, and either jail them or quickly execute them.  Claiming that we're not AS bad doesn't give much comfort.  

Offline Redtail1949

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Re: Defining torture - COLONEL BUD DAY
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2009, 09:11:54 AM »
many claim to know what torture is or is not...believe me if you have witnessed it like i have you will know what is and is not.

the south vietnamese would interrogate NVA and let me tell you something they got hem to talk..the worst i have ever seen were the ROK's no question they would get the information they wanted.

our biggest fear was falling into the hands of the nva as a prisoner those that did suffered greatly.

Offline rio grande

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Re: Defining torture - COLONEL BUD DAY
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2009, 02:37:14 PM »
So what are you saying?  Torture is OK as long as it's not as bad as you experienced?
All torture is wrong.  
And it's not accurate to say the United States has not facilitated torture just as bad as described - sorry to inform you guys - including rape, mock executions, waterboarding to near-death, etc. - and we 'rendition' suspects to other countries such as Egypt and let them do all that and worse.

Waterboarding?
In 1947, the United States charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for carrying out another form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian. The subject was strapped on a stretcher that was tilted so that his feet were in the air and head near the floor, and small amounts of water were poured over his face, leaving him gasping for air until he agreed to talk.

Asano was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor.
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a1947waterboardwarcrime


Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Defining torture - COLONEL BUD DAY
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2009, 02:51:17 PM »
So what are you saying?  Torture is OK as long as it's not as bad as you experienced?
All torture is wrong.  
And it's not accurate to say the United States has not facilitated torture just as bad as described - sorry to inform you guys - including rape, mock executions, waterboarding to near-death, etc. - and we 'rendition' suspects to other countries such as Egypt and let them do all that and worse.

Waterboarding?
In 1947, the United States charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for carrying out another form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian. The subject was strapped on a stretcher that was tilted so that his feet were in the air and head near the floor, and small amounts of water were poured over his face, leaving him gasping for air until he agreed to talk.


Asano was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor.
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a1947waterboardwarcrime




Well this post makes me all the more certain that these pukes will get aquitted! There are too many that feel this way and if they are on the jury ,and if the judge follows the laws of evidence that i'm familiar with , they will go free!
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Offline powderman

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Re: Defining torture - COLONEL BUD DAY
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2009, 03:14:27 PM »
If I knew that somebody had information that would save the life of a loved one, I guarantee you that theres NOTHING I wouldn't do to that person to gain that information. Call it what you want. I value human life over scum any day. POWDERMAN.   :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Defining torture - COLONEL BUD DAY
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2009, 03:20:26 PM »
I have no problem with doing whatever it takes to defeat the muslim animals.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline JASmith

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Re: Defining torture - COLONEL BUD DAY
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2009, 05:17:09 PM »
Bud Day is right on!

The line defining torture is somewhere between his experience and water-boarding.  

We need to define what is and what is not torture.  The line has to be in the direction of serious discomfort and uncertainty.

My worry is that all of this uncontrolled mouthing about torture will take us to the point that simple confinement is treated as torture!  The result would be that we are neither allowed to capture or kill those who are doing that to us.  Mind games routinely played by law-enforcement and interrogators will be prohibited because they won't be allowed to talk with either criminal or military prisoners for fear that the very simplest of questions will be viewed as "mental torture" by some.

Let's show some spine and do what's necessary short of causing serious physical injury or insanity. Simple mental anuish is not torture. The lies will happen regardless of the physical circumstance.

Any comments by a prisoner can help define paths to good intlligence but always need corroboration.

Offline magooch

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Re: Defining torture - COLONEL BUD DAY
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2009, 04:21:18 AM »
I consider it torture to hear the voice of, or see the face of the fool that lives in the White House.  And yes, I think we should do away with that form of turture.
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