Cleaning method of corrosive ammo?

[His lordship.]

I have been shooting military bolt actions for years with corrosive ammo, and I am wondering if I am over doing it.  My method is to run GI water based bore cleaner on my patched cleaning rod through the barrel several times until the patch comes out clean, then wipe it dry, then run Hoppes #9 through it once, all this on the day of shooting, let it soak overnight, then clean out the residual soot and copper fowling the next day.  

Lately I have been wiping out the Hoppes on day two, apply more Hoopes #9, let it soak for a third day and then final clean and oiling as there was still more copper fowling in the bore by the third day.  

A guy at the local range fired several steel cased cartridges (Russian) through his Mosin Nagant bolt action rifle and I kept the steel casings to see how long rust would appear inside them without cleaning, to simulate the period of time corrosion would happen in a rifle barrel.  The humidity was average, and it took 3 weeks before the rust spots were visible inside the cases, I checked them every other day or so.  I have found that with black powder in my muzzle loader revolvers that rust will appear after 24 hours of not cleaning them.

My question is this...if I shoot a Mosin Nagant or a Mauser bolt action using corrosive ammo, will it take 3 weeks before it will rust, if so, then I could be more casual on cleaning them up, instead of the hectic urgency similar to cleaning my 1851 Colt replica revolver?  I understand humidity will affect this experiment, but has anyone gone along time without cleaning and not damaged the rifling using this corrosive military ammo? :-)

Thanks

[1911crazy]

First I think its how many rounds we shoot of corrosive that counts too. Shot after shot the salt gets into the pores of the metal.  
I can only tell you what I do the minute I get home I use GI rifle bore cleaner and run 3 or 4 wet patches thru the gun pulling them from the breech out to the end of the barrel. Then run one dry one to leave it dry then oil the bore up.  I do this the same time I get home so I don't forget to later.  I never let my guns sit with salt from corrosive primers in the barrels.  All my guns have excellent bores and I want them to stay that way.  I have mausers and mosins from the late 70's and they(bores) still look like when i bought them.                       BigBill

I'm sure we are going to get some guys who wash their barrels out with some kind of formula like soap and water with squirt bottles at the range while the barrels are still hot too.  To each his own and as long as we clean them good its ok.

I have to also say some make it sound like dump truck loads of salt will come out of our barrels too?? But the salt is only in the primer and I have to agree with you it won't ruin a good barrel overnight.   But if your like me and have a bad memory time to time I forget I have a better chance of ruining a good gun.  So i have my gun cleaning ritual after every outing and once a year they come out of storage after hunting season and at christmas time to get their annual cleaning and wipe down again.

[SBF]

My method is quite simple as well.  I take a small spray bottle of original formula Windex (it's the ammonia that neutralizes the corrosive salts) with me shooting in my range bag.  After I'm done shooting I'll pull the bolt and spray off the bolt face.  I'll then spray some down into the chamber/bore until it runs out the other end.  I don't always have time to clean my guns as soon as I get home (2 small kids keep my running at home  :grin: )  This way I don't have to worry.

I have a buddy who uses a baby food jar with ammonia in it.  He dips the bolt face and pours a small amount down the bore with a small funnel for the same effect, different method.

Many folks are scared of corrosive ammo but there is nothing to be concerned about if you use one of these methods (either listed here or above).

Happy Shootin'

[John Traveler]

Sorry to be the one to notice the fly in the soup, BUT:

Ammonia does NOT "neutralize" the primer salts!  The firing residue consists of potassium chlorate converting into potassium chloride after firing.

It's WATER that dissolves the primer residue (potassium chloride) and allows it to be wiped or flushed from the bore.  Without the water, a bore cleaner merely provides a medium for dissolving smokeless powder ("nitro" powder) and bullet jacket material (lead, nickel, guildijng metal, or copper, mostly).

NO, you can not OVER-CLEAN a weapon after firing corrosive primed ammo!

I once detail cleaned a 9mm luger carbine after firing with 1970's Winchester-manufactured Israeli surplus ammo, oiled and stored for two years.  To my dismay, firing residue had crept out of the pores and lightly rusted the bore, chamber, breechface, and everywhere else the gas/fouling contacted.  

What else do you expect from a smark-alec chemistry major?

John

[SBF]

Sorry I usually fell asleep during chemistry  :-D

I was always told that the ammonia neutralized the salts, but it's the water?  Is there an advantage to using the windex then?  Should I just use water?

I've always used the Windex with no ill effect and thought I was doing good.  I'm not try to be a smart-aleck, I'd just like to know.

[John Traveler]

Yes,

It's the water in Windex that dissolves corrosive primer fouling.  Plain water, either cold, or better yet, hot, will do the same.

The ammonia and other additives are surfactants (break up surface tension) and help to wash out dirt and residue.  It also works to dissolve copper fouling, although a more conentrated form is much faster.

Windex certainly doesn't hurt anything, and black powder shooters love it for the same reason: dissolves BP residues, and makes cleaning much easier.

Oh, by the way, using Hoppe's Number 9 exclusively for cleaning corrosive primer fouling will eventually leave microscopic pitting in your barrel steel.  Firing residues actually penetrate into the steel pores and hide there to do their evil work!  Potassium chloride is hygroscopic (absorbs atmosperic moisture) and that is what promotes bore rusting.  Cleaning solvents and modern one-step cleaners such as Breakfree CLP tend to displace that moisture and bring fouling out so it can be wiped off.

HTH
John

[Robert]

Does an excellent job for corrosive and black.

[ajj]

The big variable, I think, on how fast it rusts is humidity. In Arizona, it might not rust at all. In Arkansas in the summer. I promise you it's overnight. How do I know? You ever seen that Russian softpoint ammo "The cartridge for the shooting of the Big Animals?" It's boldly marked: "Non-Corrosive," right? Not So!

[1911crazy]

I  trust any imported ammo as being marked NON CORROSIVE or CORROSIVE I clean the gun the same way by running wet patches thru it then a dry one thru it then oil it up anyway.  Just to be safe.    BigBill

[S.S.]

It is the water that cuts the salt,
my cleaning "fluid" consists of hot water
and a good "Squirt" of my wife's dish washing
detergent (She still does them by hand).
If I start to see copper fouling I use the
IOSSO paste that you can usually find at wal-mart
sporting goods and simply follow the directions on the
tube. (Good stuff, try it if you havn't already)