Author Topic: Golf Ball Cannon---NOW A 1.5" Bore CANNON (Read 6917 times)

405winchester · « **on:** November 19, 2009, 03:29:43 PM »

If I was going to make a cannon barrel, which metal would be best??
Average Mechanical Properties
Condition Tensile ksi Yield ksi Elong.in 2'' % Red. of Area Brinell Hardness
4140 Annealed* 80 60 25% — 163
4140 Vac. Deg. Q&T** 140 130 13% 40% 285/341

I was thinking of getting a 3 1/2'' O.D. with a 7/8" wall and a 1.75" bore but it comes in the 4140 Vac. Deg. Q&T. or i get a 3 7/4'' O.D. with a 3/4" wall and a 1.75" bore in the 4140 annealed. What would be the best??? Also does anyone have a info on doing the press fit, pinned and welded breech plug??
Thanks guys!

Double D · « **Reply #1 on:** November 19, 2009, 03:44:17 PM »

The steel is fine.

The only safe cannon/mortar building standards that I am aware of come from the North South South skirmish Association. They recommend the wall over the breech be one caliber thick. If you have a chamber that is on inch in diameter, the you wall should als be one inch in diameter or totla diameter of 3 inched over the breech.

We have a link to N-SAA rules and regulations in the sticky at the top of the board called safe loads an cannon plan.

Breech plug construction is also discussed in the N0SAA rules. They recommend shrink fit and weld. Can't convince my self that pinning adds to strength. I my mind it weaken the barrel.

You will also find correct bore dimensions in our reference sticky for a golf ball.

Quote from: Cat Whisperer on September 12, 2004, 02:01:30 PM

A golf ball gun with proper windage would need a minimum bore of 1.723 inch.
The diameter of a golf ball is 1.68 inch. . (1.68/39)x40=1.723
http://www.learnaboutgolf.com/beginner/balltypes.html

GGaskill · « **Reply #2 on:** November 19, 2009, 03:59:10 PM »

Both of those steels are plenty strong but absolute strength is not the only thing to consider when making the choice. All flavors of 4140 are not readily weldable and, for me at least, this would be a greater concern than material strength, as black powder pressures are not real high when using normal shot weights and powder charges.

Since welding is my choice for attaching trunnions (I normally drill from solid or thread a breech plug), a material that welds easily is more important than one of extreme strength. That is why I make barrels from either 1018 or 1020. Both are adequately strong and easily weldable.

Victor3 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 19, 2009, 09:43:34 PM »

There are formulas available (probably online somewhere) for shrink-fitting of steel assemblies.

For your size of tubing, I'd make a 3" long plug, .003-.004" larger than the ID you bore the end of the tube (you do need to bore it to make sure it's round). Heat the tube to ~500-600 degrees, drop the plug in and let the tube cool.

On the weld, if you were to put a 1/4" x 45 degree chamfer on the ID of the tube and OD of the plug and fill it, that would be more than enough if you have a solid shrink-fit.

Unless you're already familiar with the procedures required to weld 4140 successfully, I'd take GGaskill's advice and go with a more forgiving material.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #4 on:** November 20, 2009, 12:07:39 AM »

Agree with mild steels being OK (1018-1020- et al.) One of the first one's built and posted here used 1024 to line a bronze or brass barrel.

They are excellent for taking the REPEATED stresses of firing. I look at the Charpy notch test as being a good indicator of being able to handle resistance to stress cracks MUCH more than tensile and ultimate strengths. (Because strength-hardness-brittleness go together.) Brittleness makes the difference between a cannon and a bomb.

4130/4140 steels are close. Both should be preheated prior to welding. (Get a CERTIFIED welder - thay should know what they're doing - it is your life.) 4130 is more weldable than 4140 or 4150.

Good design (adequate wall thicknesses and a rounded form of the inside transitions of surfaces (to reduce stress risers) ) and good mild steel are a quite reasonable way of building cannons. 4140 is today's standard for rifle barrels - but 1018 was used EXTENSIVELY.

FTB1-SS · « **Reply #5 on:** November 20, 2009, 01:44:42 AM »

Pinning does not add enough strength to the design to use in some cases, depending on pin diameter, it could weaken the barrel. If you have access to a lathe, threading the breach plug then welding adds much more strength.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #6 on:** November 20, 2009, 02:03:22 AM »

Threading is OK, shrink fit is better as one looses much stength from the cutting into the metal by threading.
Trade-offs in everything.

405winchester · « **Reply #7 on:** November 20, 2009, 03:06:00 AM »

What I want to make would be a golf ball cannon about 20" OAL with a straight barrel(like a pipe). Would it be best to buy the hot rolled round 1018 or 1020(4") and bore a hole down the middle (1.723") and stop short and then use a smaller size to do my powder pocket. or use a 4" pipe with a 1.5" hole and bore it bigger and shrink fit and weld my plug?
Does anyone have any drawings of this type? and If i shrink fit the plug, does anyone have a drawing of the plug. I just need pics!! Alot of the threads I have been looking at talk about pics but i can't see them

Thanks Guys, I want to make this as a Christmas present for my brother!

GGaskill · « **Reply #8 on:** November 20, 2009, 06:55:46 PM »

DO NOT use anything called "pipe" for a cannon tube. Pipe is designed for liquids, usually at low pressures as compared with black powder explosions. Thick wall tubing is not to be confused with pipe.

GGaskill · « **Reply #9 on:** November 20, 2009, 07:00:20 PM »

I just need pics!! Alot of the threads I have been looking at talk about pics but i can't see them.

Lots of pictures get posted on various "free" hosting sites that do not retain the images forever. Consequently, older threads become filled with various kinds of not found icons or no images at all. Not much can be done about this other than for posters to use more permanent hosting sites or repost the images when they disappear.

Speaking of images, below is a drawing of the breechplug I made for a bore liner that converted a 2.25" bore to a golf ball bore.

It should also show a chamfer between the plug and tube where the weld is built up. The plug is about .003" larger than the space bored for it. In this case, I think it was just pressed in place rather than heating the tube, but I really don't remember those details. The internal curve (I used the 3/8 radius) was cut by step turning and smoothing the steps with files and abrasive paper. By recessing the chamber from the edge, the explosion tends to expand the lip of the breech plug against the tube which is trying to shrink against the oversize plug and prevent fouling from getting between the two pieces.

Victor3 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 20, 2009, 08:55:05 PM »

Quote from: 405winchester on November 20, 2009, 03:06:00 AM

What I want to make would be a golf ball cannon about 20" OAL with a straight barrel

If you just wanted to buy something like this, you might look at what Dom Carpenter (one of the board sponsors here) has to offer. I'm sure if you talked to him, he could make you something just like you're describing for a reasonable price.

Look at the 2nd cannon down on this page...

http://blackpowder-cannons.com/products.htm

Double D · « **Reply #11 on:** November 21, 2009, 01:12:25 AM »

Click on this link Safe Loads and Cannon plans & project, BPM&C FAQ's, Posting Pictures and safety

Or just click on this N-SSA National Rules for Cannons Click on it, it''s a hot link. That will take you to N-SSA rules. Go to section 10 there you will find the cannon construction guidlines.

405winchester · « **Reply #12 on:** November 21, 2009, 04:33:10 PM »

Got a price on 4.5" od Hot rolled seamless with a 1.5"id ( bore to size) for $58.00 a foot. Does that sound like a good price?? You guys have been great with all my questions!!!

Double D · « **Reply #13 on:** November 21, 2009, 04:51:50 PM »

To small for a Golf ball cannon.

Bore for a golf ball cannon is 1.73 minumum. Tha means the diameter over the breech needs to 5.169 minumum diameter.

It will work if you build chambered howitzer or mortar with a chamber no greater than 1.5 inch.

405winchester · « **Reply #14 on:** November 21, 2009, 04:59:20 PM »

Quote from: Victor3 on November 20, 2009, 08:55:05 PM

Quote from: 405winchester on November 20, 2009, 03:06:00 AM
What I want to make would be a golf ball cannon about 20" OAL with a straight barrel

If you just wanted to buy something like this, you might look at what Dom Carpenter (one of the board sponsors here) has to offer. I'm sure if you talked to him, he could make you something just like you're describing for a reasonable price.

Look at the 2nd cannon down on this page...

http://blackpowder-cannons.com/products.htm

If you look at the link, it does not look like that cannon is over 5"od?
What am I missing?

Double D · « **Reply #15 on:** November 21, 2009, 05:18:13 PM »

If you read the description you will see i thas a 1 inch powder chamber.

405winchester · « **Reply #16 on:** November 21, 2009, 05:29:59 PM »

So the powder chamber is 1" .. You would have a step down from 1.723 to 1 with a chamfer ?

GGaskill · « **Reply #17 on:** November 21, 2009, 05:56:12 PM »

In that example, yes. But you don't have to have a chamber only 1" diameter unless you were using 3" diameter material.

Victor3 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 21, 2009, 11:14:02 PM »

Quote from: 405winchester on November 21, 2009, 04:33:10 PM

Got a price on 4.5" od Hot rolled seamless with a 1.5"id ( bore to size) for $58.00 a foot. Does that sound like a good price?? You guys have been great with all my questions!!!

Sounds kinda high to me, but I haven't bought any tube in a while. Since you can bore the ID, solid could most likely be had cheaper than tube.

Making your own barrel brings a lot of satisfaction; I've made a few. The reason I mentioned Dom is that he could probably make what you want for about the same price as you would pay for material, tools and supplies. He does custom work, so don't go only by what he has listed on his website.

405winchester · « **Reply #19 on:** November 27, 2009, 02:54:48 PM »

Now if I have the powder chamber at 1.5" and the barrel will be 4.5" overall- What can i cut the barrel down to as i go away from the powder chamber to the end of the barrel?

GGaskill · « **Reply #20 on:** November 27, 2009, 03:13:02 PM »

You probably could go as thin as .25" at the muzzle but I would go with at least .5", myself.

dan610324 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 27, 2009, 03:27:41 PM »

I have not found any modern recomendations , but the old recomendations say 0.5 X bore diameter in wall thickness in the muzzle area

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #22 on:** November 27, 2009, 04:21:38 PM »

   405winchester, The diameter of your cannon's muzzle depends on two other factors. These are the amount of taper from breech to muzzle and the length of your tube. We really hate to assume anything, but we will assume two other things here to make it easy for you to make an elegant, good looking tube, rather than something that looks like a circus tent stake. We will assume that you will buy enough steel of 4.5" Dia. to make a tube of 24" or 36" length and a bore size of 1.5" Dia.; why cause yourself unnecessary grief with forming a chamber? If the owner ever wants to shoot this thing, the sponges and worms and powder charges are much, much easier to build with a straight bore and chamber, besides, golf balls are extremely poor projectiles, with 1.5" lead or zinc balls being at least a hundred times more accurate!

   So then, what's a good looking taper? The Dahlgren boat howitzers look really nice with tapers of .44" dia. per foot of length. Most of the good looking field gun tubes of 6 and 12 pounder size, use a similar taper and the CW howitzers, both Union and Confederate used a .60" dia. taper per foot. The 24 Pdr. Flank Howitzer, M1844 is one example. For a relatively short cannon, as your's will probably be, it is decent looking. Without a taper it would look like a section of sewer pipe laying beside the road next to the ditch.

   If you make the tube 24" long, with a 4.5" Dia. at the breech and a taper of .60" Dia. per foot, the muzzle diameter will be 3.30" and the wall thickness at the muzzle will be 1.15".

   If you make the tube 36" long, with a 4.5" Dia. at the breech and a taper of .60" Dia. per foot, the muzzle diameter will be 2.70" and the wall thickness at the muzzle will be .60".

Either of these would be pleasing to the eye, and especially if this gun is to be a gift, you want it to look that way.

Mike and Tracy

Double D · « **Reply #23 on:** November 27, 2009, 04:44:01 PM »

The questions you are asking tell me you have limited experience with cannon design and building. If you want a fairly fool proof method of building a cannon that is safe, functional and doesn't look like a piece of sewer pipe, get a set of plans for an existing pattern.

You can buy them for any of the sources listed in the Cannon Internet link list, look in our stickies foreplans or just ask for them right here.

carronader · « **Reply #24 on:** November 28, 2009, 04:15:03 AM »

Winchester, before you go off throwing money around on plans, maybe better to decide on ........period-field or naval-yank or european or you could end up with stack of worthless info you'll never need.If you gonna stick with one area then ok but not until you have an idea.I've posted some which might help on your question..........with luck more of our more .............generous posters... will put more......am I right in thinking you just want some ideas to chew over ?
You must forgive some of our more senile.......oops.....sorry ...........senior members... are not allowed out much and don't get dirty either............and some, like the Montana Moneybags and the Colorado Carnegies seem to reach for the wallet too quickly but there are some working stiffs here too. I hope these posts help.

carronader · « **Reply #25 on:** November 28, 2009, 04:31:58 AM »

Think I'm going senile, messed up the attachments. missed this one.

405winchester · « **Reply #26 on:** November 28, 2009, 04:38:46 AM »

OK I like the first 2 you put up! I found this one to, it's the second one down on the page( I like the first one to because its simple) http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums//index.php?topic=44320.msg255863#msg255863. If I was to do the one on the page attached, would anyone have a set of plans for the gun and the carriage?? I might do what was mentioned above and keep the bore at 1.5", but where and how much are the balls?? I saw the thread about steel golf ball size balls for a buck? But the machining might cost more than just buying 1.5 balls?

RocklockI · « **Reply #27 on:** November 28, 2009, 04:53:51 AM »

Caronader , That 4th one down is very nice. I like the simple little carriage .

carronader · « **Reply #28 on:** November 28, 2009, 06:12:00 AM »

you iz still a contender . I know you iz gonna be the Champ but wait until you get a few more wins before going for the belt. You'll get what you need for that one.

405winchester · « **Reply #29 on:** November 28, 2009, 06:23:33 AM »

Quote from: carronader on November 28, 2009, 06:12:00 AM

you iz still a contender . I know you iz gonna be the Champ but wait until you get a few more wins before going for the belt. You'll get what you need for that one.

What???