Couple arrested for not tipping

[Old Syko]

Bethlehem Area News, News poll, Today's newspaper-news » No tip leads to trip in police cruiser for pair of local college students
By Express-Times staff
November 17, 2009, 12:32AM
Moravian College senior Leslie Pope and John Wagner, a Lehigh University graduate student, were handcuffed and transported from the Lehigh Pub to Bethlehem police headquarters Oct. 23 after failing to pay a mandatory 18 percent gratuity.

AP File PhotoBuffalo wingsPope and Wagner, members of a party of eight during happy hour, refused to pay a $16.35 service charge on top of their $73.87 tab because of what they say was shoddy service as well as a surcharge that was nearly 5 percent higher than the 18 percent listed on the menu.

“Gratuity is thanking you for your service,” Pope, 22, said. “You can’t give us terrible, terrible service and expect a tip.”

The group reportedly had to wait more than an hour for salad and wings and had to approach the bar themselves for drink refills and find their own napkins and silverware as their waitress smoked outside.

The general manager of the Lehigh Pub, at 4 S. New St., declined to comment.

Pope and Wagner, 24, have pleaded not guilty and await a summary trial before District Judge Nancy Matos Gonzalez.

“It is minorly ridiculous,” Pope, a native of Pottsville, Pa., said.
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I tip and tip well in apreciation of excellent service.  I'll be dipped if anyone will tell me when to tip or how much, so I guess they would have to arrest me also in this case.  If a mandatory gratuity is necessary, above and beyond the check I'm presented, you can rest assured they won't get my business or the business of others I know.

What right did the uneducated business owner, or the attending LEOs for that matter, think they could possibly have for this action.  Just another shakedown IMHO.

[billy_56081]

I absolutly will not eat at a place that adds the tip itself. I tip on the quality of service. One time at a Mexican resturaunt in Columbus Ohio the service was so absolutly terrible, I left a tip of a penny right in the center of the plate, I kind of figured that was more insulting than nothing.

[magooch]

That had better be one damn fine restaurant, or they are cruisin for a loosin.  The bad publicity from this would be enough to put the average eatery out of business.

[LONGTOM]

I would have given the waitress the best TIP of the day,
I would have told her to find another job, this was doesn't pay to well!


LONGTOM

[m-g Willy]

It would be nice if this couple got enough of other students to all go there to eat on a friday night.
Fill the place with students.
Then just order a coffee and nothing more.
Do home work or just BS till midnight.
See how much money the resturant makes in on night just selling coffee!.

[Redtail1949]

had the same experiance in denver, colorado when handed a bill with the tip of 20% added. the service was not very good and i probably would have given 10-15%. i did not like the idea that the cashier decided for me whaat i would pay. i flat refused and in the heat of the argument cops were called. the ending was i tipped nothing and was told never to come back. however, it was left to the manager by the cops wheter or not i would be charged with whatever it was for failing to pay the bill.

i left steaming mad over that and i have taken the stance plain jane put the food on the table..will give 10% to the waitress (they have to live) but unless it is execptional attention and prompt service they will get no more, regardless.

i think its part of the deal that you bring the food to me that i buy from you. i only give 10% cause most of the waitresses are not paid very well.

[BBF]

Most of those mandatory tips are for groups of 6 to 8 people or more.

I don't travel in a herd so it doesn't apply. I expect at least one visit from the waiter/waitress before the meal is consumed to inquire if anything is needed or not to my satisfaction before a tip is left.

[Dee]

I believe that if I understood correctly the TIP was "ADVERTISED" as mandatory and advertised well, as such. I could be mistaken.
Perhaps I am TOO OLD SCHOOL but, NOBODY tells me when to tip, or how much to tip. As far as I am concerned I have agreed to pay for the meal I get, but the tipping process will be up to me, as it is MY MONEY.
I always tip to the good waitress, and I sometimes tip to the poor one, and sometimes not.
I used to say that this sort of thing could only happen NORTH of the Mason Dixon Line, if you get my drift, but the migration to the south, has blurred that line. Now? Who the hell knows? I just know what I'm gonna do.

[powderman]

Tips should be earned, not mandated. Good service 10-15 %, poor service NOTHING. POWDERMAN.  

[fr3db3ar]

And when I tip....(it's almost all the time @ 20%) I very rarely add it to the check.  I try to use cash......that money was taxed once already, it doesn't need to go through the system again.

[JustaShooter]

The way I see it if a mandatory gratuity (like I've seen at some places for parties of 8 or more) is advertised, say on the menu in a conspicuous way, then you have two choices:

1, order, eat, enjoy, and pay up, regardless of the quality of service.

2, take your business elsewhere before ordering.


To do anything else, like go ahead and eat and enjoy then refuse to pay the gratuity, is in my opinion wrong.

Just a Shooter

[Redtail1949]

in my case the mandantory tip notice was at the cashier..no where else. the size of my party was 4. i see it as just a backdoor war of raiseing prices. now if i see it on the menu or anywhere before i take a seat or before i order I LEAVE...

[mechanic]

I once had a waitress who had a cast on one foot, and one elbow.  She told me she was in a car accident the night before.  I left a $20.00 tip on a $5.00 or so check.  I'm like most here, I will always tip at least 10% for routine service, more for exceptional service, but rub me the wrong way and I'll leave a thin dime in the center of the table.  I will not knowingly eat at a restaurant with a mandantory gratuity.  I certainly won't go there the second time.

[torpedoman]

good service= 15% ,,poor service= Don't bet on slow horses.

[MGMorden]

It's a shoddy practice (adding the gratuity into the bill).  Sure, if they noticed it ahead of time then by all means you should be under the impression that when the bill gets there you pay it - you know that's part of the deal before hand.  However the signage advertising that gratuity is added isn't always obvious.

My rule on tipping is simple: $1 for every $6 spent, rounding up to the nearest dollar.  That works out to between 17% and 25% most of the time, with higher bills tending to converge closer and closer to that 17% mark.  Typically I'll do this for even somewhat bad service - unless they just totally screw it up I'm going to leave something (put it this way - the last time I didn't leave *any* tip was at a sushi place about 18 months ago when I had a roach crawl across my plate and saw two more crawling on the other empty tables).  That said IMHO a tip should ALWAYS be optional. 

However, I get really ticked when I go in somewhere, get my bill, leave a tip, and then realize that the tip was already in the bill, meaning they added 15-20% on top of the bill and then I ended up tipping them AGAIN.  It doesn't happen often, but it has happened to me a few times.  If I miss that signage in that case then I couldn't fault anyone else for missing it before they eat. 

Heck one night really got me angry.  Some friends and I went out to a new local restaurant.  My brother and his wife were with us.  We had I think 9 people that night.  The menu said that tip was added for parties of 8 or more but the waitress specifically said that she didn't add the tip because she thought that the customer should decide how much to tip.  We eat dinner - food is okay, service is ok.  We've been there almost an hour, everyone is done eating, and we're about to ask for our bills and the power goes out.  Apparently the shopping mall across the street had a small fire and knocked out the power for the whole block.  The restaurant doesn't allow anyone else in because everything is down.

However, they also say that they can't cash anyone out since all the computers are down (so they can't print a bill) as well as their card scanner.  So now we're sitting in the silent dark, were already ready to leave, and couldn't even order any drinks or anything to pass the time.  The manager says that until the power and computers come back on everyone just has to sit tight and stay in the building.  Naturally them saying we COULDN'T leave until the power came back on sparked some nerves.  We were doing ok for the first 10 minutes or so, but beyond that frustrations started mounting.  After an hour my brother's nerves got the best of him and he was cursing out the manager and threatening to kick certain parts of his lower rear anatomy.  FINALLY the power comes back on and the bills come - most of the table has decided that after the ordeal they're just not tipping tonight.  I however figure that it wasn't the waitress's fault that the power went out, and it was mostly the manager being an ass, so I still tip her.  Later I look at the receipt only to find that despite her saying that she specifically wouldn't earlier that night, she still added the tip to the bill.  I guess she figured that after that night nobody was going to tip of their own accord, but after that night when I was basically just being nice by trying to tip her despite all the trouble we had I ended up getting conned into tipping her twice. 

Naturally I haven't been back there.

If they're going to try to make tips "mandatory", then stop calling them "tips" or gratuity.  Pay your wait staff more and raise your prices to compensate, that way the customers can actually see the actual price of their meal reflected on the menu.

[45-70.gov]

The way I see it if a mandatory gratuity (like I've seen at some places for parties of 8 or more) is advertised, say on the menu in a conspicuous way, then you have two choices:

1, order, eat, enjoy, and pay up, regardless of the quality of service.

2, take your business elsewhere before ordering.


To do anything else, like go ahead and eat and enjoy then refuse to pay the gratuity, is in my opinion wrong.

Just a Shooter

that  sums  up  my opinion

what  about 6 or 8 seperate bills?......as an  option



in  the case of the  original  post
why  not a court  summons  and  no an  arrest
even  just  a  police report.....so  they can  settle  it  in small  claims
don't the  police have  better things to do [some ons  smoked  a joint  while they were on that call]
i  hope the police  involved  get  fired

[Questor]

Dumb question, but if it's "mandatory" isn't it just a part of the price of the food, and not a tip as is customarily believed? The whole concept of a tip is its voluntary and variable nature, the intent of which is to incent the service people to do a good job?

This is an insulting dumbing down of the waiting profession. And I'm being serious here. A good waiter or waitress absolutely deserves good tips. There's a big difference between excellent and mediocre wait staff. The best of them have an upward mobility toward the restaurants that command higher prices. One can make a decent career out of waiting, and related work in restaurants. If you're going to pay McZombies the same as the best wait staff, then only the McZombies will work there.

[45-70.gov]

i  never  liked  the concept  of tipping

why  won't the  restaraunt  oner  just  pay them a decent  wage?

at  what  point  did  i HIRE  this  un -lisenced  food  handler [waiter]

when  you order  food there is an   implied  contract  with a lisenced  resarant

i  don't  like it   more  when  tips are  pooled and evenly distributed

[Rustyinfla]

  I heard about this story on the morning news show in Tampa Bay last week. When they discussed it they said that the people were charged a mandatory gratuity because there was more than six in the party. The morning show host brought up the point that the word TIPS is an acronym that stands for To Insure Prompt Service. I usually consider 15% a standard tip and am usually more generous than that but given poor service I will tip a nickle or a penny and complain to the manager on the way out.

[MGMorden]

what  about 6 or 8 seperate bills?......as an  option

The mandatory gratuity still applies in such cases. It applies to the "party" size as it pertains to the table, not one one bill.  I've never paid for more than myself and a date in a large group and I've always gotten hit with the mandatory tip on my bill.

[45-70.gov]

if  they  expect a tip  over  10%

then  they are placeing  themselve  above  GOD

same   if  you tip  over  10%

[MGMorden]

if  they  expect a tip  over  10%

then  they are placeing  themselve  above  GOD

same   if  you tip  over  10%

In all fairness, tithing is supposed to apply to one's entire income - tip percentages apply to a certain bill.  The numbers being used as the base of the percentages are apples and oranges, so it's not really fair to compare the percentages themselves either.

[ms]

If they were getting bad service, why didn't they call the manger over and ask for a new waitress? If they didn't  do that they should of just paid the bill. Remember there are four sides to every story sorry Dee. 

[45-70.gov]

maybe  some law enforcement  folks can  answer  this

why  were  only  2 arrested   not  all  who were  served?

why  not a  summons and not an  arrest??

[slim rem 7]

 tithing as i understand it ..is a tenth of the increase .. that is to say a fella figures what he
 has more than at first of the year ,,or some time period..that increase is to be tithed a tenth of..
 now i would never intentionally short the creator or those doing his work here.. but thats the words that i remember..
  as to tipping ,,the resturant can run its buisiness the way it wants to.. im free to go there or not go there if i don t like anything they do..if enough people don t like what they are doing they suffer in profits..
 they probably change that little rule right quick.. thats how free enterprize works.. now this is from a person who dislikes anything but the minumum number of regulation covering free will. jmo i welcome your opinion. slim

[45-70.gov]

so  2  people  have an  arrest  record

over  a difference  of  opinion of  what a tip  is

i  have  been  falsely  arressted  before
it  is  a bad thing  to  do  to someone  presumed  innocent  till  proven  guilty

i  would  under stand  if they  posed  a threat  or  didnt  even pay for the  food

they  just didnt  tip

see  them  in  small  claims  court
just  mark  up  the  food  18%  and  let the  owner  pay  the waitors
then  if they  dont  pay  they  have  STOLEN

[Oldshooter]

Acouple of my kids earned money waiting tables. so I can sympathize with the waitors! that being said, service should demand the tip not policy! I tip a minimum of 15 % when I do and a dime if i dont!
I dont want them to think I just forgot! IF those folk knew  in advance that it was mandatory then they were making a point and have to accept the penalty! If i knew in advance that was gonna happen I prolly go elsewhere!

[gypsyman]

I usually go to a buffet, leave a buck, and call it good. gypsyman

[45-70.gov]

I usually go to a buffet, leave a buck, and call it good. gypsyman

i  with  you

i  work  as a carpenter
i  usualy  don't get  tips

last tip  i  did get  was  $100  on a  $400 dollars job
month before that  got  $200  on  a $600  job

now  are  my future customers  expected  to  tip?

well  i  haven't  paid for  lunch  in  3 weeks
but  i got the  tip  since  the  boss  bought  lunch

[Oldshooter]

What is sad is the fact that Restaurant owners have decided that tipping is what pays the salary of its employees. some of these (mostly) young people get minimum wage or less and are expected to use tip money to fill the gap so the can make a living. Now some do! Sonic "car hops" do quite well down here, I've heard of instances where they can make 30 to 40 k a year.


Just know that if the restaurant owner was forced to pay his employees a fair rate and let them make extra with tips, You could not afford to eat out! the prices would be outrageous!