want to make a very long distance handi shooter? need help? want 1000+ yds

[harley berry]

o.k. I want to make the longest shooting possible handi rifle but what cal should it be give me your advice on this guy's thanks  Harley

[Spanky]

Probably a 25-06 or a 280.     There's always the good ol' 30-06. Are you looking for some long range target or hunting or ??



Spanky

[peternap]

Probably a 25-06 or a 280.     There's always the good ol' 30-06. Are you looking for some long range target or hunting or ??



Spanky

I think I'd go for the 06 because of the heavier bullet, but all of them are really too light for serious wind bucking. This is one case where I'd have to give the nod to the 45/90 or even 120. You'd have to use the BC barrel though and you're burning a lot of powder for that horsepower.

The oldtimers did some impressive shooting with the 45/90 at 1000 yards.

[petemi]

Read "40 Years with the .45-70".  The U.S. Government tested the .45-70 at Cape May N.J. in the late 1800s at one mile at a 6 foot diameter bullseye.  You have to appreciate the fact they were shooting with military sights of the day, and trap door loads, and were putting them in there.  My choice for 1000 yard shooting would be the .308.....it is regularly shot in 1000 yard competition or the .45-70.  I own both and they do well at distance shooting.

Pete

[trotterlg]

Unless you have some compelling reason for using a H&R, you would probably be better served starting with a bolt gun.  Larry

[Spanky]

Unless you have some compelling reason for using a H&R, you would probably be better served starting with a bolt gun.  Larry

A Savage bolt action in a 30 cal. magnum cartridge would be a good place to start.



Spanky

[harley berry]

I have many bolt guns before but really didn't hit anything like a real tight single but maybe it was just the ammo back then,  I just sold a jap arisaka 99  7.7x58 ''last ditch rifle'' for $100.00 cause it didn't really impress me too much

Unless you have some compelling reason for using a H&R, you would probably be better served starting with a bolt gun.  Larry

[trotterlg]

There are always exceptions to things, but gererally a bolt gun will outshoot a break action most any day.  It is just the design of the things, they are more rigid and do not have the variables with the forearm, hinge etc.  But you never know, you may find a shooter in a H&R and figure out how to hold you tongue when you shoot it.  Larry

[billy_56081]

The 280 remington would probaly be at least on paper the hands down winner. It is available with the 26 inch barrel, .284 bullets have the highest B.C. of all the calibers available. At least on paper it is far and away the best.

[handi243]

if they oly made a 6.5 284!

[peternap]

Read "40 Years with the .45-70".  The U.S. Government tested the .45-70 at Cape May N.J. in the late 1800s at one mile at a 6 foot diameter bullseye.  You have to appreciate the fact they were shooting with military sights of the day, and trap door loads, and were putting them in there.  My choice for 1000 yard shooting would be the .308.....it is regularly shot in 1000 yard competition or the .45-70.  I own both and they do well at distance shooting.

Pete

I met Carlos Hathcock a couple of times Pete. He had gotten so he couldn't communicate much the last time, but earlier on, he always confirmed that the 300 WM was a better round. It always lead to heavier bullets.

I can't hold a candle to his shooting, so I just accept his recommendations.

I wish I could go back and pay more attention to what the great shooters said, while they were alive. Elmer keith, Jack Oconner, Hathcock, etc. Even Oconnor liked 220 grain in the 30.06 when hi beloved 270 needed help.

There wa so much done in the late black powder era and early smokeless, with heavy bullet and instinct. We tend to forget the instinct and try to make up for it with flatter shooting rounds.

While I was checking the scope on my rifle today, I played some with plastijacket slugs. I think there's a lot of potential for these huge lumbering things.  Worse than a rainbow trajectory but I think you could shoot them inside a tornado.

[Lefty Dude]

You want a bolt gun, 30/338 wildcat or a 300 Win. Mag. They are the same, 30/338 shoots a little flatter and holds a little more powder.
The 30/338 was the choice of the 1000 yrd. large bore Varmit shooter's at one time.

[Darreld Walton]

At extended ranges, what comes out the end of the barrel, and what the barrel is attached to ain't near as important as experience and a capable shooter who can read wind, light, and mirage, and adjust accordingly.
Whatever you choose, the rifle does need to be a consistent performer.  While the Handi might be able to do it, there are other rifles that give a better starting point.
1-10 twist .308 or .30-06 with 155, 168, or 175's will work out there, and take a look at the scores being posted by the military teams with AR's, 1-7 twist, and 'heavy' .224 bullets.

[Sourdough]

30-06 or 45-70 in that order.

[preventec47]

You cant argue with history but assuming the original question involves limited to
NEF available calibers and it must be a NEF rifle  ( which is how I understood the
question .. lets dont stray too far  ) 

I think the 270  would have the flattest trajectory of any available
standard caliber from NEF assuming the selection of any bullets you want.
Of course the 30 cals have a greater history of target use due to the military's
involvement but as far as pure flat 1000 yard trajectory,  the .270 wins.
It has both higher SAMMI pressures and a smaller cross section leading
to better  ballistic coefficient.

However, as far as absolute accuracy,  I'd say whatever calibers are available
in the super heavy thick type barrels.  Also the 26 inch barrels caliber options
( 25-06)  could push the trajectory  performance over the shorter 270 barrel.
I dont know which other calibers come in the long barrel except for the 45-70
 

[Mac11700]

Here's what I would do..

First choice for standard caliber..a tack driving 280..It has be a tack driver unless your just wanting to hit a target but not consistently at 1k yards..

Second choice..take a 26" 25-06 and have it bored out with a 1 in 9 or 1 in 9.5 twist in 280..to stabilize the heavier bullets..The heavier bullets will give you a better chance at 1k yards.

The tons of load developement and lots of hours of tuning the rifle..and tweaking all of your BR shooting/loading procedures..countless numbers of rounds down range learning how to dope the wind...even with wind flags if you use them..Consistancy in everything matters at these distances..and being consistant in the bags is extremely difficult with a break action..but can be done..

Just to say you can do this..won't be enough to actually compete at this distance..Too many things against you..but..for informal shooting at this distance is doable...

Mac

[Lazermule]

At extended ranges, what comes out the end of the barrel, and what the barrel is attached to ain't near as important as experience and a capable shooter who can read wind, light, and mirage, and adjust accordingly.
Whatever you choose, the rifle does need to be a consistent performer. 

Having shot 1000 yards successfully, I couldn't agree with the above statement more.  Pulling the trigger is only 1/2 the game, the other 1/2 is reading the conditions.  This is assuming that the rifle being used is capable and consistent (a "shooter").

As far as a Handi caliber for shooting 1000 yards, I would choose either of the offerings in 7mm and probably lean harder toward the one with a longer barrel.  That said, between all of the rifles mentioned (25-06, 270, 7mm-08, 280, 308, 30-06) there wont be enough of a difference on the ballistics tables to really say one will stand out over the other.  In a capable shooters hands they are all good calibers capable of cutting paper at 1000 yards.  The major difference in the cartridges that I just mentioned I think would boil down to recoil, and the 25-06 and the 7mm-08 would be favorable in terms of recoil in my opinion.

And yes, as mentioned in some other posts you also have to consider the stated better BC's in the 7mm bullets and the availability of bullets as well.

In closing, take a look again at the quote I included from Walton.  Although it is fun to talk about which cartridge is better than the other, it really doesn't make as much of a difference as we would like to think.  It's more about rifle consistency and shooter capability than how big of boom it makes or how flat a path it takes to the target if it gets there consistently. 

Anyone remember / see the famous shot made by Fred Bear when he took a Brown bear taking a shot arching his arrow over a big rock?  If that weapon shot flatter, he could have never made that particular shot.  But, given that shot multiple times I bet he could CONSISTENTLY have hit his mark as he was a capable shooter (to say the least) with a consistent weapon.

LM

[Zeke Menuar]

I'd take a look at getting the 24" heavy 243 barrel and reboring to 260 Remington.

The standard 243 might work with the right bullet.

http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html

[Cottonwood]

o.k. I want to make the longest shooting possible handi rifle but what cal should it be give me your advice on this guy's thanks  Harley

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,119506.msg1098396326.html#msg1098396326

[necchi]

It's more about rifle consistency and shooter capability than how big of boom it makes or how flat a path it takes to the target if it gets there consistently. 

I didn't want to quote the whole post, but

You said a ton there Lasermule!! Excelant post!! 50% or more of 1000yrd shots are made by the shooter.

And ya "can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear",, eay?

[LaOtto222]

If you want to the best 1000 yard rifle get a good bolt action. Remington 700 is a good base to start with, but to get top accuracy you need to work over the action and install a top barrel and trigger. Or you could use a Savage as a base and do a lot of the work your self, but it will still be expensive to true up the action, buy a good barrel and a good trigger. That is what it takes to make a gun you can at least compete with. If you want to make a Handi into a 1000 yard gun you can do a decent job, but it will not be a competition gun, but one you can have some fun with. Light recoiling is the way to go if you want a fun gun, Handis are not heavy. I would not go over a Remington 260, a 6MM BR or a 22 BR (with fast twist) to make a good Handi 1000 yard rifle that does not kick the snot out of you. I think you would want to get a quality barrel and make a stub so you get the correct twist rate and a reasonable chance for accuracy with the above mentioned cases. These should put a bullet out there that does not blow in the wind a lot. This is just MY humble opinion. Do as you want, I just had a couple of suggestions. Good Luck and Good Shooting

[Lazermule]

Tune into "shooting gallery" right now on the outdoor channel.  They are talking about 1000 yard shooting right now.

LM

[catman50plus]

For 1k plus yards, be ready to spend a lot of money if you do not do the work yourself, and if you do, then you know what it will get into.

I use to shoot the 30/338, and it will wear you out after a while. The last 1k rifles I shot were in 6.5x284, and they do a very nice job, and Savage even offers one or did for around 1,000 bucks, if you don't want to wait to build or get it built. I would prefer the 6.5x55, or the 260 Rem. over the hotter 6.5, for the longer barrel life. That is just my opinion, hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving!