VOTERS "COLLECTIVELY" AND THEIR KNOWLEDGE OF ISSUES.

[Dee]

My Sunday School class runs the gamut in age from late 30s to mid to late 70s, and from city street employees to VERY wealthy. They pride themselves that they, study strictly out of the KJ Bible. And I must say that over the years I have learned much in regards to scripture and am richly blessed to be a member.
There has always been before class starts each Sunday a short round table discussion of world events with the 15 to 20+ members being both Republican and Democrat, and ALL claiming to be conservative. Yea, I know.
Our leader, when all are talking about the moral decay of our great nation always says: It's still the greatest nation on earth, and the best place to live, which I agree. They have an opinion on all issues as would be expected, but some a rather distorted view of any particular issue occasionally. Now my reason for giving you this info, is to help you realize these men are community and church leaders, so there is no need to attack them, they are merely average Joe Citizen.
Yesterday I brought up the most recently dubbed "Louisiana Purchase" concerning the $100,000,000,000.00 buying of the Lady Senator from Louisiana's vote for health care, and the disguised bill which said that the one hundred billion was for ANY state that had had a natural disaster, but after all the stipulations had been entered into the bill, ONLY LOUISANA QUALIFIED, and the bill was truly a new "Louisiana Purchase" of her vote for the health care bill.
Not one class member indicated that they knew what I was talking about. Not that they didn't understand what I said, but that they had not heard this. I could be mistaken but, I didn't hear any. Now gentlemen! Before we get into our usual sparing this is my point in plain English.
These are good moral men, from many different back grounds, both  skill wise and economically. All claim conservatism, and all believe they are INFORMED VOTERS. They are individuals in both business, and personal lives. But some refuse to step outside of their appointed boxes.
I BELIEVE THIS IS WHY, WE ARE WHERE WE ARE. MANY VOTE PARTY, AND PARTY ONLY, BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW, AND ARE UNWILLING TO MAKE THE EFFORT TO FIND OUT WHAT THEIR CANDIDATE "ACTUALLY" STANDS FOR, AND THEY "HABITUALLY VOTE" LESSOR OF TWO EVILS, ALONG THESE PARTY LINES.
This is a fairly good cross section of your average voter, though small in number, and an example of the mentality, of party first. It is both amazing, and sad. I will also say that MOST, not all, but MOST of the farmers are DIE HARD Democrats, because of the farm subsidies the Democrats support more strongly, and one of them would vote for a billy goat if he was a Democrat. Down here, he would be called a "Yellow Dog Democrat".

[Redtail1949]

Most people are whatever in the beginning because of their parents...then they might change once they start looking around. And if you want the truth most people being what they are had their beginnings in the civil war. "Black Republicans" representing Lincoln and the North so to speak and the Democrats in the South. I know much has changed but people do not understand the lingering effects of the Civil War and the set in concrete views from that point on.

Most people struggling along may not have the access you and i have. i know that is hard to see but many do not and they are working two jobs and just do not have the time we do to play around arguing this or that. they are working or sleeping. we in the most cases are not.

however we now have in america the most informed electorate in history many do stick with what they were taught. my father is rolling over in his grave knowing i went and voted for a republican. if he were alive he would still be hollerin at me. lol... now i pride myself in being a so called independent but i am more rep than dem. we all become much more conservative as we grow in age and experiance. the only viable party that leans that way is the Rep. now more than ever we find that one that single one issue and make our selections based on that anm nothing else matters. i think thats wrong. you will never find that perfect candidate ever. and if by a miracle he agress 100% with you he will probably get only 1 vote yours..

[SHOOTALL]

Dee , I see your point and agree . It will be hard for avg. joe voter to see and know every law/person being voted on . There has always been a bit of trust involved . The biggest mistake voters have made is the lack of effort to hold politicans to being truthful. The State leaders have no intrest in the federal reps . Thus with no one holding them accountable and state govt. dealing or being lead by them our fed govt has taken us for a ride in many cases .

[alsaqr]

I BELIEVE THIS IS WHY, WE ARE WHERE WE ARE. MANY VOTE PARTY, AND PARTY ONLY, BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW, AND ARE UNWILLING TO MAKE THE EFFORT TO FIND OUT WHAT THEIR CANDIDATE "ACTUALLY" STANDS FOR, AND THEY "HABITUALLY VOTE" LESSOR OF TWO EVILS, ALONG THESE PARTY LINES.

Bingo!!!! 

Studies have shown that over one third of US adults do not have sense enough to wash their hands after using a public toilet:  How can such people be expected to make informed decisions at the voting booth?   

[SHOOTALL]

The framers of our system realized this ! Not "all" were allowed to vote !

[45-70.gov]

i  think a  big part  of the problem  is  no attention  to the primaries

as  much  as i hate  democrats....a democrat  associate  of  mine
pointed  out  he  had  2...thats  two  chances to vote  against  OBAMA

had  i been  a republican  rather  than  a libertaian
i  could  have  voted  against  mccain.......at least  once

and  maybe  enough  like  me  could  have  some one  other than  mccain vs  obama

[torpedoman]

taken as a group if course, Never underestimate the stupidity of the american voters.

[cwall]

Stimulus money at work for its intended purpose - buying votes.

[Squib]

as a disabled vet that got out of the military about a year before the elections (first time voting so I paid attention and read some books from both cons and libs) I felt pulled both ways (I wasn't a die-hard conservative yet)

anyways, Obama says a lot of what people want to hear (pertaining to feeling good, security, emotional ewhy-gooey-ness) and he's gonna fix healthcare and keep costs down, no one will be uninsured, the government will protect you... yet he tried to get the va the latitude to refuse to pay for treatment of COMBAT RELATED INJURIES if the vet in question has insurance!!!  now I think that in the long run the idea would be to get that huge group of people (sadly, lots of people don't walk away from uncle sam without a limp) to just forgo coverage and hurt the insurance industry//strengthen the big government takeover of healthcare but it's still sick.  I'm just a pawn to the progressive movement, just an individual and they don't care one bit for individualism, but I do-- I care very much about myself and can't imagine paying high premiums to get coverage for medical conditions caused by a bomb-blast to my left side.  When my bomb-blasted eyes quit on me and I have to get cataracts surgery or attempted retinal reattachment down the road, I should pay for that because I owe my country???  It's the same thing with eugenics/euthanasia/welfare... they want you to allow social engineering, then they can play god and keep you going or put you down.  Ever wonder why the Democrats want abortion and welfare.. it would seem very conflicting, and it is... unless you see the bigger picture.  How can we feed every hungry mouth, every lazy person that doesn't want to work, people who aren't "entitled" to life or medical care, every (sorry if this offends you) baby born with severe birth defects when we know that kid ain't gonna last more than a few years before that congenital defect takes them down (and millions of dollars in the process)?  How can we also say that it's okay to kill an unborn child out of convenience (not for health problems, that would make sense fiscally and in a pure rational sense-cut your loose ends), to keep someone in prison for years but not "technically" take that persons life (once again, do it quick and clean).... it's to give the government the ultimate authority... validation or termination of life.  People throw it away for a little stimulous check of $250 though. 

add to this the gun issue, and self-defense....      it's wrong to kill criminals in self-defense or by electric chair, but it's okay to kill babies when the mother isn't having health complications (well, I wouldn't want to have a rape baby but the other reasons seem meager at best)..... or those of us who have the ability to work (generally) are held to a standard of self-reliance and responsibility but if someone has a minority card to play (race, single-mother for 18 yrs, disability) then that person doesn't have to work while the rest of us pay taxes to support that person...

add it all up and it's pretty disgusting, and the constant tug of war is extremely costly in a monetary sense... it's not about the left actually accomplishing all those extremely conflicting single goals/issues at once, it's about slowly breaking the establishment to replace it with something else (totalitarianism)


I have a right to arm myself because no one in this world cares about me but me (and I'm a former marine   ), I'm not entitled to anything, including life and medical care at someone else's expense..   I'm a man and I'll provide for myself because that's the only way it's ever gonna work out.  I know I am mortal and don't fear death... I fear a life wasted (mine).  That's why I'm a conservative!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by the way, all that crap about education and healthcare...     minority preference allows them to get 51% of medical school openings and lots of scholarships, yet everyone complains about the price of education, teachers don't necessarily rack up rediculous college bills but doctors do, and I don't want a stupid guy with no ambition getting through 12+ yrs of school and cutting on me, and I don't want him having a dumb professor in college to produce dumb graduates.... the things that cost are the ones that need to (barring government interference)


dee... how does a man not lose his mind watching this stuff happen for a few decades?

[Dee]

Squib, you do what you have done. You educate yourself, and even when everyone around you is settling for less, you don't.
It's like the majority of voters, whom justify voting the lessor of two evils, and blame me, and folks like me, when they get MUCH LESS. They are by voting the lessor of, COMPROMISING OFF, more of their freedoms, and MINE also. There is nothing I can do about their willingness to trade Freedoms for a few concessions, but I don't have to like it.
If a candidate is not willing to stand 100% behind the Constitution, and Bill of Rights, then I will not support him. That's 100%, not 60, not 70, and not 90%. I take the same stand the founding fathers took. All or nothing. Freedom is laying on your front porch bleeding out after a good fight, rather than being "herded off" to support the king, or government. But that's just me. Everyone else can give their watch to the mugger, for safe passage if they want to.

Anyone whom will trade FREEDOM for a little Security, deserves NEITHER. Ben Franklin.
He read my mail, before it was written.

[SHOOTALL]

Dee the problem is some are trading for those that wish not to make the trade . Guess its time to count powder and bullets ?

[Squib]

I need to just win the lottery, build a bunker like Burt from the movie Tremors, and load that bunker up, like he did

graboids,... ha- I'd be ready for the UN!


also get a new car... mine's rusty

[teamnelson]

Dee, I was once at a church where if there were 2 people there were 3 opinions 

To understand the artificial complexity of the issues today is frankly more than the average man should be expected to know. I think the complexity is specifically engineered to keep the little guy out of the conversation. So its easier to stick with the crowd you know, and vote for your pet subsidies. Fortunately there are some good folks on here that don't settle.

[SHOOTALL]

sorta like the doc writing a percription to the drug store

[ms]

You should show some of Alex jones dvd.

[KB21]

Squib, you do what you have done. You educate yourself, and even when everyone around you is settling for less, you don't.
It's like the majority of voters, whom justify voting the lessor of two evils, and blame me, and folks like me, when they get MUCH LESS. They are by voting the lessor of, COMPROMISING OFF, more of their freedoms, and MINE also. There is nothing I can do about their willingness to trade Freedoms for a few concessions, but I don't have to like it.
If a candidate is not willing to stand 100% behind the Constitution, and Bill of Rights, then I will not support him. That's 100%, not 60, not 70, and not 90%. I take the same stand the founding fathers took. All or nothing. Freedom is laying on your front porch bleeding out after a good fight, rather than being "herded off" to support the king, or government. But that's just me. Everyone else can give their watch to the mugger, for safe passage if they want to.

Anyone whom will trade FREEDOM for a little Security, deserves NEITHER. Ben Franklin.
He read my mail, before it was written.

Great post!  I will be interesting to see if more and more people start taking this approach.  Maybe we could see the rise of a third, Constitutional Conservative party.

[Squib]

Allan Keyes ran for president in the last race, as the candidate for the constitution party....

I've gotta love a guy that is so unyieldingly right wing (eloquently spoken, but brutally honest) that he scares off supposed conservatives
supposedly his fundemental political ideals are totally derived from the constitution, and his religious views guide his moral compass enough that he's not really an all-or-nothing republican... it seems he's not since he won't play ball.  He's more man than politician, I doubt it'll ever get him higher than he's been before (un ambassador was the highest post he held to my recollection) but he still takes the high road.

I like the libertarian government principles BUT if there are no rules then it's not hard to make them, no structure to people's lives means no cohesion... I don't know that I can truly support that as a federal attitude.  I have nothing against it but it's not anything that gets me fired up.

If the GOP would actually go the big-tent that I keep hearing about they might actually gain some ground.  Here's an example: would you rather sit next to a guy at a restaurant/bus/plane/whatever that is wearing a pink pistols shirt/pin/hat or a guy with an obama/blue jackass/pelosi shirt/pin/hat???  I'd be sitting next to the gay gun guy before I'd sit with a straight liberal, that's not me making fun of gay people .. I'm saying that my own personal prejudice aside (from my conservative/hetero viewpoint) I'd view him as more man/american/decent and choose to sit at that open seat then sit by the other guy.  The GOP needs to stop alienating people that don't fit a criterion checklist.  I could go on about super-pious Muslims, Immigrant Hispanics, etcetera... just because they're not classical "all-american" doesn't mean that they aren't good quality citizens.. and not taking them in and making them feel welcome just leaves them as an untapped resource for the other side.  Thankfully we have the NRA to do that for us on the 2nd Amendment issues but they can't always bail us out.

[Squib]

speaking of mexican immigrants,... I toke a few guys out (yes they were legal/citizens, don't flip) and for first time shooters they were really impressing me.. I suppose that growing up in a crappy place that outlaws any kind of personal independence, self-reliance, manhood, etcetera really put a desire to achieve in them, and they think guns and hunting are cool past-times

they kept asking me to show them where to hunt/take them hunting... made me wish I wasn't almost poor (not the only reason I wish I had money)
point is they weren't american born, don't speak english well, look different than me, blah blah blah but I took them out and they loved it, and even picked up the basic pistol handling techniques (the kid shot how I showed him, cocked every revolver shot and hit really well at about fifteen yds, the uncle wouldn't do it no matter how much I insisted-not because he couldn't handle recoil but because he didn't like letting up on his grip--the guy was worried about tactics his first time)

try it out, open up to diffent people and you'll see it isn't hard to win them over... turn that liberal hug a stranger crap around on them!!!! 

[hunt-m-up]

This starts at home. I grew up with a mother who sat on a election boards and a father who held a variety of local offices. They were both raised during the depression and staunch democrats, mainly due to being farmers. Their views otherwise were quite conservative. The key was they taught their six kids to pay attention and vote because it would have an impact on them in the future. Look around you and see how many parents even talk to their children, let alone discuss political issues. The one thing some of them do understand is to vote the "gravy train" to keep the checks coming in. I'm pretty sure my 11 year old is sharper than 50% of the people who helped turn this last presidential election. 

[teamnelson]

hunt-m-up, excellent post! On NPR this morning (don't shoot me) they interviewed a 17yo who has a bigscreen TV, xbox, wii & ps3, laptop, wifi, 4 guitars, amp, cellphone, ipod ... he doesn't have his driver's license or a job, and seldom leaves his room. His single mom immigrated from Mexico to the US, drives him everywhere he wants to go. How do you suppose he will vote when he turns 18?

[SHOOTALL]

e lec tron ic aly

[Squib]

its strange how republicans are supposed to be racist anti-hispanic slavers who don't want any immigration except as gardners, yet mexicans come over here to work their a$$es off for a decade or two and do well for themselves and their large catholic families

they turn into republicans-work hard, raise a family, go to church (if they are just not given a cold shoulder by white people and introduced to guns they're about guaranteed to side with us)

I wonder, how many former mexicans that HAVE made it through hard work and ambition really appreciate the illegals not paying taxes and complaining about racism

Remember Joe the plumber, he represented that and look how bad the media got on him
Sarah Palin, a good looking woman who didn't sleep her way to the top, doesn't play the damsel in distress and hunts, had a baby that they KNEW was going to be born with major problems and doesn't condone abortion

That's why the media always focuses on celebrities, nasty disgusting people who are chaotic and immoral.  They get those people to look up to and we wonder why kids are screwed up.  What happened to John Wayne, G.I. Joe, He-Man (he  quietly snuck away to perform great works and took no credit for what he did, magical powers or not), how did they get replaced by MICHAEL JACKSON

[slim rem 7]

 i just wish young voters i talked to ,,held the constitution as the backbone of this democracy..
 i don t think they do.. jmo slim..

[gypsyman]

Dee, one of your statements, right in the middle of your post was,these men hadn't heard about the issue of the ''new Louisana purchase''. No doubt they had heard about it, they just didn't want to believe it, or couldn't comprehend it. Some people can hear something, but that's not what gets registered in the brain. Really pretty sad, as with what's going on in this country, so many people are still asleep at the wheel. The only thing that matters is who won a football game,what Hollywood celebrity did what, or how often they can get to the local bar or tavern. gypsyman

[Squib]

all you gotta do is make a few music videos, get a sex change, and molest LOTS of kids and you're ready to be a star

if that's what it takes, america is gonna be a nebula in a few decades