Horse or Cow manure, one better than the other?

[bearmgc]

2 ranchers near me, one says take a load of horse manure, the other, cow manure. Both are from last early summer. I want to spread it on the vegetable garden area now and let the snow soak it in before tilling and planting in late May. Is one better than the other? Would doing this enrich the soil better than just mixing it in come spring? Winter here is almost 5 months long.

[Siskiyou]

We used a lot of manure on our gardens, we experienced more weeds after using horse manure.

[Graybeard]

Weeds from manure are pretty much a given if you don't compost it and even then might happen. Whether one is better than the other or has more or less weed seeds depends really on what they were fed. Next time it might be cow manure with more seeds.

If offered free take both. If you gotta pay then get the cheapest. I've used both and can see no benefit to one over the other.

[torpedoman]

Weed seeds do not make it thru a cow but they are present in horse manure

[bearmgc]

Thanks! Oh its all free. Just gotta shovel it from the pile into the truck. I've used horse manure before on flower gardens, and it seemed to do well. Thinking about it, there might have been a bit more weeds, but not bad. I'll throw some into my new composter too. I plan to enlarge the vegetable garden another 1/3, and add 2 apricot trees this spring.

[Graybeard]

Weed seeds do not make it thru a cow but they are present in horse manure

Sorry to say I just don't buy that story. I've used too much of it with seeds still viable to fall for it.

[Arier Blut]

I am reading an interesting book on survival gardening. http://www.amazon.com/Gardening-When-Counts-Growing-Mother/dp/086571553X The author brings up a good point on the quality of manure. Such as horse grazing on alfalfa will have a better quality manure than one feeding on coastal hay.

                         N    P     K
Cow                 12  2.6  14
Dry stack cow    9  1.8  16
Horse                9  2.6  13
Dry stack horse 6  1.8  15

Either one is good, horse is larger so it will break down over a longer time. Of coarse cow is finer so it will put nutrients into the soil faster. It would look like cow would be the way to go. But it looses 25% of it's nitrogen to the air if left on top. So if you do not till in they are about equal on the npk. Horses will selectively feed on higher protein so there will be more nutrients in their manure.

I would put down the horse for over winter and the cow when you are able to till it under in the spring.

[Dixie Dude]

I've used cow manure before and it was full of weed seeds.  I got some chicken from Auburn University poultry farm, all raised inside, no weeds.  Guy who worked there cleaned out the chicken houses and sold the manure for $50 a pickup load delivered.  He backed up to my garden and unloaded it.  I had to spread it and till it in.  Not a bad price since he had to bring it about 15 miles away.  Arier do you know the composition of chicken? 

[SHOOTALL]

I agree with GB about cow manure and I have cows and weeds .

[Swampman]

Horse does have a rep for weeds.  Be careful with chicken it's very hot.

[Dee]

I would go with the cow crap. It passes thru more stomachs (four I believe as oppose to the horse with one), and is better digested than horse crap. Horse crap is usually hotter depending a lot on diet and CAN, cause plants to mature faster without producing fruit or veggies.

[hunt-m-up]

You guys are all talking crap...

[Dee]

Yep, we are. And your standing in it.

[Graybeard]

I just wish I had a regular source of it even if I had to buy it. Oh well lots of leaves fall from the trees here on my land so I can use all of them we are willing to rake and haul. Today we put four bucket loads of them from my JD tractor in next year's new garden area.

Today's leaves were from willow oaks in the back yard. I'm sure there are another two or three bucket loads at least left to be raked under those two trees. I like the small size of the willow oak leaves they tend to blow around less than larger leaves and since it's way too muddy for now to till them under it will be awhile before that gets done.

[Dee]

I've got to put a new bed in my trailer before I can go to a friends barn with a front end loader and a load of cow crap.

[highwayman]

hey swampman, i can get bags of chicken manure compost in a bag, how hot is this stuff and how would you use it???

[Swampman]

If it's composted then it may be ok.  I just remember we had to be careful with it on the farm so as not to burn our plants.

[hunt-m-up]

Yep, we are. And your standing in it.

Over my boot tops for sure...story of my life
Most chicken/turkey manure around here is piled in the fall and left until spring to mellow before being spread, I would still be cautious and not put it on at the rate you would other stuff. I'm with Graybeard's method of putting it out now for next year's garden, regardless of what you use.

[bilmac]

Aw Greybeard lives in a different world talking about tilling in December. I tried to drive a steel post the other day, and my post driver bounced off the post like I was trying to drive it through a piece of granite.

I notice I get weeds with whatever form of manure I use but theoretically most shouldn't be able to make it through a cow as thoroughly as they digest with multi-stomachs. I think a lot of the weeds come from storage of the manure after it is removed from the corrals. These places are usually very weedy.

[ironglow]

From my experience;
   Poultry manure is very strong fresh and can burn crops, but if honestly composted is quite good. Horse manure carries more weed seeds, in fact seeds of all types than cow manure. Still, all should be composted.
   My veterinary friend tells me the difference between cow and horse manure reflects the difference between cows and horses.  A horse's digestive system cannot digest seeds very well, roughage goes through too fast. A cow, being a ruminant with 4 stomachs..regurgitating and reprocessing their food, do digest most seeds. Dr Pollock is a well respected veterinarian around here, so it sounds logical to me.
     ..Should I say, "it passes the smell test"?   ....unlike our US Congress....

[ironglow]

  perhaps a small garden spot can be helped even if manure with many weed seeds has already been spread upon it. I am told that if you cover the area with black plastic, then when the warm, sunny days come along, some of the seeds will be killed off by the heat generated.

[Graybeard]

Black plastic has never worked well for me. Clear should at least in theory work better. It will allow light thru to germinate the seeds but if the plastic keeps out water the newly sprouted seeds should die quickly. Heck that's the theory as I've read it at least.

Aw Greybeard lives in a different world talking about tilling in December.

Actually around here there is no reason you can't till any month of the year other than it might be too danged muddy to do so. Today we're expected to make 60 for the third day in a row. I'll likely try to get some more leaves on the new garden area for next year and maybe get them and what I put on yesterday spread. Rain is on the way tomorrow and is to last thru the night with anywhere from one to two inches falling they say so it ain't gonna get tilled again this month tho as I recall it was earlier this month I did the first tilling. I'll catch a warm day in January or February and do it most likely if it dries up enough. We have temps in the 50s and occasionally even reaching 60 all thru the winter from time to time. It might be only one day or might be two or three in a row like now and might be rainy but there are no months here where the high doesn't reach into the 50s at least a day or two.

[SHOOTALL]

Cows can be fed a lower quality hay which contains more seed , weed and mold so it stands to reason you get more weeds from it .

[ironglow]

Black plastic has never worked well for me. Clear should at least in theory work better. It will allow light thru to germinate the seeds but if the plastic keeps out water the newly sprouted seeds should die quickly. Heck that's the theory as I've read it at least.

Aw Greybeard lives in a different world talking about tilling in December.

Actually around here there is no reason you can't till any month of the year other than it might be too danged muddy to do so. Today we're expected to make 60 for the third day in a row. I'll likely try to get some more leaves on the new garden area for next year and maybe get them and what I put on yesterday spread. Rain is on the way tomorrow and is to last thru the night with anywhere from one to two inches falling they say so it ain't gonna get tilled again this month tho as I recall it was earlier this month I did the first tilling. I'll catch a warm day in January or February and do it most likely if it dries up enough. We have temps in the 50s and occasionally even reaching 60 all thru the winter from time to time. It might be only one day or might be two or three in a row like now and might be rainy but there are no months here where the high doesn't reach into the 50s at least a day or two.

   GB;
   I didn't explain myself fully..my fault. I meant to cover the ground solidly with black plastic BEFORE planting, so the generated heat will kill any seeds. Remove it of course, before tilling and/or planting. Just my $.02

[Graybeard]

Again I've tried it, just never had it work for me.

[Spanky]

I know it's OT but what about pig manure? I have 10 pigs so manure is plentiful. I don't know if it's important or not but my pigs eat grain, sweet feed and vegetables.



Spanky

[Graybeard]

Dunno about pigs. I know you are not supposed to use dog or cat manure. I've used only cow, horse and goat manure so far. All seemed to work fine. Chicken manure is good stuff if available but kinda hot so should be composted or put on a long time before you plant not on things already planted. Hog manure tho I have no clue about.

[billy_56081]

I have a pretty good source of Turkey manure, it is hard to beat, no weed seed and lots of nitrogen. It is very fine and mixes well with the soil.

[hunt-m-up]

I know it's OT but what about pig manure? I have 10 pigs so manure is plentiful. I don't know if it's important or not but my pigs eat grain, sweet feed and vegetables.



Spanky

Hog manure is usually pretty potent, but that's confinement waste. It sounds like you would be in good shape with yours, especially if you bed them with straw, but I would put it on at a lesser rate.

[ironglow]

As GB said, chicken manureis good ..but fresh, can be HOT. As a kid I had to help clean the neighbor's chicken houses just to get the manure. One year, being pressed for need, we used fresh chicken manure (the garden acreage was VERY important toward our yearly food supply)... we had awfully scabby potatoes that year. We always laid it to the fresh manure.
   I raised rabbits for years and considered rabbit manure a really good stuff, fresh or composted. GB has a good thing going with goat manure..sheep good also.