223 Questions........

[Jon in TN]

I've been looking for a 243 youth for my son's first deer gun and a friend of mine offered me a cannot refuse deal on a 223. It may or may not have a bull barrel. How do you tell? Second, I really didn't want him using nothing lighter than a 243 for deer and from what I've researched most are using 60+ grain  ammo for whitetail. How well does your guns shoot that large grain bullet?

I'm definitely going to get the stock changed, but should I look for a barrel trade/purchase as well for deer hunting?

[quickdtoo]

Welcome Jon! Muzzle diameters pretty much will tell you what contour the barrel is, as well as length if it's a Superlight which are only 20" long compared to 22" standard and bull or 24" bull barrels, bull barrels will be ~.800", those diameters are listed in the FAQs and Help sticky, a good place to spend lots of time reading. 

The twist rate of the barrel will tell you what weight bullets to shoot, the older 1:12" won't likely shoot anything heavier than 55g with the exception of bullets that are short for their weight like the 60gr Nosler Partition or 64gr Win PP, 1:9" barrels will shoot the heavier bullets fine up to 70gr or so, the only way to know the twist is check it per the info listed below the twist rate chart in the FAQs.

Tim

[necchi]

Another welcome,
 I have the 1-12 bull, and because that twist will only shoot the light bullets, I personaly wouldn't use that gun for deer. However they've been using the 223 in Wisc. for years and just allowed them here in Minn last year. And these are big northern deer.
 If you have the 1-9 that will shoot the 70+ bullets, AND, you can teach the boy too shoot accurately, a round at 70grns in the heart/lung will do the job. You can really get those 223's moving a bullet fast.
 Consider the fact the low recoil of the 223 will be a real advantage for a young shooter, and a couple boxes of shells for practice, it could turn into a real good trainer and oppertunity.
 You can always add another barrel from the forum members here, have a new one factory mounted, sell or trade the existing barrel here,,if the price is right ya can't go wrong,,

[Cottonwood]

I will also say welcome to GBO Jon, even though I can not answer your question.

[PeterCartwright]

Seems like anytime the .223 Remington and deer hunting topics come together, fireworks begin.  I'll only relate my limited experience with this topic.  I matched a Youth Model Superlite .223 Handi with a small 4X scope a couple years ago.  I wanted a short length of pull/low recoil rifle to use with kids who were particularly recoil sensitive.  So far, none of the kids who've used the gun have managed to pull the trigger while hunting.  However, before I began providing the gun to kids, I used it myself for that purpose.  I loaded Barnes 53 gr. (all copper) bullets over 25 gr. of H4895.  The load printed well in my (9" twist) rifle.  I ultimately shot an average sized doe from 50 yards or so through heart/lungs.  The performance (in terms of internal tissue destruction) was very impressive, though the round only managed to break the skin on the far side of the animal (i.e. no blood trail).  Put another way, the "clockwork" of the deer was completely trashed.  The deer did a tiny, circular dance and dropped dead.  In my view, modern .224 projectiles intended for use on deer enable cartridges like the .223 Remington to perform well, so long as people respect their limitations.  I don't think I'd be comfortable with quartering shots, but others may have a different view.

If I had it to do over again, I think I'd probably buy the standard weight barrel.  The Superlite does fine for normal hunting purposes, but it certainly heats up in a HURRY on the range.  Also, I think I'll probably bump up to the 62 gr. Barnes next time for a bit of added performance.  As noted in some earlier posts, remember that while recoil is nil,  the report of the tiny .223 Remington cartridge is BRUTAL!  Make sure adequate hearing protection is available for shooters/mentors.

PC

[Jon in TN]

Thanks for the quick replies and the big welcome!

First, I believe my gun is the 1 to 12". The serial # indicates that was built in '05 and it is 22", but there's no marking to indicate whether it is the bull or not. On the lower side of the barrel, there is a "831" etched. But I can't find anything to indicate what that means. It could be the inspection #?

Second, I've read allot about the 60 grain Nosler (Federal P223Q) and the Winchester 64 grain (X223R2) taking good care of the animal on short range hunting like we have here in East TN. So I was wondering if anyone had used them in the Handi and how the accuracy was in 50 to 100 yard range? (Most of our shots would be 50 or less, but you never know!) At $30.00 a box, I don't want to blow if you guys know they won't work or tumble.... And what 55 grain load would you recomend?

Third, Until my son gets comfortable with a gun. He will not be shooting at deer with it or any other rifle!

When I bought this little gun, I never realized all the options you have with them.. No wonder you guys are big fans!

Jon

[necchi]

Check this link to find how to measure twist rate and LOT'S of other stuff;

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,26264.0.html

A bull barrel is big, outside diameter on mine at the muzzle is .800. Standard contour is just that, a pronounced taper from the front of the chamber to the muzzle.
The scribed #'s on the barrel lug are put there at the factory and are the same as the last 3 digits of the serial # on the frame it was fitted too. ( it's a way to tell if the barrel was factory fitted ).
 Can't help ya with the bullets, I'm still experimenting myself, Knowing the twist rate for sure is important if you want to save money on shells.

So ya did buy it ?? Hee-heeee  ,,it becomes a fever man,, these things are fun!!!

[necchi]

 the report of the tiny .223 Remington cartridge is BRUTAL!  Make sure adequate hearing protection is available for shooters/mentors.

When I got mine, the boy and I went to the range, when we got around to the .223 I was shooting first, and I saw Dust back off about 10-15 feet, I asked "what's up?", he replied, "I don't like the sound of it!".

p.s. he got over it, once we got moa he has no trouble shooting it, he usually has a grin too.

[Jon in TN]

Thanks for the help! I just checked my barrel and it is a 9 to 1, so I should be able to shoot the mid-sixty bullets without a problem. This just goes to show, you never know the twist unless you check it yourself!

[TxGun]

Always lots of small (80-100 lb) Hill Country deer killed in Texas every year with the 5.56/.223. Shot placement, always critical, becomes more critical with the smaller calibers. The .223 is adequate for the patient hunter who is a good shot. Use a proper bullet (also critical), like the ones quickdtoo recommends, and you'll be OK. Now for larger deer, like those found in S. Texas (120-220+ lbs.), I couldn't recommend the .223. Many landowners down there will not allow it and make the .243 (and sometimes larger) the minimum on their ranches.    

[FLNT4EVR]

If your son can shoot , the .223 with the 60grn  Nosler partition or the 64 grn Winchester PP should do just fine.  Just remind him of the importance of shot placement.

[Spanky]

I've dropped deer in their tracks with my 22 Hornet so I'm pretty sure a 223 will do the trick.
Don't start flaming me either... I've heard it all before.



Spanky

[Jon in TN]

If your son can shoot , the .223 with the 60grn  Nosler partition or the 64 grn Winchester PP should do just fine.  Just remind him of the importance of shot placement.

He's not going in the woods until he has earned that right with that gun....

[jeepmann1948]

Lots of Texas Whitetails fall to 22 hornets as well as other 22 centerfires .  Operation Orphans in Mason Texas has hosted thousands of kids in the last 47 years and they have used only small caliber light recoiling rifles, with the 222 and 243 the most used.The 222 will drop a deer just as good a a large caliber firearm with proper shot placement.As you know the 223 and 222 are very close to being the same.

[Spanky]

He's not going in the woods until he has earned that right with that gun....

Good on ya Dad.
The kid's off to a good start.



Spanky

[Spanky]

Lots of Texas Whitetails fall to 22 hornets as well as other 22 centerfires .  Operation Orphans in Mason Texas has hosted thousands of kids in the last 47 years and they have used only small caliber light recoiling rifles, with the 222 and 243 the most used.The 222 will drop a deer just as good a a large caliber firearm with proper shot placement.As you know the 223 and 222 are very close to being the same.

What is "Operation Orpans"?


Spanky

[jmayton]

Here is a bullet I pulled out of a cull spike I shot this past weekend.  It is a 55gr Sierra GameKing SBT fired out of a 16" Colt M4.  I've been using this load for pigs in two rifles (the Colt and a 1:12 twist standard Handi Rifle) for quite some time now.  I usually don't get to recover the bullets, but this one cooperated nicely.  On the left is the 55gr Sierra and on the right is a 150gr .30 GameKing that I use in my 30-06.  The bullet entered the left shoulder cut the heart in half and lodged itself underneath the opposite shoulder.  The .223 will kill deer, but the shot must be placed right and don't expect much of a blood trail.

[necchi]

Great photo! Thanks for sharing!