Author Topic: I was curious. (Read 2753 times)

thelionspaw · « **on:** November 28, 2009, 05:23:45 AM »

I wondered where the expression, "Fire in the hole" came from while discharging a cannon because it didn't seem to comfortably fit the occasion. I remembered it being used by dynamiters. So I googled it. In retrospect; what else would/could we say? Do any of us say anything different?

http://www.word-detective.com/2008/10/10/fire-in-the-hole/

If the shoe fits.....wear it!

gulfcoastblackpowder · « **Reply #1 on:** November 28, 2009, 05:52:54 AM »

The point of yelling "fire in the hole" is not to let you know that you're about to touch off a gun, but to let everyone around know in no uncertain terms that they need to be aware, cover their ears if necessary, etc. By using a phrase that logically fits and is almost universally understood, this purpose is acheived. It may not be HC/PC to your purpose, but I can't think of anything that would work as well, save for a master gunner calling "fire", which implies an immediate ignition as it's instructions to the crew, and therefore doesn't serve the same purpose of announcing to an audience. That said, if you don't have an audience, just shoot the thing.

BoomLover · « **Reply #2 on:** November 28, 2009, 06:42:39 AM »

....and when you light the fuse of a cannon or mortar, because "fire" in the form of the sparking lit fuse is "travelling down the hole" to ignite the powder. In today's world, that almost exclusively means firing black powder guns or in a mining context. While I was mining, that was the phrase we used after everyone was clear of the tunnel opening, just before blasting. I agree that it is overused in our daily language, however, we sure do pay attention when we hear those words on the "line" while at a "Shoot"! This applys when one is about to pull the lanyard, also.

gulfcoastblackpowder · « **Reply #3 on:** November 28, 2009, 01:48:11 PM »

I'm not really sure where people hear it so much in daily vernacular. I know of only one context in which it's used, and it kind of applies, butt (spelling intentional) it's usually only around men.

Artilleryman · « **Reply #4 on:** November 28, 2009, 02:41:03 PM »

"Fire in the hole" is too much of a mining term for me. I use the following command in a loud voice: 1st South Carolina Ready!, (pause so that people around can take notice) Fire! At this command the lanyard is pulled and the gun fires instantly. Sometimes it is more appropriate to annouce "Gun Number 1 (2,3,4...) Ready! pause Fire!

Just my 2 cents worth.

KABAR2 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 28, 2009, 02:58:33 PM »

when I re-enacted the American Revolution the term was never used on crew served weapons, not even a small crew like a swivel gun.

I can see it's usefulness at a non historical shoot with mixed guns but if it is a crew served gun that is well drilled they should stick to the drill

they are used to.

subdjoe · « **Reply #6 on:** November 28, 2009, 04:27:37 PM »

Quote from: Artilleryman on November 28, 2009, 02:41:03 PM

"Fire in the hole" is too much of a mining term for me. I use the following command in a loud voice: 1st South Carolina Ready!, (pause so that people around can take notice) Fire! At this command the lanyard is pulled and the gun fires instantly. Sometimes it is more appropriate to annouce "Gun Number 1 (2,3,4...) Ready! pause Fire!

Just my 2 cents worth.

Ours is similar, READY! CLEAR FRONT! (at which point the cannoneers step away from the gun, lean out, and cover the near ear, and scan their quadrant for safety) when the cannoneers answer back with CLEAR! then (GUN NAME) FIRE!

One thing I do when running drills by detail & without cartridge, is to sometimes give the command FIRE without the READY, CLEAR FRONT to make sure that people know to NOT fire if not all the steps have been done. Anyone on my gun can call off a shot at anytime.

We had one interesting happening. We had a small grass fire in front of one of the guns (we were on a crest of a hill, so it was down slope. We had just done a fire by piece from the right, and were in the process of reloading for a volley. Someone yelled FIRE and we started looking around to see who was loaded and trying to fire,, and yeling CEASE FIRE. "No! FIRE!" THE GRASS IS ON FIRE. We then had a meeting and decided that "GRASS!" would be the call fo ra grass fire.

RocklockI · « **Reply #7 on:** November 28, 2009, 05:32:11 PM »

A loud ."Ready ! ....Fire!" did very well at the Montana Cannoneer convention shoot .

Not a bunch of macho calls of unknown origin . I dislike the term 'fire in..." so much I cannt even finish the term. 3-2-1 ! Anything but fire in the hole !

Unless of course you were to yell it as you chuck a grenade into a Veitnamese spider hole . wait till it goes off then chuck one more for good luck .....IF YOU do this stuff YOU CAN SAY anything you like ....

Then down goes the tunnel rat ......good luck chuck .

But not ReadyFire! like I did . I was bad and missed the pre blow meetting where it was explianed ..
"Ready ,(one thousand , two one thousand) , FIRE ! Then there is a couple more secs delay while the fuse /Quill ,whatever burns and then BAMMO !

If you do it the way one would do it , if one had missed the preboom meeting ,one MAY say READYFIREBOOM !!!!! like I did .

It seems that Mr . Kunze who's trailer was mere feet away took exception to my ...style ?

He crawled out from underneith his trailer , kinda low crawling on his back ...and feet first !

I'm thinking damn that's clever ! and quick too !

"What are ya doing down there Tracy ?" I asked IIRC and I do ,He mumbbled something in a ...not too happy tone / it was a "30 sec. saftey meeting"

Something about him having near split his skull on the frame under his trailer when my over loaded Parrott gun went off sooner than he thought .

I never did figure out what he was doing under there but ....that was not the point . It seems I startled him somewhat . Then he had a fit and banged his head .....so he was looking for someone to blame .

Well after low crawling upside down and backwards on His toes His finger tips and His BUTT slowin him down he was just looking for trouble .

So I appologized ...(for nothing) and his scar is hardly noticable today .

So to sum it up ...I'd rather split Tracys skull than yell "Fire in ..."

Gary

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #8 on:** November 28, 2009, 06:39:39 PM »

Thanks guys! For once we don't have to be the bad guys and insist that correct words are important. As Gary, Artilleryman and so many others have said, Ready.......................................FIRE!! works very well at shoots and after a couple shots the spectators pay attention after Ready is called out. This very simple Military command is a two-part one. Ready is the Prepatory Command and FIRE!! the Command of Execution. My late father-in-law was a hard rock miner, gold, silver and uranium for years, so I know the importance of the traditional warning shout: Fire in the Hole!! He was a powder man.

Quote from: RocklockI on November 28, 2009, 05:32:11 PM

A loud ."Ready ! ....Fire!" did very well at the Montana Cannoneer convention shoot .
If you do it the way one would do it , if one had missed the preboom meeting ,one MAY say READYFIREBOOM !!!!! like I did .

It seems that Mr . Kunze who's trailer was mere feet away took exception to my ...style ?

"What are ya doing down there Tracy ?" I asked IIRC and I do ,He mumbbled something in a ...not too happy tone / it was a "30 sec. saftey meeting"

Something about him having near split his skull on the frame under his trailer when my over loaded Parrott gun went off sooner than he thought .

Gary

What I was doing until SUDDENLY interrupted by a LOUD cannon blast 15 feet away was blocking up the Paixhans Mortar trailer with timbers whose purpose it was to keep the trailer upright during firing and to prevent it from collapsing and allowing the large mortar from being pitched off and possibly squashing Gary AND his LOUD Parrott gun. Boy, now THAT'S a mental image!! All was forgiven and we had a great shoot.

Tracy and Mike

Double D · « **Reply #9 on:** November 28, 2009, 07:13:40 PM »

Next years pre shoot safety meeting will include a roll call!!!!

Victor3 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 28, 2009, 10:11:07 PM »

A guy on here posted a video of he and his buddies shooting his cannon. With one of the guys about to pull the lanyard, he's say "Send it!".

I liked that one.

RocklockI · « **Reply #11 on:** November 29, 2009, 03:15:03 AM »

Thats High Speed low Drag jargon . I know is true cause I saw it on TV . Some ubercool Marine Snipers doped out their shot and when everything was ready the spotter said "send it"

I liked it too ,but its a little too modern and ubercool for me . gary

Ex 49'er · « **Reply #12 on:** November 29, 2009, 05:28:49 AM »

If you want to abbreviate "Fire In The Hole" just say "FITH"!

subdjoe · « **Reply #13 on:** November 29, 2009, 09:02:21 AM »

I don't remember what TV show it was, but at one proving ground in the UK, when they gave a count-down for a test shot, the count was, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, -, 4, 3, 2, 1, FIRE!. The explaination was that sometimes the guy on the trigger would key on the "FI" in Five, and fire then. So, to prevent that, they drop the word "five" and just put in a pause.

navygunner · « **Reply #14 on:** November 29, 2009, 03:39:45 PM »

Battery d 1st Michigan light artillery gun corporal gives PREPARE!!!!!!!! bringing positions 1,2&3 into the ear cover, lean back position
FIRE!!!!!!!!
NG

artillerybuff · « **Reply #15 on:** November 29, 2009, 05:12:59 PM »

Yelling out "Clear Front" is not in any period artillery manual I have ever read and is a modern day reenacting term that should be dropped for period correctness. It does not add any safety, so why do it?

Correct command is "Ready", then "Fire".

Anthony Variz

subdjoe · « **Reply #16 on:** November 29, 2009, 08:10:48 PM »

Quote from: artillerybuff on November 29, 2009, 05:12:59 PM

Yelling out "Clear Front" is not in any period artillery manual I have ever read and is a modern day reenacting term that should be dropped for period correctness. It does not add any safety, so why do it?

Correct command is "Ready", then "Fire".

Anthony Variz

In period they did not have to worry about liability for kids, dogs, spectators wandering in either. The "clear front" command is partially to have the crew scan to make sure you really are clear to fire. Yes, the Chief of Piece has the ultimate responsibility, but the extra check and response doesn;t hurt.
Tuilp/Mississippi rammers are not 'correct' either, so I guess they shouldn't be used.

KABAR2 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 29, 2009, 08:15:16 PM »

Quote from: RocklockI on November 28, 2009, 05:32:11 PM

So to sum it up ...I'd rather split Tracys skull than yell "Fire in ..."

Gary

Gary your too rough on your friends! If I ever make it out to Montana I'll be at the other end of the firing line ........

RocklockI · « **Reply #18 on:** November 30, 2009, 03:15:43 AM »

KABAR2 , You have not Mr Kunze have you

? He needed a knock on his head .

IMHO

Gary

I had no idea he was upside down in the long grass underneith his trailer .

READYFIRE!BOOM ..BONK ..."&%$)@#$"

..... "It NOT READYFIRE !"

Boom ,bonk

How about Ready .. BONK ! Maybe not as official as some , but its a reminder to Tracy not to crawl around at the firing line under nieth his trailer . Save that nosence for later Kunze ! Like a certain Tuco fellow said in a Clint Eastwood flick ."when it s time to shoot , Shoot ,dont talk ,or crawl around were you cannt see whats going on !

Ready BONK ! BOOM !

artillerybuff · « **Reply #19 on:** November 30, 2009, 03:35:53 AM »

Quote from: subdjoe on November 29, 2009, 08:10:48 PM

Quote from: artillerybuff on November 29, 2009, 05:12:59 PM
Yelling out "Clear Front" is not in any period artillery manual I have ever read and is a modern day reenacting term that should be dropped for period correctness. It does not add any safety, so why do it?

Correct command is "Ready", then "Fire".

Anthony Variz
In period they did not have to worry about liability for kids, dogs, spectators wandering in either. The "clear front" command is partially to have the crew scan to make sure you really are clear to fire. Yes, the Chief of Piece has the ultimate responsibility, but the extra check and response doesn;t hurt.
Tuilp/Mississippi rammers are not 'correct' either, so I guess they shouldn't be used.

While it is true we have to make concessions in to increase safety, such as worming after every shot, double sponging, using a modified rammer head, holding the implements vertically above wheels on a loaded piece, waiting three minutes between loading, using safety zone markers on the field, etc., however, adding additional farby commands does not increase safety at all. Every cannon crew knows to watch their safety zone with the utmost diligence at all times, and the "Ready" command lets everybody know a cannon is about to fire, and that you must have a clear front before firing. We keep our drill as close to the manual as possible without sacrificing safety, event to the point of calling out the type of round and range to the No. 5 man and sighting in the piece, even when firing blanks. If using Clear Front helps you feel safer then by all means keep using it...

Anthony Variz

SODAMAN · « **Reply #20 on:** November 30, 2009, 03:43:26 AM »

I use "fire in the hole - defend the ladies honor". I'm a southern boy our ladies need alot of defending.

KABAR2 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 30, 2009, 06:56:08 AM »

Gary,

I had the privilege of breaking bread with both T&M last year when they came through Virginia,

I didn't think either of these gentlemen need a bonk on the head then or any other time........

Try to refrain from causing them bodily injury if you can, If I ever have some real money I would

like to spend some with them, and if you bonk them on the head too many times they might not

even remember who I am........ or what I wanted......... maybe we will have to issue helmets out

to those around you on the firing line so they have a fighting chance...........

Allen <><

Cannoneer · « **Reply #22 on:** November 30, 2009, 07:55:42 AM »

Hallo Richard,
The word detective's sentiments ape mine to a tee, to hell with the hole and the fire in it, unless you happen to be a miner using high explosives.

thelionspaw · « **Reply #23 on:** November 30, 2009, 11:14:16 AM »

When I was kilted and before I sold it on eBay, I first bugled a tally-ho on my sterling silver fox hunting horn to garner attention and then announced, "prepare to fire" followed by "fire".

Rustic......I am NOT.

"Fire In The Hole" goes well with, "Hold my beer and watch this".

Richard "The Single Malt Man"

EL Caz 66 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 30, 2009, 01:48:38 PM »

Quote from: thelionspaw on November 30, 2009, 11:14:16 AM

When I was kilted and before I sold it on eBay, I first bugled a tally-ho on my sterling silver fox hunting horn to garner attention and then announced, "prepare to fire" followed by "fire".

Rustic......I am NOT.

"Fire In The Hole" goes well with, "Hold my beer and watch this".

Richard "The Single Malt Man"

So the next time I fire my cannon I'll have you over to hold my 40 once of Old English malt liquor.. While I shout out Fire in the hole..

Ed " don't like stinky"

RocklockI · « **Reply #25 on:** November 30, 2009, 02:01:08 PM »

El Cazador 66 , I would be surprised if any such swill has ever passed between your lips .

I myself am a man of class distinction TOO !

If I not going Killians ,Bud American Ale or Spatten 7.5%

Whatever ?

It's PBR for me . Thin easy drinking beer , I call it 'lawn mowing beer' AND NO I am NOT advocating getting drunk and playing with power tools !

Rednecks , White Socks and Pabsts Blue Ribbon beer !

Gary

No beer when shooting CANNONS

EL Caz 66 · « **Reply #26 on:** November 30, 2009, 02:29:41 PM »

Rock,

OK, I may of exaggerated a bit on my favorite choice of Ice Cold Beverage.. I just want to share a picture of me at my last back yard cannon shoot with rest of my mutt-en neighbors..

No! Jones point the cannon away from the kiddie pool..

RocklockI · « **Reply #27 on:** November 30, 2009, 05:16:47 PM »

I sand corrected......mightly ! + What are you some kinda reble yankee ?

Is that stack o cans your ...cannon ? I never saw one of those w/o the duct tape .

It's either a Lynyrd Skynyrd Concert a Jimmy Buffett Concert OR a backyard cannon shoot !!!! where ...not much drinking was allowed ?

The , BATF , Bureau , Alcohol , Tobacco and Firearms ! It always thought it sounded like a great party to me !!!

Looks like it was !!!!

Oh , nice smile ....too ..

Dude you kinda reminds me of 'Moms Mabley' .......Girl friend ,I thought you was dead !

Gary

carronader · « **Reply #28 on:** December 01, 2009, 04:01:16 AM »

Thank God you guys drink ' tourist class '. Selling a kilt on ebay..................drinking 'English Malt' .........you guys just ruined a perfectly good profile. You know our other national drink ' Tea ' is blended...yup blended from teas sourced from all over the world to produce the perfect brew.The best Whiskey is " Blended " from balanced Malts sourced from all over Scotland el cazador,England is that uneducated wasteland to the South, while I bow to your knowledge on things which go BOOM, sit back one evening with a glass of good quality blended Scottish Whiskey.You won't be disappointed.

RocklockI · « **Reply #29 on:** December 01, 2009, 04:51:07 AM »

Name one Carronader .

i am always open to learn something new .

I thought Richard sold his silver fox horn ?