Author Topic: Help reenactors with decision on vent placement  (Read 5030 times)

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Offline Indygunworks

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Re: Help reenactors with decision on vent placement
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2013, 07:50:16 AM »
Got a link for a slap hammer and power drivers?

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Re: Help reenactors with decision on vent placement
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2013, 07:52:24 AM »
You say option number one is better, but your drawing shows a verticle vent.  Would it be better if i can locate my verticle vent so i have around 1 inch away from the rear of the chamber?  Wouldn't that be the same as option number one?  A few people in this thread have said a verticle liner would be easier, and possibly better.

The drawing is an illustration to show how it goes in.  People may say it is easier, but I have to wonder howmany have really done it. 

My guess is they just laid the tapered barrel down in drill vise and drilled a hole.  Their hole went in at an angle- 90 degrees to the angle of the bottom of the barrel taper as it laid in the drill vise.

In order to drill the hole  perpendicular the would have  had to shim and block the barrel up until the bore was 90 degrees to the quill.   

Easier yes to lay it direct on the vise, perpendicular no.  Definitely not easier to drill perpendicular tot he bore.

Better, how?

 
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Also, is a stainless steel bolt the way to go for this? 
 

Why might it be better?  Because it is stainless? Not necessarily.  Might even set up electrolysis and corrode in place.  The cannon is not stainless, the liner is not stainless.  Stainless has no magic properties that would make it useful in this application.  Why bother?
 
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Thinking, a course thread stainless steel bolt, using gasket maker to seal everything off, but what size bolt?

Check my drawings in your original post for size ideas.


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Since this is a cast in place liner there could be some variations on where the liner is actually located in the cast iron, so drilling straight down will allow me to keep peeking and drill until i can see the drill bit enter the bore.  that will give me my depth to the bore which i can then subtract .125 from when i drill w/ the larger drill bit that i will use to tap the hole.  Fill all that up w/ some gasket maker and it should seal off rather nicely.

Why bother? Drill through and don't worry about. It is non-issue with gasket sealer.
 
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I for the life of me cannot figure out why i would want to go through all the extra steps of angling my vent liner if i can go vertically just as reliably.  I will put my vent hole 1 inch forward of the rear of the chamber though.
 

Actually why would go to all the trouble of shimming and blocking up you barrel just so you could get it vertical.   Laying it flat on the taper will get you angle  One inch is a bit far forward. Make a cartridge for your gun and measure the base thickness.  Compute where the vent whole center enters the chamber so it is some where around 1/4" to 1/2" ahead of the base wad of the cartridge.   

Besides the advantage of the gimlet going forward into the charge with an angled vent, and angled vent will send its ejecta to the rear of the gun into the safety zone.  A vertical vent shoots the ejecta straight up and it can fall anywhere-on your carriage, barrel, down your neck,  and burn where ever it lands.

Offline Indygunworks

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Re: Help reenactors with decision on vent placement
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2013, 07:58:35 AM »
all making pretty good sense here.... you are able to explain this in a way i can understand. 
 
Is it going to hurt anything if i file this down flush after the compound has cured or do i need to keep it in a manner which it can somehow be removed/replaced?

Offline Indygunworks

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Re: Help reenactors with decision on vent placement
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2013, 08:01:50 AM »
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Since this is a cast in place liner there could be some variations on where the liner is actually located in the cast iron, so drilling straight down will allow me to keep peeking and drill until i can see the drill bit enter the bore.  that will give me my depth to the bore which i can then subtract .125 from when i drill w/ the larger drill bit that i will use to tap the hole.  Fill all that up w/ some gasket maker and it should seal off rather nicely.

Why bother? Drill through and don't worry about. It is non-issue with gasket sealer.
 


In your picture it shows the bolt w/ a taper on the end of it that hits a recess above where my vent liner would be.  I am assuming that this is because the picture is of the copper vent.
 
you are suggessing drilling all the way into the bore the full size of the bolt correct?
 
you suggested 1/2 13  so that would mean a .425 hole all the way through the tube am i understanding this correctly?

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Re: Help reenactors with decision on vent placement
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2013, 08:32:19 AM »
all making pretty good sense here.... you are able to explain this in a way i can understand. 
 
Is it going to hurt anything if i file this down flush after the compound has cured or do i need to keep it in a manner which it can somehow be removed/replaced?

If it were me  using a socket head cap screw I would counter sink so the head was was almost flush then file the top flush.  You do want to be able get the vent out and replace it if need be. Which will probably never.

You also want to trim the length of the vent so that is doesn't protrude into the chamber and snag the cartridge when loading.   

Drill 29/64ths and tap.  Yes drill through.

Offline Indygunworks

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Re: Help reenactors with decision on vent placement
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2013, 08:53:46 AM »
If i use musket caps, will the nipple be long enough to protrude past the top of the socket head?  Same question but if i use the nail caps?  (still waiting on a link to those, i wasnt not able to find any information on using those w/ cannons, or any information on those in general)
 
I understand not to let the bolt protrude into the chamber, just making sure we are on the same page of a .425 hole drilled all the way through the seamless liner.

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Re: Help reenactors with decision on vent placement
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2013, 09:11:05 AM »
If i use musket caps, will the nipple be long enough to protrude past the top of the socket head?  Same question but if i use the nail caps?  (still waiting on a link to those, i wasnt not able to find any information on using those w/ cannons, or any information on those in general)
 
I understand not to let the bolt protrude into the chamber, just making sure we are on the same page of a .425 hole drilled all the way through the seamless liner.

If  you are going to use musket caps or blanks you will need to use something different than a socket head cap screw.  A 1/2-13 standard bolt will work just fine.  With a little thought and some modification you could actually use the  Vent  bolt to attach your slap hammer frame.   You would have to drill and tap the bolt head for a musket nipple.  Or drill and ream a hole to fit the blanks.

I don;t have a link for slap hammer.  Power driver blanks can found at  Home  Depot and possible Lowes.

I prefer Friction fuses
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Offline Indygunworks

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Re: Help reenactors with decision on vent placement
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2013, 10:06:54 AM »
I am assuming that they wont ship the friction primers w/ the black powder in the same box, and its a seperate 22 dollar hazmat fee for each box?
 
110 bucks for 100 friction primers and 345 dollars a case i am sure will get pretty pricey.

Offline Indygunworks

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Re: Help reenactors with decision on vent placement
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2013, 10:10:33 AM »
what size hole for friction primers, and will this hole still allow for other methods of ignition, if so which ones?

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Re: Help reenactors with decision on vent placement
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2013, 10:50:50 AM »
I am assuming that they wont ship the friction primers w/ the black powder in the same box, and its a seperate 22 dollar hazmat fee for each box?
 
110 bucks for 100 friction primers and 345 dollars a case i am sure will get pretty pricey.

Never paid a hazmant fee for the primers.   100 primers is a several year  supply for me.

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Re: Help reenactors with decision on vent placement
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2013, 10:56:02 AM »
Musket cap  won't work for blanks and friction primer.   I think that the friction primer will fit in a whole drilled and reamed for .22 blanks.

FWIW for the cannon you are building  quill and linstock or primed and linstock are more correct.  Primed means pouring pour FFFFG priming powder down the vent. 

Offline Indygunworks

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Re: Help reenactors with decision on vent placement
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2013, 11:10:43 AM »
What about friction primers, but some cannon fuse as the cheaper back up?  Will a hole drilled for friction primers also work for with cannon fuse?
 
 

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Re: Help reenactors with decision on vent placement
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2013, 12:44:03 PM »
What about friction primers, but some cannon fuse as the cheaper back up?  Will a hole drilled for friction primers also work for with cannon fuse?

Yes it will work just fine with fuse as well as with quill.   

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Re: Help reenactors with decision on vent placement
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2013, 01:00:29 PM »
What about friction primers, but some cannon fuse as the cheaper back up?  Will a hole drilled for friction primers also work for with cannon fuse?

Yes it will work just fine with fuse as well as with quill.

Then thats what I want to go with.

Offline docbob5707

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Re: Help reenactors with decision on vent placement
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2013, 10:27:09 AM »
 Indygunworks - So glad you resurrected this thread as my crew and I are also considering ether the Hern's Veruggen or their 2/3 scale Six Pounder - we'll be ordering it before the end of the month - your asking and getting answers to the same things we are wondering about - Thanks guys for all the info and comments.

Offline threepdr

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Re: Help reenactors with decision on vent placement
« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2013, 04:55:46 PM »
I have this same tube, but I have not yet vented it.  As stated earlier, it is Hern's new Rev War tube and it does have a steel liner. I noticed the the breech ends about half way under the vent field.  I would vent it as shown in #1 except I would not add the 3/4 inch dimple at the top of the vent.  That will prevent a good solid seal under the thumbstall when sponging the gun.  That era gun should be primed with quil not loose powder anyway.  Loose powder priming causes more misfires than any other type priming and is discouraged at Rev War events and not allowed for National Park living history firing.    Here is a link to pics of my tube.  I don't know when I will get around to mounting it.
http://photobucket.com/cannontube
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Offline threepdr

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Re: Help reenactors with decision on vent placement
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2013, 11:05:40 AM »
Just a note on Hern's nomenclature on this tube as a "Verbruggen."  This is a far cry from the Vebruggen light 3 pounder.  The Verbruggen tube was shorter, lighter and made of bronze.  However, this tube is a fair representation of an iron 3 pounder from the late 18th century.  Its outside dimensions are in line for that, although the bore is closer to a 2 pounder. 
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