Four Cops Murdered by Pardoned Violent Criminal

[Siskiyou]

I have questioned Pardons by governors in the past.  A common thread is to reduce prison over crowding.  Many years ago the first governor Brown pardon a bunch of killers.  Chopped up body parts lead back to one of the pardon killers.  A common number I have heard over the years is 75 percent of felons released from prison recommit.

It will be interesting to find out why the suspected getaway driver is out?

“Prosecutors were expected Wednesday to charge Maurice Clemmons' alleged getaway driver, Darcus D. Allen, according to Pierce County sheriff's spokesman Ed Troyer. Authorities accuse Allen, a convicted murderer who served time in an Arkansas prison with Clemmons, of being the getaway driver for Clemmons as he fled the scene of the shootings at coffee shop in Parkland early Sunday.”

[myronman3]

murder's, rapists, and child molesters should never have sentences reduced.    period.   
  overcrowded?  drop them off on a tiny island somewhere.  preferably fly over and throw them out the door as the plane is passing over.   

[MGMorden]

I actually got a report earlier in my inbox that police shootings as a whole are up this year, not just in the NW:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/1201/p02s01-usgn.html

I see there has been a rash of police shootings and other anti-police antics in the NW of lately. I think a station was bombed or something like that, too.

..TM7

[alsaqr]

I have questioned Pardons by governors in the past.  A common thread is to reduce prison over crowding.  Many years ago the first governor Brown pardon a bunch of killers.  Chopped up body parts lead back to one of the pardon killers.  A common number I have heard over the years is 75 percent of felons released from prison recommit.

One of the worst was TX governor Ann Richards.  Because of prison over crowding, Richards pressured the TX parole board to release thousands of violent felons.  One of these guys was Kenneth Allen McDuff.  McDuff went on to commit many more murders before he was caught and sentenced to death.  The McDuff case cost Ann Richards her job when she was beat by George W. Bush in 1994.    

[anweis]

Bad upbringing by parents to blame.

What parents?

[Dee]

I have questioned Pardons by governors in the past.  A common thread is to reduce prison over crowding.  Many years ago the first governor Brown pardon a bunch of killers.  Chopped up body parts lead back to one of the pardon killers.  A common number I have heard over the years is 75 percent of felons released from prison recommit.

One of the worst was TX governor Ann Richards.  Because of prison over crowding, Richards pressured the TX parole board to release thousands of violent felons.  One of these guys was Kenneth Allen McDuff.  McDuff went on to commit many more murders before he was caught and sentenced to death.  The McDuff case cost Ann Richards her job when she was beat by George W. Bush in 1994.    

Ann Richards was a loud mouthed female drunk. I and most I know voted her out because when we wanted the opportunity to VOTE for concealed carry she got on TV and said: As long as I am Governor there will not be any Wild West gun totein in Texas. Easy fix! We voted her ass out. When the Bill went to Bush, he said: Don't need to vote on it, I'll sign it. Thus CCW became law in Texas.

Final comment on the cop shooter. Everyone seems to think that Huckabee had nothing to do with the last weeks events. BUT! IF LAWYERS had not started pushing the issue of lessening the sentence, and IF he had not commuted the 100 year sentence that A COURT SENTENCED HIM TO, would he have been paroled? Would he have been put back into the system? Or would he still be sitting his ass in an Arkansas prison, with four cops going home every night, and a little girl NOT raped? Which one would he be doing?
SOMEBODY AT THE TRIAL, SAW SOMETHING, that a bunch of meddling lawyers, and a governor didn't and did the right thing, but the lawyers, and the governor couldn't leave it alone. So much for their beloved court system.

[Casull]

BUT! IF LAWYERS had not started pushing the issue of lessening the sentence, and IF he had not commuted the 100 year sentence that A COURT SENTENCED HIM TO, would he have been paroled? Would he have been put back into the system? Or would he still be sitting his ass in an Arkansas prison, with four cops going home every night

Dee, "what ifs" are a useless and diverting waste of time.

What if his father hadn't got his mother pregnant:  four cops going home every night
What if the parole board (who I am betting are not LAWYERS) didn't parole him:  four cops going home every night
What if Washington hadn't released him on bail:  four cops going home every night
What if the cops had been better shots:  four cops going home every night
What if Huckabee hadn't commuted his sentence and he was paroled in another five or six years instead of a few years ago, and what if at that time he killed ten cops, five nuns, twenty school children and a dog:  well you see how stupid "what ifs" can be. 

[myronman3]

throw the "what if's" out the window.  the guy never should have been released from prison.  everyone that had a hand in his release is responsible.  

[alsaqr]

Dee, "what ifs" are a useless and diverting waste of time.

Spin it, lawyer, spin it!!!!

[Redtail1949]

a person can kill many in mere seconds i doubt the cops had anytime to do anything. they say one did shoot him and i know that was a mircle that he could. i am just sorry the bullet hit him in the gut instead of the head.

the real problem about judges and jury is that when justice is applied it is supposed to be blind. yet so many times its either vindictive as hell or completely lenient regardless of the crime.

in this case huckaby was dealing with a young kid or man at the time who had not done all the other things yet...he just made it possible to get paroled but not but not by him but a panel on a parole board. they did and the guy went from bad to worse. and then others really failed in the application of their duties resulting in a little girl getting raped and on the the murders of the cops.

i can understand that huck might reasoned that thhe person was so young  and he thought he at least deserved an opportunity to be heard for parole. i do not know what the murders he committed to begin with were about. never the less no doubt they had plenty of warnings about the dangers of this guy. i bet if it is reasearched whoever let him bond out repeatedly probably was a far left activist judge that wore his feelings on his shirtsleeve.

[alsaqr]

You Huckabee apologists can spin it any way you want but the fact is that the scumbag would still be in an AR prison except for Huckabee's meddling.  You can blame "far left liberal judges" or whoever else you want to but it was your main man Huckabee who released the scumbag from prison. 

The 16 year old scumbag went on a 7 month terror spree.  He was also a terror in prison.  Despite all that, the naive scum loving Huckabee commuted his sentence and pressured the parole board to free the perp.  


Huckabee still does not get it.  CNN ambushed Huckabee as he was going to a speaking engagement:

  
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/03/washington.clemmons.huckabee/index.html

[gypsyman]

What Huckabee did, governors do all the time. This doesn't excuse him. It's just that this time, it came back big time. It'll cost him. He might just as well keep his job on Fox, as he'll get hammered if he try's to run for dog warden. gypsyman

[Dee]

The lawyers are the ones that don't get it. Their still blamin it on Washington state when fact of the matter is, the meddling lawyers in Arkansas, and Huckabee second guessed a jury and commuted a sentence on a piece of trash. They should have minded their own business and Washington would have never been in the picture.
I was called "stupid", for saying "if" and Huckabee is saying "I wish". How stupid is that?
He should be "wishing" he hadn't listened to meddling lawyers in that state and then the media wouldn't be following him around. Like it or not. The lawyers and Huckabee got the ball rollin, and it should never have been tampered with.
I like the line: 100 years sentence was just too much for a 16 year old. HUH? Well that theory got blown all to hell.   He was right where he should have been LEFT!

[alsaqr]

I like the line: 100 years sentence was just too much for a 16 year old. HUH?  Well that theory got blown all to hell.

 

+1

It is fitting that the perp was shot just above the belly button and suffered for two days.   His sister patched him up by stuffing the bullet hole full of cotton balls and binding him up with duct tape. 

Clemmons went on a 7 month crime spree and was found guilty of five felonies.  He was also a terror in prison.  Interview with the guy who prosecuted Clemmons:

http://us.cnn.com/video/?/video/crime/2009/12/03/griffin.clemmons.huckabee.cnn
  

[myronman3]

i kinda like the fact that he was shot in the guts.   i bet he wrestled himself alot before he died.   

[Casull]

Dee and alsaqr, I wish I lived in your perfect world where humans never make mistakes.  But, I know, you guys are perfect.  Dee, maybe if you could let go of a little bit of that anger you have for lawyers, you could mellow and enjoy life.  I've seen guys with the same attitudes about cops (looks like the one that's now dead was of that mind).  Yeah, like lawyers, there are bad cops.  But, I don't go off half cocked and bad mouth all cops.  I try to judge a person by what he has inside, and not what he does for a living.  You might give that try Dee.

[Dee]

Sorry I judge folks by what I see them do, and what they do for money. I can't see inside them, just what they do outside. That's a pretty good window to their heart. As far as their heart itself, that's between them and God.
We all have points Casull. Just because you don't agree, doesn't mean we're wrong. Lots of folks don't like cops, and ex-cops, you've said plenty about that, but I don't care, there's usually a reason for it. I tried to help folks and I did, and I caught bad guys. I tried to help get the trash off the street. Your job is to turn the trash can over.
You don't have to like me, or agree with me, and if you haven't noticed not everyone DISAGREES with me. Just ignore me, it isn't hard.
Whether anyone likes it or not, a bunch or a few, it doesn't matter, but meddling lawyers got their motions made to meddle in this case in Arkansas, and convinced Huckabee to get involved, and he did. And it SNOWBALLED into what it is today, with folks dead, and damaged all over a bunch of lawyers that didn't agree with a jury. Their actions initially, STARTED everything that has lead to one tragedy after another. And also, like I said at the beginning of this thread. Everyone was giving their opinions, and that was all, and YOU came in telling everyone they were wrong. You started it, and don't like the way it went. You wanna blame this heat on me? That's fine, but what I just said is the truth. Like it or not, I'll just consider the source.
Now one other point. Everyone is applauding the shooting of the perpatrator, and I must say he needed killing, but for the officer that had to perform that task, his life also is forever changed, and not for the good either. He will relive that night for the rest of his life, while lawyers and Governors continue to release pukes that juries convict and sentence. Also I live a very happy almost lawyer free life, and by the way, I don't have anger for meddling lawyers. It's contempt.
Now why don't we end this Casull? You and I are worlds apart, and will never agree on this issue?

[Casull]

Sorry I judge folks by what I see them do, and what they do for money.

No, Dee, what you do is stereotype. You don't know anything about the "lawyers" in this case that you keep referring to.  Maybe you have, and maybe you haven't, seen other lawyers doing something you disagree with.  But, just because you may not be able to understand why it was done, you say it is wrong.

I tried to help folks and I did, and I caught bad guys. I tried to help get the trash off the street.

So you say.  Did you ever beat a confession out of someone?  Was he later found innocent?  Ever take any bribes?  Because, just like you think lawyers' only jobs are to get bad people out based upon a few examples, there are those that believe cops' only jobs are to beat and harass and break the law, because that is what they have seen some cops do.

Your job is to turn the trash can over.

See, you just exposed your ignorance.  You don't know anything about me.  For the last 19 years, I have been a transactional attorney (real estate, business sales, estate planning, etc.).  So, I haven't been turning any trash cans over.   

Dee, I do get a kick out of your supreme trust of juries.  I'll bet you were cussing any that turned one of your catches loose.  Have you really seen some of the people sitting on juries?  Were you in favor of the multi-million dollar jury award for the lady that spilled hot coffee on her lap?  Juries are no more infallible than cops or lawyers (but are usually comprised of those not bright enough to get out of jury duty).   

[Dee]

Is this thread about Clemmons, Huckabee, and the lawyers that persuaded Huckabee to commute his sentence or me?
Casull seems to think it's about me. He keeps hammering away at me, and now HE'S ON WHAT IF'S. He said what if's are stupid. Does this great legalist really think he can change my mind?
This thread used to be about HOW CLEMMONS GOT OUT IN THE FIRST PLACE. Now Casull has made it about ME.
Order in the court: The lawyer turned phycologist has changed the topic. It's MY FAULT NOW.
While Casull is in "final arguement" continually proclaiming me stupid and ignorant, ask yourselves? Who in Arkansas, got this HUGE MESS i.e. TRAGEDY, rolling in the first place? Who took it to Huckabee, who made it possible for the parole board to even consider releaseing this clown. Be honest.

Casull you can have the final word on this. I'm getting bored.

[Squib]

If this nation would just bring the death penalty back, and stick with cheap public execution, it would solve lots of problems.  I'm thinking the spanish horse (mentioned before in a different article, look it up on wikipedia) or lynching would be not only cheap but incite fear within the predatory persons permeating our society.  I also feel that unlimited appeals is rediculous, one failure to overturn a conviction is enough.  Cruel and unusual punishment doesn't apply to rapists and torturers- if the execution fits the crime then it's all good.  

As for being too young to be judged for crimes committed, bs- I don't care if the felon is an 8yr old with a temper and no conscience, a retarded 20yr old, a 60yr old with dementia or if there is some other medical/biological reason to excuse the behavior.... it doesn't matter WHY someone chooses to deviate, all that matters is that it happened.  If manslaughter charges can stick, then so should the death penalty.  I bet if I ran over a kid at age 16 I'd still be in prison right now... but a violent offender (rape, murder, aggravated assault, robbery..) would get a few years if the case wasn't high-profile.  Let's not forget O.J.- the man was known to have done the double murder but he didn't lose his freedom (yet he was strangely GUILTY enough to lose most of his wealth)

one more thing: Dee is right, it doesn't matter much if at all what a person is thinking and feeling "deep down"- acknowledge it for what it is and act accordingly.  if that scumbag is acting selfishly (taking advantage of others and placing it's desires above others' welfare by force) then that person needs to be held fully accountable.

[alsaqr]

WA and AR are having a flame war over who is responsible for Clemmons being released on bail in WA after he hit a cop and raped a little girl.  

1.  After Clemmons hit the cop and raped a little girl, WA reported to AR that Clemmons had violated parole.
2.  AR put out a fugitive warrant on Clemmons that would hold him without bail.  
3.  Without warning, AR dropped the fugitive warrant at the request of Clemmons AR lawyer.  This made  Clemmons eligible for bail in WA.  
4.  WA did not ask for increased bail when the fugitive warrant was dropped.
5.  AR is saying that they renewed the fugitive warrant in October.  
5.  WA is saying that the prosecutor in AR has back-dated the fugitive warrant to cover his butt after Clemmons murdered four cops.  

Part of the story is covered here: 

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/412750_pierceco30.html

[alsaqr]

Dee and alsaqr, I wish I lived in your perfect world where humans never make mistakes.  But, I know, you guys are perfect.

A very long time ago my wife, my child and I were visited by two armed home invaders; one of them had been pardoned by an eastern state governor.  The scumbags tried to rape my wife and kill my child.  It
is my sincere hope that nothing like this ever happens to you and yours.  If, God forbid, that it did happen to you and yours; you just might have a different view of meddling governors who release violent criminals onto the street. 

I'm done on this one.  Have a good day, counselor. 

[myronman3]

every state needs the castle doctrine, and people should shoot to kill these scumbags each time, everytime.     simplistic?  yup.   effective?  you betcha.  

   imagine a world where Joe Horn was your neighbor.   how many pardons, parole releases, and chances to hurt more people are the thugs that Joe Horn took care of going to get?     problem solved.   

[Squib]

they're trying to make sarah palin into a barbie doll, now huckabee is an idiot governor... I hope someone from the right can stay above all this or we're gonna have trouble booting obama in two years....

I'm glad that obama's administration has been picked apart so well by the right-wing media but the left-wing media is going to tear apart his possible opponents now... I hope they fail.  Remember though, that democrats just have to be "nice", while republicans have to stand up tall and preach doctrine... which works till that politician gets caught cheating on his wife or getting some easy money.  With the recession going strong I wonder how many right-wing politicians will be able to refuse the easy money offered to them?  I'm glad they're going to vote anti-socialist but going for corporatism will come back on the US in ten years.  Maybe a third party really can step up this year (hopefully a conservative one, and maybe it'll shake up the GOP enough to get some reform started)

if the liberals keep congress much longer we'll not have anything but poverty and destitution in this nation, and no guns to stay above the fray.  Remember the mafia was a big deal in the roaring twenties- people get bold when they don't have much to lose (by remaining loyal to the government).

[Casull]

OK, I surrender.  Although Dee was, and has been, the one basically saying that all lawyers are scumbags, for some reason, I am not supposed to take offense at that.  OK, I get it.  I will ignore his constant belittlement of attorneys, because to respond is to be guilty of "personal assaults".  But, just remember that infallible jury you put so much faith in also acquitted OJ.  So, have at it boys.  Rip ol Huck to pieces with no opposing views.

[Redtail1949]

"Do not judge a book by its cover"

[MGMorden]

Cruel and unusual punishment doesn't apply to rapists and torturers- if the execution fits the crime then it's all good.

Is there any wonder that we're fighting liberals on "interpretations" of the 2nd amendment when we're willing to try to debate away when the Constitution applies and when it doesn't?

Cruel and Unusual punishment is banned for a reason.  The 2nd amendment isn't the only one that matters.  Obey the Constitution and if he's found guilty of a serious enough crime then execute the criminal in a quick and normal way, or don't complain when the anti's start playing the "interpretation" game too.

[Dee]

Dee....the only thing I can say about this whole terrible chain of events is that all us liberty loving citizens very often have a problem with judges legislating from the bench; moreover have a problem with Judges PLAYING GOD FROM THE BENCH. Huckabee did what he thought was right and by the regs, and perhaps in that context...it didn't work out quite right at all. The guy responsible is the bad guy..it was his choices and his insanity that caused this horrid event and I'm surprised the system didn't tag him after other offenses. Others did try to occupy the high ground with this guy and it didn't work out...they must be disappointed and horrorified. Such is the way the system often works when a concept and system of liberty is to be safeguarded. I recognize you won't see it that way. Police were once on the frontlines to guard this system as well, and I hope most remain cognizant of this idea.
BTW, arguing with Casull always descends into personal asaults.

..TM7

TM, I am not taking your post here as antagonistic, I would just like to say that I fully understand the concept of the Criminal Justice System, and I am conscious of the fact that at times it is flawed. The original thread topic was the perp, and Huckabee. At the time of the beginning of this thread a lot of fact were not known, and everyone was merely stating opinions with none not actually knowing the real details. That's all it was.
My whole point that many missed is ACCEPTING RESPONSIBILITY for what you personally did, and for allowing others to do, thru the power of your office.
Example: Granted there are good cops, and not so good cops, which is to say they run the gamut. However! In Texas, lets say a cop stops a drunk driver. He determines he's drunk, but elects to let him get in the passenger seat, and let his wife drive. When the cop breaks loose and the drunk takes over the wheel again, and hurts himself, and or worse someone else? Guess what happens to the cop? He prosecuted in criminal court. That's' the law, and well it should be. He had an opportunity to prevent it, and took a pass, and tragedy happened. But on the other hand, that same cop arrests the man, takes him to an ER to get a blood test and the tech that takes the blood didn't check a block on the form he filled out. The drunks lawyer picks up on it, and gets the drunk off on a technicality with a ER full of witnesses that testified the guy was on his butt drunk, and a blood test that has been nullified over one box on a from not being checked. Then he goes and gets drunk again and kills someone.
Example # 2. A guy rapes a child, is arrested, and the arresting officer doesn't get him to sign the miranda warning before the perp gives a hand written statement. Technicality, lawyer gets him off, and he rapes again. The lawyer caught the technicality on the hand written statement, got the rapist off, but all he gets is a check.
Now none of this has ever happened to me personally, but I have watched it happen over and over. Justice, or manipulation? Now I haven't used an adjective stronger than meddling, and that is on display on all my posts. Now, if you release a killer, or make moves to get a killer released, take responsibility for your actions LEADING TO, the end result. I have been beat in court, and I have not been beat in court. I did my job, that's all I could do. After that it's on someone else. Sometimes somethings are done that are "legal" to do, but they are not "right" to do.
Many times you and I do not agree, but we both have the right, to feel, and see things the way we chose. Agreed?
quote]

[rex6666]

I wonder if this has ever happened any where else or any other time?
It seems like this is the only case of someone getting out of jail when
they shouldn't have. Huckabee is the only governor to commute a sentence.
Dee doesn't care if someone tries to change his mind, cause they can't
but he will work all day on trying to change every one elses.
Alasqr is tring to right all the wrongs someone tried to do to him, and wants
to live on it. You had a bad deal you handled it, you are not going to
right all wrongs

It is a good thing this is the only case to talk about cause most of us could not
keep up if it had ever happened before.

[Dee]

rex, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I'm doin the same thing your doin. I'm givin my opinion.