Four Cops Murdered by Pardoned Violent Criminal

[alsaqr]

Yep, The cop murdering scumbag was serving 94 year sentence in AR when he was pardoned by governor Huckabee about ten years ago. The Huckabee spin on this one is  sorry:


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091130/ap_on_re_us/us_officers_shot

SEATTLE – A suspect in the slaying of four police officers who were gunned down in a suburban coffee shop was holed up at a Seattle house early Monday, wounded and possibly dead, police said.

..................

Clemmons, who has a long criminal history — including a long prison sentence commuted by former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee nearly a decade ago — became the prime target Sunday in the search for the killer of Lakewood police Sgt. Mark Renninger, 39, and Officers Ronald Owens, 37; Tina Griswold, 40; and Greg Richards 42.

......

Clemmons has an extensive violent criminal history from Arkansas. He also recently charged in Washington state with assaulting a police officer, and second-degree rape of a child. Using a bail bondsman, he posted $150,000 — only $15,000 of his own money — and was released from jail last week.

..................

In 1989, Clemmons, then 17, was convicted in Little Rock for aggravated robbery. He was paroled in 2000 after Huckabee commuted a 95-year prison sentence.

Huckabee, who was criticized during his run for the Republican presidential nomination in 2008 for granting many clemencies and commutations, cited Clemmons' youth. Clemmons later violated his parole, was returned to prison and released in 2004.

On Sunday, Huckabee issued this statement on his Web site: "Should he be found to be responsible for this horrible tragedy, it will be the result of a series of failures in the criminal justice system in both Arkansas and Washington state." 

[magooch]

This guy, Clemmons makes a great case for terminating the bad guys instead of their sentences.

If Huckabee had any thoughts about another run at the POTUS--he might as well stick with the gig he's got.

I think the cops ought to take a lesson from this.  Don't congregate in public places with your guard down.  It's kind of like defensive driving; you've got to believe that they are all out to get you.

[Dee]

But, but, but Huckabee is a TRUE CONSERVATIVE, HE SAID SO. He believes in JUSTICE. There must be some mistake. He would never release a real criminal that the PEOPLE had decided to put in prison. Would he?

[BBF]

Not to excuse the Governor, it seems that the State of Washington played a big and more recent part on that situation as well.

[Dee]

If the Governor had not interfered with the "Justice System", the clown would still be in an Arkansas pen, and the 4 officers would have finished their reports and went home. Huckabee involved himself in something he knew nothing about, and is one of the DIRECT CAUSES.
In fact, his (Clemmons) run in's with the Arkansas authorities in 2004 would not have happened either, if he had been left to do his 90+ year sentence.
Huckabee was noted for his meddling in releasing prisoners.

[Oldshooter]

If Huckabee had any thoughts about another run at the POTUS--he might as well stick with the gig he's got.

Since he is republican that's a given! A Demolib, with the aid of media could move away from this!

Just when you start liking a guy, you find out that he is human and fallible.

[Questor]

A couple of comments:
1) He may have been put into prison for a crime committed at age 17, but so many kids are hardened criminals by that age. Age should not determine whether a criminal should be given leniency. It should be a factor if the kid has no prior arrests or the crimes are just stupid kid stuff, but simply saying that a minor should be given leniency is a blind approach.

2) I've never thought it was a good idea for cops to establish a pattern of behavior like meeting at the same place at the same time of day. It only seems like something that criminals can exploit.

[SHOOTALL]

Unless new proof is found that clears a person they should do their time . It is nothing but a political game now when it should be used as a check and blance for judges who are out of line .

[gypsyman]

Huckabee is to blame. Washington legal system is to blame. Bad upbringing by parents to blame. Good case for the pro-abortion people. gypsyman

[alsaqr]

Huckabee was especially responsive to requests for from preachers who wanted someone pardoned.  Huckabbe pardoned twice as many felons as the previous three AR governors combined.  That includes the dastardly liberal, Bill Klinton. 

I am especially sensitive to pardons of violent scumbags by state governors.  Many years ago I defended my family, my home and myself from armed home invaders.  One of those scumbags was pardoned by a WV governor. 

[rex6666]

Yea it must be Huckabees fault.
the fact that the state of Wa. had him for RAPE and asaulting a police
officer and LET HIM GO ON BAIL has nothing to do with it. I understand
that crying and moaning about a state doesn't make you feel better,
but blaming a person now that will fix it.

their is nothing like waiting till something bad happens to point fingers and
blame someone. Maybe we should have taken Huck out and hanged him
6 mos. ago. Maybe we should write letters to the state of Wa. asking why.

Things happen!

[Dee]

Ever ask the question? If Huckabee had let him do his 90+ year sentence what would have happened? Answer? Nothing. The Officers would have went home to their families that night. Now they will never be home. I have personally delivered those death messages to families. It is an event that stick with the messenger, and the recipient.
A killing is not a big deal, unless you do the killing, or a member of you family is the victim. Then it is a very big deal.
 A jury of his piers convicted him, and sentenced him, and ONE MAN, overturned that conviction, and 4 officers died in one room. And he hasn't been caught yet, sooooo?
Do you feel it ok that when the State of California voted on the illegals by a huge margin that it was ok for 4 or 5 judges to over turn an election?

[Redtail1949]

Hate to see it but Huckabee will pay a price in public opinion for this. Probably will cost him any bid for President. The lesson to learn here is 'DO NOT GOVERN WITH YOUR HEART! DO NOT TRY AND SECOND GUESS A JURY AND IMPLEMENT YOUR JUDGEMENTS UNLESS THERE IS A CERTAIN FAILURE IN THE JURY!"

No matter what excuses the Huck shows are tells and now the Washington State Authorities nothing can excuse them for this. Washington State just had to look at his record and the crime he was accused of to know he had a very high probability of being a danger if free.

Thats the trouble with everyone wanting to be so "'feeling and careing" if you make a mistake you go home but someones loved one will not.

[Dee]

Precisely Redtail. I am aware that sometimes juries make mistakes, and with the current trend over the last 50 or so decades of running up, conviction records and acquittal records for profit, lawyers have turned the system many times into a battle to win, and damn be right or wrong.
BUT! This guy was sentenced to 90+ years, let go, got into trouble again in Arkansas, let go again, got into trouble in Washington State, let go again, and now four people are dead, just for the hell of it. And Lord only knows where and what he is doing RIGHT NOW!
At the very least, he should have been put on parole in Arkansas, and when he got into trouble again, back to the slammer for his 90 year sentence IN FULL.
We need term limits from State Reps, to Governors, to Congressmen, just like Presidents. Eight years, and go get a job.
I also think that everyone responsible for letting this guy out, from the first time with Huckabee, to the present should be PAYING THE FAMILIES OF ALL HIS VICTIMS for the rest of THEIR LIVES.

[alsaqr]

Things happen!

God forbid that things should "happen" to you and yours as it happened to me and mine.  We were attacked in our home by two scumbags.  One scumbag was pardoned by a WV governor.  

The stark fact is that Huckabee stuck his meddling nose into the AR justice system and let the scumbag go against the wishes of several prosecutors.  Now a little girls is raped and four cops murdered as a result of the actions of our resident FAUX News hero.  

This is not the first time where a guy who was released on Huckabee's watch murdered someone.  Huckbee pressured the AR parole board to release one of his pet scumbags who subsequently raped and murdered a lady.  

All you can say is: "Things happen."

‘DEAR WAYNE’
So much for the standard issues of presidential campaigns. The wild card in Huckabee’s record is his position on executive clemency, a power he exercised fairly liberally as governor of Arkansas. In the bus, I ask him about what is perhaps the single most controversial — and unquestionably the most bizarre — episode of his time in the governor’s office.

That’s where things stood when Huckabee took office on July 15, 1996. Huckabee tells me he had his doubts about Dumond’s guilt, and also felt sorry for him over the castration attack. On September 20, just weeks after taking office, Huckabee announced that he intended to set Dumond free, saying that there were “serious questions as to the legitimacy of his guilt.” On October 31, Huckabee met with the parole board. Not long after, the board voted to free Dumond, but on the condition he move to another state. Huckabee was pleased, in part because — given that the board had voted to free Dumond — there was no need for Huckabee to commute the sentence or pardon him. So Huckabee denied Dumond’s now-irrelevant pardon application while at the same time congratulating him on his freedom. “Dear Wayne,” Huckabee wrote in a letter to Dumond. “My desire is that you be released from prison. I feel that parole is the best way for your reintroduction to society to take place.”

But no state would take Dumond. He remained behind bars for two and a half more years, until the board voted to free him in Arkansas. He was released in October 1999 and returned home. The next year, Dumond left the state, moving to a small town near Kansas City, Mo. Within weeks of arriving, he sexually assaulted and murdered a 39-year-old woman at an apartment complex near his home. The day that happened, everyone knew that freeing Wayne Dumond had been a very, very bad idea.

[Cheesehead]

Would there be even more trouble if a white guy shot 4 black officers?

Cheese

[powderman]

Would there be even more trouble if a white guy shot 4 black officers?

Cheese

YEP. Automatic hate crime. POWDERMAN. 

[Cheesehead]

I see this as a racially driven hate crime.

Cheese

[BBF]

Al Sharpton and Co would be standing on their soap boxes again.

[Casull]

 

A jury of his piers convicted him, and sentenced him, and ONE MAN, overturned that conviction,

Dee, a jury did not sentence him, a judge did.  Juries do not dole out sentences.  So ONE MAN sentenced him, and another released him after serving 11 years for robbery.  Hell, there are plenty of murderers that get less than that.  I don't know the details of his first conviction, but 95 years for a robbery committed by a 17 year old seems a little excessive.  I'm certainly not saying that a mistake was not made, but hindsight is always 20 20.

The stark fact is that Huckabee stuck his meddling nose into the AR justice system

alsagar, you should think before speaking.  As Governor, Huckabee did not stick his "meddling nose into the AR justice system", he was part of the system.  A governor, like the President, has the right and authority to issue pardons.  You may not like it, but at least attempt to understand it. 

[BBF]

The other item that has me puzzled is the fact that those officers were sitting in a public place at the start of their shift doing police work if the report is correct. I thought they had the "Cop Shop" for that.

[alsaqr]

You may not like it, but at least attempt to understand it. 

Oh, I do understand it.  Huckabee issued twice as many pardons as the previous three AR governors put together.   Huckabee is a lily livered scum lover.  There goes great white hope Mike Huckabee's hopes for 2012.  Clemmons is Huckabee's Willie Horton albatross. 

Yep, lets all blame the cops for hanging out in their favorite coffee shop.   Let's give Huckabee a pass for letting a violent felon loose on US society. 

[Dee]

Hate to bust your bubble Casull but, you don't know what your talking about. Many times a JURY after convicting ALSO VOTES ON THE SENTENCE, and is usually given the CHOICES PRESCRIBED BY THE LAW FOR THAT CRIME, AND IT'S LEVEL. I once had a guy give a confession and then say I violated his rights while HE GAVE a written confession.
Results? Instead of pledding like his murdering cohorts did, he wanted a trial, and he was convicted by a jury WHOM ALSO VOTED ON THE SENTENCE. He liked one vote getting the death sentence FROM THE JURY.
Go back to law school. that is, IF you have ever been in the first place.
As far as the the sentence it would depend on the LEVEL OF VIOLENCE AND OTHER FACTORS, as to why he got 90+ years. And! As you said: YOU DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS OF HIS FIRST CONVICTION. Or trial by jury it seems also. You seem to be doing the same thing Mr. Huckabee did.
Also you need to research the duties of Governor. He is not part of the Judicial System in the relm of deciding court cases. He mis-used a power that was for "special circumstances". And like you, he spoke and acted on something HE DIDN'T KNOW "ALL" THE DETAILS ON.
As you advised alsagar, perhaps you should "think before you speak".

[Dee]

You may not like it, but at least attempt to understand it. 

Oh, I do understand it.  Huckabee issued twice as many pardons as the previous three AR governors put together.   Huckabee is a lily livered scum lover.  There goes great white hope Mike Huckabee's hopes for 2012.  Clemmons is Huckabee's Willie Horton albatross. 

Yep, lets all blame the cops for hanging out in their favorite coffee shop.   Let's give Huckabee a pass for letting a violent felon loose on US society. 

Of course you do alsaqr. Casull is the one talking when he should be listening. He has not a clue what he is talking about. He's just busy straightening folks out, by telling them their wrong, when he is the one that needs straightening out. He's watched too much "court tv".

[dukkillr]

The arrogance is flowing even more than usual.  Since I suspect no one commenting here was present for sentencing or parole hearings, seen the case files, or even bothered to read a motion or transcript, no one is in a position to make grand pronouncements about why or why not someone did something.  As someone who sees cases from start to finish I can promise you that to make an informed decision it's usually important to be informed, and to question the judgment of others it is helpful to know at least as much as they did.

Actually you are both wrong, and both right.  In some states the only sentence imposed by a jury is a question of death penalty or not.  That is the case here in Kansas.  In other states, such as Arkansas, juries handle sentencing after a verdict but not in pleas.  Since he was a juvenile at the time he may not have even had a jury trial.  That right wasn't extended to all juveniles until just recently.

If you actually want some knowledge here's an interesting study from Vanderbilt on the difference between judicial sentencing and those done by juries:
http://law.vanderbilt.edu/faculty/publication-pdfs/download.aspx?id=3072

But here's the key:  He was revoked on his original parole.  HE WAS REVOKED.  Do you know what that means?  That means he was sent back to do his original sentence, or 47 years.  He was also apparently convicted of the new crime and given 10 years.  And then he was released, somehow.  Huck blamed prosecutors there... not sure that's true...  Maybe he was given parole again?  I'm not sure anyone has made these details public but at least some of it will be public record and will come out.

I'm actually with Dee on this one... If I was a governor I'd have a hard time altering sentences for violent cases.  Looks like Huck had this type of problem before too...  On the other hand, I haven't seen the motions, records, or files, so it's hard to make grand proclamations, or at least to make them intelligently.  Time will tell where the mistakes lay, there will be plenty of blame to go around, and I suspect that is deserved.

[Redtail1949]

activist judges even misguided governers all let "THEIR FEELINGS" hang on their shirtsleeves. ...oh he had a horrible childhood oh he had no chance..on and on ad nauseum.

the real point is that they should leve the decision of the jury intact unless and i said unless there is certain reason to believe that the decision was not based on the facts of the case. bribery of a juror or some stuff like that. Anytime it is a sadistic serial murdere or a child rapist case there is no rehabilitaion of people like that. put tyhem in prison or execute them and that is that. quit trying to believe that there are any redeming qualities of such a person.

[powderman]

REDTAIL. YEP, agreed. POWDERMAN. 

[Casull]

Hate to bust your bubble Casull but, you don't know what your talking about.

Hate to bust your bubble Dee, but you don't know what you are talking about.  Arkansas sentences are meted out by the judge.  A jury may sentence a defendant, subject to the judge's consent.  And even after the jury issues the sentence, the judge may reduce it, and in any event, the judge imposes the sentence.

Arkansas Code Annotated section
16-97-101 governs the bifurcated sentencing procedures in Arkansas, and it provides in
subsection (6) that “[a]fter a plea of guilty, the defendant, with the agreement of the
prosecution and the consent of the court, may be sentenced by a jury impaneled for purposes
of sentencing only.

Actually, jury imposed sentences are fairly rare, and even in death penalty cases where the jury votes on it, the judge typically has the last say.

I once had a guy give a confession and then say I violated his rights while HE GAVE a written confession.

You're rambling again, Dee.  That has nothing to do with the issue at hand.  

Go back to law school.  that is, IF you have ever been in the first place.

Well, I actually have.  Have you?  

Also you need to research the duties of Governor. He is not part of the Judicial System in the relm of deciding court cases. He mis-used a power that was for "special circumstances".

I think you need to follow your own advice, Dee.  Show me where it is written that a Governor is limited to granting pardons in "special circumstances".  He is not so limited.  And, therefore, he is part of the judicial system, at least when it comes to determining pardons.  I sure hope you were a better LEO than you are a lawyer.  

[bearmgc]

For me, the real issue is more recent. This guy was out on bail for raping a child.

[Dee]

The arrogance is flowing even more than usual. 

It certainly is, we've now got a lawyer telling us were wrong. I feel much more informed now. And he's from Kansas too. That makes it ever better.

Since I suspect no one commenting here was present for sentencing or parole hearings, seen the case files, or even bothered to read a motion or transcript, no one is in a position to make grand pronouncements about why or why not someone did something.  As someone who sees cases from start to finish I can promise you that to make an informed decision it's usually important to be informed, and to question the judgment of others it is helpful to know at least as much as they did.

Well Mr. Mason, I hate to tell ya this, but I have read numerous motions, and transcripts as well, I was a Special Investigator for a D.A.s office. And guess what? I was informed as much on this case as you were. Which was none.

Actually you are both wrong, and both right.  In some states the only sentence imposed by a jury is a question of death penalty or not.  That is the case here in Kansas.  In other states, such as Arkansas, juries handle sentencing after a verdict but not in pleas.  Since he was a juvenile at the time he may not have even had a jury trial.  That right wasn't extended to all juveniles until just recently.

Well touche there mr. lawyer, I actually agree that it is different from state to state.

If you actually want some knowledge here's an interesting study from Vanderbilt on the difference between judicial sentencing and those done by juries:
http://law.vanderbilt.edu/faculty/publication-pdfs/download.aspx?id=3072

Don't need to I already know the difference, and the last thing I want to do, is read another lawyer's opinon.

But here's the key:  He was revoked on his original parole.  HE WAS REVOKED.  Do you know what that means?  That means he was sent back to do his original sentence, or 47 years.  He was also apparently convicted of the new crime and given 10 years.  And then he was released, somehow.  Huck blamed prosecutors there... not sure that's true...  Maybe he was given parole again?  I'm not sure anyone has made these details public but at least some of it will be public record and will come out.

Gosh duk, thanks for clearing up what revoked means. Those big ole lawyer words are killers, we needed a lawyer to get us thru that one. But other than helping us with that big ole lawyer word "revoke", you don't know what happened either.

I'm actually with Dee on this one... If I was a governor I'd have a hard time altering sentences for violent cases.  Looks like Huck had this type of problem before too...  On the other hand, I haven't seen the motions, records, or files, so it's hard to make grand proclamations, or at least to make them intelligently.  Time will tell where the mistakes lay, there will be plenty of blame to go around, and I suspect that is deserved.

Gosh we agreed on something else? Ah hell. I think we just got off on the wrong foot with that arrogance remark you made. I just took it wrong. Thanks duk for taking the time and coming down here with us po ole low lifes and reading us the law. It was so enlightening, and it humbles us too, to have an expert take the time to read to us and pass his own little insults out too. Arrogance? The pot said to the kettle.