Author Topic: Need more than .45LC in Alaska? (Read 2005 times)

Woodchuk · « **on:** October 21, 2003, 05:36:14 AM »

I've noticed how some people will say that the .45LC is plenty of handgun for the entire United States, with the exception of possibly Alaska...Well, I'm considering going to Alaska and was wondering if more is necessary. I'm trying to decide between a FA M97 in .45LC or M83 in .475/.480. Handloading is a definate option. I'd like to hunt with a revolver and also carry one while backpacking/hiking. I can only afford one of them, and I really only want one as I have no desire to start a collection (is that considered blasphemy on an outdoor forum :lol: ). This one revolver would have to do everything with the exception of small game.

Can I get by with the .45LC? Should I get something bigger? What do you think?

Woodchuk

Old Cane · « **Reply #1 on:** October 21, 2003, 05:54:19 AM »

I just saw a DW 445 AK model. Nice and handy at 4" to carry while out and about or fishing but not sure if it would be a first choice for huunting in that length. A DW with a 4" and 8" barrels might give you a real good all around package. It will handle hot 45LC but I'm sure no expert on AK or bears.

Varmint Hunter · « **Reply #2 on:** October 21, 2003, 05:56:43 AM »

Personally I would think that a FA in 454 would be a better choice than either of the two that you mentioned.
Bullets in .475 are somewhat limited compared to the .452 selection. The 454 would also give you more horsepower than the 480 but also allow you to shoot 45LC level ammo if you should desire to. Brass and bullets are also more available and less expensive for the 454 than the .475's.
Just my 2 cents.

VH

WD45 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 21, 2003, 07:09:20 AM »

454.... more versatility

Paul H · « **Reply #4 on:** October 21, 2003, 12:15:48 PM »

I'm a huge fan of the 480. I sold my 44 and skipped right on by the 45 and 454. I've fired many 454's, 475's and 500's, but don't care for the fast and nasty recoil. The nice thing about the 480 is you get big bullet, big bore performance, ie 400 grs @ 1200 fps, w/o heavy charges of powder and hence heavy doses of recoil.

There is also nothing wrong with using a 480 on small game, I've taken three spruce hens w/ my 480, all w/ 310 gr @ 700 fps. Very effective, but not terribly destructive.

Handloading, and better yet bullet casting as well is needed to get the utmost out of the 480. Not that you need to push the round, but to realize it's potential you need to load your own. Some may recomend more power, but to my thinking, if a 400 gr @ 1200 fps, or a 460 gr @ 1050 fps isn't sufficient, then a little bit more speed isn't the answer. The answer is a large rifle, something that is much more powerful than any practical handgun.

Woodchuk · « **Reply #5 on:** October 21, 2003, 12:33:08 PM »

Quote

The nice thing about the 480 is you get big bullet, big bore performance, ie 400 grs @ 1200 fps, w/o heavy charges of powder and hence heavy doses of recoil.

What he said. That's why I was looking at the .480 instead of .454.

But my question is do I NEED more that a .45LC...Say for moose and elk?
Also, would a .45LC in a rifle be preferred over the revolver?

Smokem · « **Reply #6 on:** October 22, 2003, 12:59:40 AM »

The 454 would be the better choice for a do it all handgun. For bears in Alaska I would go with the 454. The 45LC may be enough depending on how close you want to get to the animal. I bought a 454SRH and I love it. I have shot different factory loads thru this gun and found that the Winchester 250 grain oad is very nice to shot (not punishing at all), Cor-Bon makes several loads for the 454 including a load that shoots like a 44 mag. I am just starting to reload for the 454 and with all the bullets and powders out there an easy shooting, non recoil punising load can be made. And remember you can shoot 45LC's thru your 454. Just my
2 cents.

WD45 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 22, 2003, 01:09:26 AM »

Yes, The 45LC will take elk and moose with no problem providing you are using the right load in a strong gun. The 45LC in a rifle is a lot of power in a small package. I am talking Rossi mod 92 here not the other Win / Marlin models. They will not take the pressure that the Rossi will take.
Check out John Taffin and Paco Kelly's articles on the 45 colt. They will give you more useful info than what I can give you in a post reply including some of the loads they use. I have a Rossi in 45 LC and have seen what it can do loaded to top end. The main drawback to the 45LC is the availability of off the shelf ammo. There are only a couple of companies that make ammo at the power level you will require. It is on the pricey side and you will not find it at walmart or Dicks. If you load your own you can get power levels from cowboy to low end 45-70.
Hope that helps :-)

Old Cane · « **Reply #8 on:** October 22, 2003, 04:03:48 AM »

I've read Paco's article but where can I find JT's?

WD45 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 22, 2003, 04:27:11 AM »

Have you tried sixguns.com ?
If you cant find it I will try to email it to ya

Old Cane · « **Reply #10 on:** October 22, 2003, 04:33:09 AM »

Thanks. I used to have that site bookmarked but guess it got deleted. I had forgotten about it. I hav a look, thanks.

Paul H · « **Reply #11 on:** October 22, 2003, 05:47:06 AM »

The only advantage the 454 has is as a long range round, due to it's higher velocity. If one is hunting with iron sights, that is a moot point, because you're ability to accurately place your shots will run out before the trajectory becomes an issue. Once you get consistant pass throughs, the only way to do more damage is shoot a larger dia bullet.

Look at the results of the 2002 Linebaugh Seminar. My 460 gr bullets at a measely 1100 fps from a 480 penetrated 38" of wet newsprint, and in the bone test 2-3" bone plus 12" of newsprint. Penetration was on par with heavy bullet 45 loads, 475's and 500's. The big difference is the lack of punishing recoil.

The 480 doesn't look impressive on paper, and it won't win you any bragging rights, but IMHO

you'll be hard pressed to find a better cartridge for hunting large game with a an iron sighted sixgun.

As far as whether you need more then a 45 colt (assuming ruger 6 shooter loads) is something you need to figure out. Personally, the 480 is the minimum I feel confident with for taking on moose in the real world, ie less then ideal conditions. I have enough respect for the large bears to consider the need for a large rifle. The only advantage the pistol has for bear protection is it's always on you.

Woodchuk · « **Reply #12 on:** October 22, 2003, 07:08:46 AM »

Thanks Paul H., for first reading my post and then answering my questions.

454Puma · « **Reply #13 on:** October 22, 2003, 08:35:31 AM »

If your primary purpose is to use the 45LC for elk/moose and to protect against bear it would be fine! :grin: Now I'd be more inclined to use 454 in pistol/rifle if I was going after the big bears on purpose :shock: A 45 LC with 335 gr WFN's would stomp just about anthing you'd want-even close in bears, but a 360 gr 454 would do it even better. :grin:

Paul H · « **Reply #14 on:** October 22, 2003, 08:59:08 AM »

One last comment. Someone mentioned the high price of reloading the 480. Assuming you're set up for reloading, $100 will get you a set of Hornady dies and 200 cases. I've got at least 3000 rounds through my 480, and have lost less than 2 dozen cases to minor neck splits, most of the losses were due to excessive belling when I first set up the dies. Add $30 for a pair of Lee 400 gr molds and you're set. Lee tumble lube is sufficient, and they can be shot as cast, as they come out .475" cast from wheel weights, and dead on at 400 grs. Load 7 gr unique for a mild ~700 fps load, and 21 gr of H-110 or Lil gun for 1200 fps. I see pressing little need for more versatility than that, and don't see it as killing the bank either. If you go with the Super Redhawk over the FA, you'll have more then enough money to load alot of ammo.

454Puma · « **Reply #15 on:** October 22, 2003, 06:17:11 PM »

Pual H
This just hit me -have you heard of anyone using the 480 on anything other then deer/black bear? I haven't seen anything on them being used for moose or the big bears. I know that the 45LC and 454 have taken just about everything in NA including the Big Bears. I know the 480 is new, just haven't seen it used on much. :wink:

supermag 445 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 22, 2003, 06:46:42 PM »

45 colt for elk or moose. NO problem at all. 44 mag will do just as well too. I do like the versitality of the 445 supermag do to interchangable barrels. YOu can have the 4 incher for back packing or fishing or put the 8 inch or 10 incher on for hunting anything alaska has.

But enough of my opinion. the 45 would be great for what you want and the 480 is just more of a good thing. Heck get two of them. I know you only said you can only get one. sorry but either will do But I think bigger is better in alaska, I would go for the 480. Should be good enough for whatever you want.

Good luck. But give a serious look at a Dan Wesson 445 supermag. You can change barrels for whatever situation dictates.

Brian

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #17 on:** October 22, 2003, 11:53:36 PM »

If your hunting and provided your capable of shooting it well no animal is going to know the difference between being hit by a .45 and hit by a .500 linebaugh. Now if I were being charged by an angry bear Id rather have my .500 in case the shot was marginal but hopefully youll never be stupid enough to get into that predicament. We do alot of penetration testing and the .45 colt and .44 mag with heavy cast are allways in the top 10 percent of or testing. Personally I think that the .454 is a tad fast at the top end for cast bullets and penetration suffers because of it. If you want to use jacketed the .454 will really open them up on thin skinned game. Of all the choices given so far id say it would be a toss up between a .45 and a .480 but there isnt to many .480s that ride comfortably on the hip like a 4 5/8s to 5 1/2 bisley or vaquaro.

Paul H · « **Reply #18 on:** October 23, 2003, 07:58:29 AM »

Quote from: 454Puma

Pual H
This just hit me -have you heard of anyone using the 480 on anything other then deer/black bear? I haven't seen anything on them being used for moose or the big bears. I know that the 45LC and 454 have taken just about everything in NA including the Big Bears. I know the 480 is new, just haven't seen it used on much. :wink:

I know the only rag articles I've seen have been for boars and whitetails, they tend to write about what most folks hunt. I know there are quite a few 480's up here, but I haven't been in touch with any of them to know with what they've connected. Unfortunately the area I've been hunting has more hunters than moose.

We did have an encounter with a young grizzly this spring, but it was more interested in eating grasses then bothering us, and we were more interested in continuing our hike than bothering it.

FA makes a 4 3/4" and 6" 480, I also believe that Taurus makes one in 6", and there are a few shops that cut down the SRH to whatever length you want. I've constantly debated cutting my SRH down, but it shoots so good the way it is, I don't want to mess it up. Also now that I use a shoulder rig, packing is no problemo. I hunt alot in lakes and swamps wearing hip boots, so a gun on the hip is just asking to get wet, been there, done that.

1badmagnum · « **Reply #19 on:** October 26, 2003, 10:24:09 PM »

45 bullets are much cheaper,especially if handloading.
buying a 454 gives you more options than buying a 480 ruger 475 linebaugh or 500 smith.
the 475 linebaugh will shoot 480 ruger though.
I love my 454 because the 45 bullets are plentiful and cheap,I use fmj for plinking and gold dots,golden sabers,silvertips and xtp's for hunting.
my scoped 454 raging bull is fantastically accurate,and the recoil is not so bad either.
who wants to spend $2 per round for plinking anyhow?

redhawk44p · « **Reply #20 on:** October 27, 2003, 03:55:58 PM »

My son took his first russian with a SRH 480 and the 410 Lee mold bullet he cast. It went through like the boar was made of smoke. Here is his site he bought www.ruger480.com

TScottO · « **Reply #21 on:** October 27, 2003, 04:05:27 PM »

One thing about the modle 97 is that it's not made to shoot the hot rod loads through it. It's a snazy lil but. I enjoy mine alot though it's not a 45 colt. If I was really interested in a big thumper and wanted the best quality gun I would choose the modle 83.

Good luck and be safe,
Scott

Dand · « **Reply #22 on:** October 29, 2003, 06:33:03 AM »

If you are serious about hand gun hunting don't go with the FA97 - whichever caliber you choose. Get the bigger heavier gun. While I also handgun hunt a little, I would not recommend any of these handgun cartridges for a hunting rifle. If you like big bore go with a 45-70, 450 or similar for a rifle. Get a real rifle for real rifle work up here especially for bear country.

Tankmurdock · « **Reply #23 on:** November 16, 2003, 03:29:20 AM »

When you are facing a Grizzy or Brown Bear charge any handgun feels puny. Get the most powerful handgun you can shoot, but carry a Marlin Guide Gun 45-70 on a slind over your back loaded with Corbons or Garretts hottest load!!!!

If you do see a Big bear dont fish in his immediate area (about 150 yards).

Tank

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #24 on:** November 16, 2003, 07:02:30 AM »

.445, .480, .475. whatever! Either way very few if any people up here try for a grizz with a handgun on purpose. :roll: Usually self defense is the customary reson to carry. Many people don't recommend a handgun at all for protection opting for a min. of .338 or a 12 gauge.

If the situation arises, you are going to be very up close and personnal. If you saw the bear far enough away, You should not be in the situation of needing any gun.

Firstly if you have a handgun you have to be less afraid of it than the bear. If you can't hit accurately on the first or second shot, save one round for yourself. Enquote someone else: The only reson for a handgun is to be able to fight you way back to your rifle."

I carry a 6" Smith .44 with 300 grain hard casts loaded with an amount of H110 that is probably too much. Why? Because it is always on my hip and I can manunever it in a tent more easily. If I am really concerned: 12 gauge 870, 21" slug barrel :grin: with 2 rounds of 3" steel BB's followed by three Brenneke 3" mag slugs.

mk454 · « **Reply #25 on:** November 25, 2003, 04:03:19 PM »

I think if you're on a budget then you should stay 45 caliber. The 454 is the more versatile and full power ammo is more available. Any of the big boys from 41 on up will kill a bear in a charge if you spine or brain it. (good hardcast a must!!!) If you don't, it doesn't matter what you shoot. a 600 n.e. at 20 yards in the chest of a 1000 lb brownie won't stop it before it stops you. You need to shoot it in the central nervous system. The reason most people don't recommend a handgun is b/c it takes alot of shooting to get good enough to place a bullet in the brain under that kind of stress. It takes alot of practice. On the Mark Sullivan videos (i like em so back off) people shoot charging hippos and cape buffalo dead-on with huge calibers and these animals don't flinch until they are brained. The only gun that slowed em down at all and allowed for a second shot was the 600 n.e. (and only when they were shot in the head!!) You just need to shoot a caliber that you can get good with out flinching and afford to put in the 1000s of rounds required. Maybe that's a 44, maybe a 454, or a 480 but getting in the practice is the main thing.