95 Grn Hornady SST in 6mm Remington

[Brithunter]

Hi all,

       Have been trying to find a good accurate laod and bullet in this rifle for ever!  and last year we started to make progress then other projects got int eh way. I got a new box of 6mm bullets the other week so it was time to try again. So loaded up 20 new R.P cases with Hornady 95 Grn SST over 43.0 Grains of IMR 4350 with a Rem 9 1/2 primer. Bullet seated to 3.018" COL and this was the result at 75 Metres (82 yards):-


10 rounds from cold clean barrel. The White dot is 1 1/2" Dia 

So I tried another 10:-

Pretty much the same poor result. The temp was about 45 degrees and the rifle has a Bull barrel (4 1/2lbs in Barrel weight) scope is a Simmons 6-18x40 AO Competition in Weaver mounts.

Now the sun was causing the scopes to flare, bother the rifle scope and the spotting scope, so may have a little bearing on it but not that much surely. On getting home and studying the targets in the evening I began to think about seating depths. We couldn't go longer but deeper yes so looking in my handloading records I saw that I got much better results with the Hornady 87 Grn HPBT bullet which of course has more jump to the leade so last night I loaded another 20 rounds with the same cases and powder charge using the same Rem 9 1/2 primers but seating the bullet to a COL of 2.900"
 and tested them on the field from the prone position at 70 yards (measured) this morning and got this:-


The white dot on these is 0.78" Dia. 1st shot was that low one  the 2nd was the one near the centre of the dot the other went a bit left. So I came back in had a cuppa and moved the scope over 5 clicks Right (1/8" adjustments) then got a new target and tried it again.

There is 6 rounds in this one as shot # 4 the rifle slipped on the sand bag which is only a money (coin) bag filled with sand sitting atop a ammo can.

What I find so surprising is that the bullet now has over 1/8" bullet jump to the leade and wonder now if small adjustments in seating depth might provide still better grouping?

[Graybeard]

It's all about barrel harmonics really. There generally is more than one ideal point where barrel harmonics works to your advantage tho you only need to find one of them. If your load is uniform and delivers low deviations in velocity from shot to shot then that load should be capable of excellent accuracy once you find the magic sweet spot that tunes the barrel harmonics for it.

That's why Browning and Winchester rifles with the BOSS system can be made to shoot so well. You just twist that little adjustment on the barrel until you find the sweet spot for your load. The same is done conventionally by adjusting the seating depth in or out until you find the sweet spot in barrel harmonics.

[Brithunter]

Ahhh Greybeard,

        The 43.0 Grain charge of IMR 4350 with the 100 grain Hornady SP at that COL was very near a timing node so I am informed so I thought I would try these 95 grain SST's at the same COL which obviously didn't work out. So seeing as how the shorter COL of 2.900" is showing promise I reloaded the 11 that I shot this morning and prepared another 20 new cases and loaded them with the same recipe  I will now shoot them over a period of a few weeks using the Master target idea. 10 rounds will be fired the first day using three targets, one which is the master and is used under a new target every time this is done until we have the composite group of all 40 shots on it but done over a period of a few weeks.

You put up two targets one atop the other with them perfectly alinged and shoot 5 rounds then change the top target for a new one and repeat then in a week or few days preferably at a different time of day shoot another 5 using the master underneath again. This should show up the rifle and ammuniton combinations true grouping tendancy and will show if those fliers are part of it's normaly grouping or really fliers due to pilot/operator error 

I now have 12 of the SST's left which I shall load up perhaps tomorrow for normal use should I get the change of something  if not then they too could be used to bring the composite group up to 50 shots.

[rickt300]

Brithunter, you sure seem to get your hands on some picky barrels.

[Brithunter]

Brithunter, you sure seem to get your hands on some picky barrels.

  you have me a little confused here  I believe you might be remembering previous posts of the trials with this particular rifle as I have been playing around with it for a couple of years now. When I brought it I did not expect to have these trials with it. Part of the problem is the lack of Factory ammunition in 6mm Remington here in the UK. It's just not popular here so the importers don't carry much. I did fiannly get ahold of a couple of boxes of Winchester 100 grain ammunition and it shot it reasonable well but not as well as I would have liked.

The rifle has been re-bedded as the plastic bedding had started to come loose from the wood. I think it had been tampered with by a previous owner but of course cannot be certain of that. This particular rifle has been a trial that's for sure but we are now getting somewhere with it. I would like to get 1/2" groups on our club 82 yard (75 m) range. These heavy barreled Varmint rifles are not that common in fact I have only seen a couple of them, the other was owned by a friend and his was in .308.

Off hand I cannot think of another rifle that has been this problematic. Although I do have a 243 BSA that requires work on it due to soem enlightened previous owner destroying the bedding and wrecking the barrel channel inletting in the process. I have built it up with plastic wood for test firing but it really requires more skill than i have so once I get the funds together it will go off to bob for a proper repair and regulation.

[rickt300]

Could be. My luck with the 6MM Remington has been excellent with all seeming to shoot everything well. My luck with the 243 is a bit different needing some tweaking and the 243's I have owned all seemed to have a bullet weight range preference.

[grvj]

Brithunter...on my Steyr L - I have loaded 96g RWS Conepoint behind 44g of IMR 4350, new Remington cases and WW standard primers. Case prep is limited to running through sizing die, trim to minimum, chamfer inside and out with RCBS neck tool and load. OAL is 2.785 - about 2950fps on a cool day - a great hog round here in California or deer/antelope.

Can you get RWS bullets easily in England? Pricy? 

Another great load that is more economical was Speer's 100g Grand Slam - same case (new) prep and primer but with 43.5g IMR 4350. As with any handload, drop a grain or two and work up load for your rifle.

I measure base expansion and match my loads to a factory new control round shot at same session for safety.

[rickt300]

My most accurate powder in my 6MM is H414 and it really shoots the 95 g. Ballistic Tips way better than the rifles light barrel should. I have no idea about powder availability or what bullets are easy for you to get but my rifle also shoots 75 gr. Hornady HP's powered by IMR 3031 way better than I could have expected, 3 shots into 1/2 inch or often a small hole when I am good on the trigger.

[Brithunter]

Yep the RWS Cone Points are excellent bullets but nearly impossible to get here due to the stupid lazy greedy importers  Greedy because RWS ammunition costs an arm and a leg  ::)I want some more 7x57 173 Grain H-Mantle as it's superb ammunition but the price , if they will supply it that is  , is about $6 US per round  God knows what it will be now as it was well over a year ago I enquired about it.

Not sure if I can get H414 now. I have a tiny bit left.

I shot 10 rounds today through the 6mm into 3 targets one has the whole 10 rounds on the other have five apiece  I will wait a while and shoot another five on our field then in two weeks I am back at th clubs range and will shot another 5 again using this "Master" Target underneath a new one so I can see the composite group and see if there really are any fliers or is it just the way it groups?

Thank you for your suggestions  .

[anweis]

Brithunter,
I shoot the same caliber and bullet and took my first deer with it this fall.
My rifle is a superlight Featherweight Winchester. I only shoot 3 at a time, and let the rifle cool.
Remington cases, Hornady 95 gr. SST bullet, IMR 4350 powder, and Federal 210 primers.
I use 40.3 grains of powder, and COL is 2.80". I adjusted the FL die to neck size only (did the blackened case neck trick).
My rifle is capable of 3 shot groups less than 1/2" at 100 yards, but it is fussy about copper fouling, barrel temperature, etc, and operator error This is a free floated, pillar bedded rifle with a Zeiss scope, but it will shoot 2" groups unless the barrel is cold and the shots are between no. 10 and no. 45 after copper removal and cleaning.  

My load is slow and weak, as it is a starting load. However, the damage on deer was incredible. Shot at 30 -40 yards, the bullet opened already in the hide - or while passing through it, blew 1.5-2" holes in the ribs on both sides (the exit ribs were torn in an oval shape, 1"x2.5"), and turned the lungs into a liquid. I did not find the bullet, and did not look for it, i am not even sure if it exited, exulted as i was by my first kill. I would prefer that the bullet did not exit, as i hunt among homes.  

Your handloads do seem waaay too long to me, you may get better results with less COL and less powder - 43 grains is somewhat maximum, and you may be pushing it too far if your bullets are lodged into the lands and the powder charge is so great. I don't think there is a way around it: you need to start at 40 grains, and go in 0.3 grain increments to 43 grains. I kept the COL unchanged at 2.82", and them realized that groups opened with longer COl and shrank with COL of 2.80. Your mileage may vary.      
Oh, and another thing: i completely went nuts when the 6mm and the 7x57 did not shoot right this fall - until i realized that i had mixed different batches of cases. So, i suggest to make sure that all cases come from the same batch.    

Another option would be to find and load some of the Tubb's Final Finish lapping bullets. That would take out of the picture the possibility of a rough bore (i probably will do that on my rifle).

[Brithunter]

Ok the rifle I am using is a heavy barreled (the makers claim the barrel weighs 4 1/2lbs) varmint type and I have been playing with it trying to find a good accurate consistant load for a couple of years since acquiring the rifle. First we found that the original plastic bedding was breaking loose from the stock. The rilfe was made back in the late 1970's if I recall correctly but without takign the rifle out of the stock I cannot check it. Then there was the issue with the brand new faulty scope that the importers claimed was fine yet POI moved over 2" up and dwo each shot making two seperate groups  .

I took an R.P case, the only type I have, and slit the nech a bullet is pushe into the neck just far enough to hold it then the cartridge is chambered this gives the maximum COL for that bullet. The magazine will easily take a cartridge of 3.018" and the 100 grain Hornady loaded to that length showed some promise with the same powder charge. This should put it close to the timing node and the bullet is about 1/8" off the lands so nowhere near jammed into them

The cases are not showing signs of over pressure either. As for mixing cases these are from the same batch a new one. I have a total of 200 cartridge cases all R.P as they is all I can get in 6mm Rem.

However your ideas are taken on board and I will try a shorter COL.

[rickt300]

My present rifle was bought used but the barrel seemed in very good condition. It is one that after you clean it you have to shoot 2-3 shots to get it to settle down and all I do after a shooting session, as long as it is doing well is run one dry patch thru it to get rid of any powder deposites.  I really don't put a lot of rounds thru this barrel, maybe 50 a year and it gets a thorough cleaning once a year. The barrel is fre floated and the scope is a Leupold and I have not had to do any adjustment to it for 5 years.

[Brithunter]

  I just checked and I fired the first shot through this rifle on 21st April 2006 and since then have fired some 726 rounds through it of which 40 were factory Winchester 100 grain ammunition. The Winchester shot into just over 1" at 75M.

6mm Remington is not the easiest cartridge to get stuuf for here and it was 11 months from acquiring the rifle to first shooting it as I had to order the cases in specially and the finally got fed up waiting for the dies and ordered them direct from Lee  did I mention that the importers are pretty useless here. So far we have tried the following bullets:-

Hornady 100 Grn SP
Hornady 87 Grn HPBT
Hornady 95 Grn SST

Speer 85 Grn

Sierra 70 Grn HP Match

Nosler 90 Grn Ballistic Tip
Nosler 95 Grn Partition
 and powders:-

Varget
IMR 4350
IMR 4831
Reloader 19
Reloader 15
Vhit N140

We already have an almost reasonable good load using Varget and the 87 Grn HPBT from Hornady but require a heavier bullet for use in Scotland. At a push if I can pick up some more of the Winchester factory ammo it would do in a pinch. Actually 95 grains is too light to be legal as the law in Scotland demands a minimum of 100 grain bullet weight for any Deer other than Roe. These Hornady 95 Grain SST's were actually brought to use in load development for a .243 I acquired but as it had some issues that I thought were not worth the risk of dealing with, such a bolt handle that had obviousl;y been broken off and brazed back on  even though it shot quite well it went back for a re-fund and I then decided to use the bullets in the 6mm.