Carry Gun in black bear country?

[Three44s]

I eyed a 160 pound bear that a friend had bagged.

Feeling how dense it's muscle was ....... I would not have wanted to shake paws with it ........

....... nor would I consider a .357 to be sufficient medicine.

But like the adage goes:  It's your hide!

A .41 with hard cast would be fine in my book.  I own a couple of those round shooters.

MY chosen tool:

The 629 Smith & Wesson Mountain Gun (.44 mag) as a defensive side arm.

My other two .44s are a Redhawk and a Super Redhawk ......

Three 44s

[375supermag]

Hi...
Brand new here, but thought I might chime in with my 2 cents worth...

I live in Pennsylvania and spend a good amount of time hiking and hunting in the northern part of the state, specifically in Elk and Cameron counties. While I have never even fired a shot at a black bear in some-20 odd years of hunting them, I have seen quite a few live and up close and dozens of them dead at bear check stations. Some of these bears were in the plus-400# range and that is a whole lot of bear.
I have at various times hunted them with everthing from a .357 Mag revolver to a 7mm Mag rifle and have never felt like I was undergunned. I have come to the conclusion that even the heaviest handloads in a .357 is probably a little light for black bear. It might do just fine, but then again maybe not. A charging black bear shot with a .357 might die right away or it might deliver some serious havoc on your person before expiring.
There was a bowhunter badly mauled here in Pennsylvania several years ago by a female black bear. He apparently managed to get between her and her cub while deer hunting. Totally unprovoked attack, so they can be aggressive in the right situation.
Feral dogs and coyotes are also in the area and I have shot several feral dogs over the years and a couple of coyotes.

At any rate, nowadays when hiking in bear country, I always carry a heavy caliber handgun, generally a S&W Model 57  .41 Magnum. I also carry my M1911A1 .45ACP, but that is because there are some two-legged predators running around loose out there.

[Cabin4]

I lived in PA from 1997 to 2005 and hiked, fished, camped and hunted the woods and mountains many times. Early on I carried a 357 for bear protection. I never thought it was enough but It’s what I had. I later did move up to a 44 mag because PA does have some of the largest bears in the country. I later picked up a 41 mag Taurus Tracker in titanium. It’s very light weight and with that short ported bbl, it makes a great woods carry gun. I use in griz country as well now that I live and hunt mostly out west. I don't think your giving up much going from a 44 mag to 41 mag. Not enough that a bear is going to notice. Bigger is always better in griz country but finding a balance between power, carry-ability and draw speed is important. Bear attacks are not usually long drawn out events. You need to draw quick and be able to hit the target multiple times if needed. I find this 41 in this light weight ported format gives me that ability.

[S.B.]

Cabin4, could you still hear after shooting that ported barreled Taurus Tracker,  several times?
Steve

[Ole Man Dan]

.44 Mag/250 to 300Gr w/Hardcast
.45 Colt/265 to 300Gr w/Hardcast
.454 Cas.    300Gr      w/Hardcast

RedHawk or BlackHawk is strong enough for most loads in bear country.

(If you get into bear trouble, you will wish you had a .45/70 Marlin Guide Gun loaded heavy)

[Cabin4]

Cabin4, could you still hear after shooting that ported barreled Taurus Tracker,  several times?
Steve

The muzzle blast is horrendous. Hearing protection is a must. I was at a back country hunting camp a few years back and a few guys there wanted to shoot it. They were intrigued on how the porting would work and just how the Taurus felt. So I made the mistake of pulling off a few rounds without protection so they could get a glimpse. We all decided we better go get some ear plugs before we shot any more rounds. My ears and theirs were ringing like mad. Before that time, I had never pulled the trigger without protection. I had shot my other hand guns without protection in the woods and was never really bothered by those. But that ultra short bbl and porting is a different ball game.

[S.B.]

My point, exactly. I'd never consider shooting one of these guns without hearing protection, either. In your opinion, would it be an advantage to have the porting to reduce recoil and suffer the extra noise? I don't fire my 4" model 57 without hearing protection either, it doesn't have the porting your gun does but, would if that buck of a lifetime appeared. Would you?
Steve

[Black Eagle]

My horses and I spend every weekend and some days off in bear and mountain lion country.  I have also hunted bear with a handgun. I used to carry a Super Blackhawk that I cut down to 5" but recently I bought a Redhawk .44 Mag in the new 4" SS version.  I load it with 265 grain Hornady Flatpoints and H 110. [I learned about this load many years ago from the guys who do damage control on bad bears for the state.] I carry the .44 in a small saddle bag that fits over my saddle horn but when I hike, I carry it in a belt holster.  I've never had to shoot a charging bear or mountain lion in over 30 years of looking for them and I see them often. We use air guns, shooting bears in the butt, to get them out of the feed bins down at the ranch and, we've stung some mighty big bears.  I've even whacked a couple with a big stick to get them out of the bins but then, I'm a crazy man. Black bears are rarely a real threat to anyone.

[Cabin4]

My point, exactly. I'd never consider shooting one of these guns without hearing protection, either. In your opinion, would it be an advantage to have the porting to reduce recoil and suffer the extra noise? I don't fire my 4" model 57 without hearing protection either, it doesn't have the porting your gun does but, would if that buck of a lifetime appeared. Would you?
Steve

My 41 mag is strictly a side arm for bear/mountain lion country. If deer hunting, I'd have a rifle. So it 'svery unlikely that I would have an opportunity for the buck of a lifetime and the only gun I had was the 41. However, as horrendous as it is, if it happen to be the only gun I had on me and it were legal, I would pull the trigger and suffer the pain.

I did not set out to buy the version with the porting. It just happen to work out that was the gun talking to me at the gun show that day

[45-70.gov]

i hate  ports

[Tonk]

Many years ago, I hunted in country where the grizzly bear was prevalent and it did feel good to have a .44 mag loaded up with hardcast bullets next to me at bedtime. Now black bears may not seem as bad but they kill twice as many people every year verses a grizzly. Another thing about hunting bears of any kind, is you never know when the big one is going to happen by your stand etc. It is far better to be prepared and have a big rifle to do your bidding should mr. bear come upon you!

However, the truth be known I never thought passed the fact of my .375-Wby mag and 270 grain bullets. A handgun in .44mag is still not what I call odds on your side when it comes to big bear bad bears.   I personally would say that the .454 Casull would be my minimum for defense against a bear up close.

[PASingleshot]

As far as I know, here in PA, if he has harvested his deer and has no valid tag remaining,  and is now assisting on a drive he CANNOT be armed.  That is, UNLESS he posses a CCW permit.  Then and only then can he carry a firearm.  Carrying a long gun would be a no-no.  The main reason is poaching.  If I filled my buck tag and was still toting around my rifle loaded, I'm sure Johnny Law would like to know what I'm doing.  Try to convince a WCO that you're just using the rifle as "bear spray" and protection.  I don't think that'd get you too far.  It worked the same  with coyote hunting.  I am not sure if they changed the law yet, but to be yote hunting during rifle deer season, you need a valid deer tag to be in the woods yote hunting.  Again, main reason being is our resident slob hunters who may just use the yote as an excuse to be in the woods with a rifle.

As far as a carry gun for black bears, I've honestly never worried about it here.  I've thought about it but not worried about it.   That's not to say I won't go armed, just usually not.  When I do, the largest caliber handgun I have is a Dan Wesson .357 (one of those "dreaded" guns w/o the interchangable barrels, but I absolutely love the gun.  It's the most accurate and reliable handgun I own).

[PASingleshot]

I forgot to add, as far as bear size, yes we get big ones but most are 150-250lbs.  The largest this year was in the 700lb category and the guy that shot it just got hit with poaching charges.  It seems he was plying the bear with donuts & pastries  for a while.  In Pa, we do not hunt over bait.  So there went someone's trophy, poached.  We always stop at one of the bear check stations on our way home from camp.  At the time we stopped, there had been 110 checked in  in a day & a half.  They had about 20 over 250, most in the 100-200 range, and quite a few in the 30-65lb category.

[SHOOTALL]

When you give a bear free doughnuts is it baiting or bribing ?

[PASingleshot]

I guess that would depend on what you want from the bear!

[SHOOTALL]

 

[Cabin4]

About 8 years ago a buddy of mine ran into Dr. Gary Alt who at the time was a senior wildlife biologist for the PA Game Commision. He claimed privatly, that the state has a radio collar on a 1,400 pound black bear in north central PA. He also claimed that this bear hangs out in one of the most remote areas of the state that never see's any people.

[PASingleshot]

Cabin, don't take this the wrong way, but I believe your buddy is full of it.  It sounds just like the rumor here that the game commission stocked coyotes to control the deer population or that they are now introducing, quietly, mountain lions to control the yote population.  Everybody has a buddy that heard...........

I believe the only way a black bear is going to get big is by a good constant human-supplied food source.  In PA most big bears are near the New yorkers that moved into the Poconos.  These bears consistently get bigger because of all the food they can easily get from these areas.  In the North Central Mountains (where I bear & deer hunt), we get some of the relocated bears, but nothing like that.  There is not a protein-rich//fatty enough food source to grow 'em that big naturally. We have no salmon run coming up the Susky or Pine Creek.  If you look at where the big 'uns are shot, it's near more developed areas.  The biggest legal one this year was in the 650lb range.  It came in the lower south central mountains (about 1/2hr from my home) near where the area has grown.  There are a lot of newer homes & developments in those mountains and people have garbage & bird feeders out.  Anyway, I do not mean to insult you or you're buddy, but I don't believe it (but then again, I'm a born skeptic).

[COR]

When you give a bear free doughnuts is it baiting or bribing ?

Those aren't free donuts...Just ask that fella that got caught.  He probably will spend more dining that bear than any woman in his lifetime....It was actually a pretty good story since a deputy Game Commisioner saw him with a truckload of pastries in a more remote area before season and decided he would write down the guys tag and send a note to the check stations if they saw him come in...A $10.00 tarp could a saved him a lot of hassle...He's still a slob hunter and a bad one at that.  

Gary Alt was very passionate about black bears, if he said that, I would believe it.  I just have no idea how to get a 1400lb bear from point A to point B. I am not even sure if I have enough gun available....now that is a black bear.

[Cabin4]

Cabin, don't take this the wrong way, but I believe your buddy is full of it.  It sounds just like the rumor here that the game commission stocked coyotes to control the deer population or that they are now introducing, quietly, mountain lions to control the yote population.  Everybody has a buddy that heard...........

I believe the only way a black bear is going to get big is by a good constant human-supplied food source.  In PA most big bears are near the New yorkers that moved into the Poconos.  These bears consistently get bigger because of all the food they can easily get from these areas.  In the North Central Mountains (where I bear & deer hunt), we get some of the relocated bears, but nothing like that.  There is not a protein-rich//fatty enough food source to grow 'em that big naturally. We have no salmon run coming up the Susky or Pine Creek.  If you look at where the big 'uns are shot, it's near more developed areas.  The biggest legal one this year was in the 650lb range.  It came in the lower south central mountains (about 1/2hr from my home) near where the area has grown.  There are a lot of newer homes & developments in those mountains and people have garbage & bird feeders out.  Anyway, I do not mean to insult you or you're buddy, but I don't believe it (but then again, I'm a born skeptic).

I hear you and I agree it sounds like a stretch. As I said, it is second hand info to me. But I've known this guy for years and I know he would not lie to me about what he Alt said. He did hear this first hand from Gary Alt at a dinner table in Potsville. Gary and this freind were sitting at that table with members from the Yuengling family. Its all I know.

[PASingleshot]

Ah, Yuengling.  One of my favorite brands of beer.  I have a 1/2 of a 1/2 keg of Yuengling Premium left over from bear & deer camp this year.  As a matter of fact, I believe I have a date with it tonight.  We need to finish it off so it doesn't go bad (or any worse) and I can return the barrel.

[Cabin4]

Ah, Yuengling.  One of my favorite brands of beer.  I have a 1/2 of a 1/2 keg of Yuengling Premium left over from bear & deer camp this year.  As a matter of fact, I believe I have a date with it tonight.  We need to finish it off so it doesn't go bad (or any worse) and I can return the barrel.

Some of the best beer in the country. Even thier lager lite is outstanding. Its the only lite beer I like. I can't get it out here.

[Siskiyou]

A very impressive bear that has not missed a meal.

[shot1]

The old handgun editor for Guns & Ammo Bob Milek found out that you don't want to try a 357 mag out on a bear. He shot one almost point blank between the eyes 3 or 4 times and it charged out of the cave it was in and he jumped aside and put one through it's ears, lucky shot, as it passed and killed it. The hard cast slugs had hit the skull and did not go through but slid on the skull and were found at the back of it's head under the hide. I carry a Ruger Black Hawk 5 1/2" barrel 45 Colt loaded with 250 gr. hard cast Keith type SWC with a healthy dose of H-110.

[Cabin4]

The hard cast slugs had hit the skull and did not go through but slid on the skull and were found at the back of it's head under the hide.

That will likely be a problem with any caliber from that angle. The slope of thier head is a great deflector. If I were charged, I'd be shooting at the mass charging me. I just want to put some lead on it.

[rio grande]

Is it true the bear stops his charge right in front of you and then raises up, opens his mouth about as big as an ice chest and growls at you???
That's when 'they' say you just raise up that pistol and shoot up right into the top of his mouth into the brain.
'They' say it works every time!  And very sporting.

[Cabin4]

'they' say
'They' say

The mysterious "they".......
 

[Tommyt]

he has come across black bear, big ones, and not afraid of him. He's crazy. I told him he needs to arm himself with a hand gun

You did your Part 
The only thing I see you didn't do 
 have him committed or or seek Counseling

I'll pray

Merry Christmas

Tommyt

[SHOOTALL]

This open mouth shot thing , Do THEY say the bear will be still while you aim ?

[watershed wildlife]

iuse  moa 7mm/08 , took a 400 pound blacky this year, one shot