45-70 Ammo?

[deernhog]

Hey, I want to get in here and change the topic! 

The best case scenario for me is for the bullet to expend all its energy in the game. If the bullet passes clean through, this goal is not reached, thus the concept of bullet types like hollow-points. The mushrooming effect of the HP bullet allows the bullet to expand, and expend more energy in the game.

The concept of a bullet expending all its energy in game is a fallacy.  The only thing that matters is the wound channel created, and if that includes an exit wound all the better.  A mushrooming bullet does not kill by expending more energy in the target, it kills by creating a larger wound channel.

On the topic of 45-70 bullets for hogs, most hogs will die quite nicely with sound hits from the Sierra 300 grain hollow point.  However, I have the most experience with the 405 grain Remington JSP on hogs and at 1950 fps it will put them down in a hurry.  In both of my 1970's vintage Marlin 1895s (one of which I've loaded for since 1977), the Siamese Mauser I had in the 1970's, and the W&H 1871 Buffalo Classic I've had for 10 years, a 400/405 grain bullet at 1950 fps generates substantially more felt recoil than a 300 grain bullet driven the same speed.  Hence, personal observations obviously can differ.

I will take your word for it and you can call me a wuss. I ain't going to punish myself shooting those 405's at 1900 fps. No need for it turned up that hot in my hunting camp. I do agree that any of the 300/350 grn fired at the same fps as a 405 has never kicked me harder or sharper.

[Swampman]

The 405 is the way to go if bearable recoils is your goal.

[Coyote Hunter]

The 405 is the way to go if bearable recoils is your goal.

Only if you keep the velocity down and accept a rainbow trajectory.

You can shoot a 300 much faster, flatter and still have a lot less recoil.  Ditto a 350g bullet.  And both work very well on anything in NA.

[Swampman]

Not in FL maybe in other places.  The 350 is too much bullet for the .45-70.  The jacket is much too thick.

[Coyote Hunter]

Not in FL maybe in other places.  The 350 is too much bullet for the .45-70.  The jacket is much too thick.

Would that be the 350g North Fork FP, 350g Speer SP, 350g Swift A-Frame, 350g Hornady FP, Hornady 350g RN, 350g Hawk FP, one of the several 350g Alaska Bullet Works bullets, a GS Custom 350g FP  or what?  And if they don’t work, why do so many companies make them and why do many experienced hunters use them???

This is just another stupid claim on your part - 350's work very well, even out at 300 yards where the velocity of my handloads is down to the level of Remington’s 405g load at the muzzle.

I dropped a 6x6 bull elk at 213 lasered yards.  The bullet passed completely through the left front leg, entered the chest ad was recovered from under the hide on the off side.  The near-side leg bone and section of rib were obliterated and a far-side rib was shattered.  Three heavy bones, three layers of hide.  The bull just stood there for a second and then tipped over.

The next day I busted a mulie buck at 197 lasered yards.  It was a quartering away shot and a complete pass-thru.  There was 6" of fresh snow on the ground and I've never seen so much blood leakage – it looked like someone had slopped blood from a 5 gallon bucket.  Of course the “trail” only went a few feet...

Both animals were taken with a 350g North Fork.  One grizzly is down because of a 350g North Fork I sent to a friend in St. Michaels, AK.  Lots of deer and elk are down because of 350g.

Apparently you are concerned that the 350g bullets will not expand because the “jacket is much too thick”?

May I point out that hardcast bullets don’t need to expand at all to work very, very well?  Or that a non-expanded 350g bullet from a .45-70 is already the diameter of a .224” bullet that has expanded to double its original diameter and that .224” bullets have taken grizzly and polar bears, moose, elk and tons of deer?

Did I mention the 350g North Fork I recovered from the bull elk at 213 lasered yards had expanded to an average diameter of 0.80”?

LMAO.

[Swampman]

No need to waste money.  Just get the Remington 405s.  Less recoil, better expansion, and velocity retention.

[efremtags]

Apparently on your planet, physics works in reverse from earth. Please explain velocity retention and how it relates to the 405gr REM.

Don't get me wrong, I hand load these to about 1800FPS and love them, they are a great bullet on bear and much cheaper than the Hornady or other 350Gr bullets, but words like velocity retention and trajectory do not belong in the same sentence with this bullet in the 45/70. I can strap a rocket pod to my car, that doesn't make it a spaceship.

Also, the 350gr are much better quality bullets (bullets named by CY Hunter). They have semi-premium construction, that's why they cost a lot more. The REM 405 survives because it can't be driven too fast to destroy itself in the guns they are used in, a matter of weight saving its hide (or jacket) quite literally. Your statements regarding their quality is about as unqualified a statement as it gets.

And I have hunted in Florida. When shooting 75lb deer from 25 yards, I can see why you like slow 1300fps rounds. That doesn't mean they will work for everyone, so get out and hunt some other local and gain some experience on earth, where gravity makes you fall down not up.

[yukondog]

Getting back to mans ? any good 300 or 350 will kill that hog just fine,nov.26 I took a 300 lb. russian with a 270 gr. out of my 444 in one side out the other went 30' dead.Swampman what part of Fl. are you in I'm in n.w. part of the panhandle,guys I hunt everything here that swims,hops,climbs,jumps or runs and win hit with a 300 gr bullet they DIE just fine, but I have to agree that to me a 300 gr. bullet's felt recoil is lighter than the 400 gr.

[Swampman]

They work perfectly for everyone that uses them.  I've explained the recoil thing several times but it does no good.  Spending money on "premium" bullets is ok if that's what you want to do.  Pure lead works great and at 1400 fps has killed about everything on the planet.  Breaking one 1895 stock was enough for me.  I no longer abuse my guns.

[john keyes]

Apparently on your planet, physics works in reverse from earth. Please explain velocity retention and how it relates to the 405gr REM.

ha ha when I read this, I could see a little black and white TV screen with an old Outer Limits type episode where the humans had decided the evil aliens were not going to harm them and they were having a civil discussion with one another..

 

[Coyote Hunter]

No need to waste money.  Just get the Remington 405s.  Less recoil, better expansion, and velocity retention.

So now you are changing your argument (as you always do)?  Never mind that your new claims are equally wrong...

Recoil is always more for the 405's for a given velocity.  

The 405's may have a higher BC than some 350's but for equal recoil levels the 350g bullets often have higher impact velocities.

If it is better expansion I want, I’ll take the lighter, faster bullet - like the 300g HP Remington, which will shoot flatter with less recoil than the 405g Remington, expand at lower velocities and costs less.

By the way, if you want cheaper bullets, I recommend the Oregon Trail LaserCast 350g bullets – they run $0.20 each in quantities of 250 versus the Remington 300g HP at $0.30 each or the Remington 405g FP at $0.245 to $0.32 each depending on quantity (100/1000).

By the way - just how much bullet do you think you need for the squib deer you have in Florida?

[Coyote Hunter]

They work perfectly for everyone that uses them.  I've explained the recoil thing several times but it does no good.  Spending money on "premium" bullets is ok if that's what you want to do.  Pure lead works great and at 1400 fps has killed about everything on the planet.  Breaking one 1895 stock was enough for me.  I no longer abuse my guns.

So why waste you money on Remington 405g bullets when you can buy pure lead 300-350g bullets for much less and make them even cheaper?  I guarantee you they will work as well on your squib Florida deer as they do on elk.

You haven’t explained the recoil thing at all – only stated that the 405’s recoil less than the 300’s for a given velocity, which is pure hooey.  I don’t think even you believe it.

[Keith L]

I have had enouigh of this topic and you folks taking potshots at individuals.  This thread is locked.