Author Topic: Hey Loothy! Splain something to me! (About the republicans and Afghanistan) (Read 3537 times)

Questor · « **on:** December 03, 2009, 05:09:49 AM »

Why are the republicans so enthusiastic about escalating in Afghanistan. Carl Rove. New Gingrich. What gives? Are they just encouraging Obama to create an entrenched situation that they can blame him for later?

Cabin4 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 03, 2009, 05:42:05 AM »

Quote from: Questor on December 03, 2009, 05:09:49 AM

Why are the republicans so enthusiastic about escalating in Afghanistan. Carl Rove. New Gingrich. What gives? Are they just encouraging Obama to create an entrenched situation that they can blame him for later?

They support him on the surge of troops but they do not support him on the timeline to pull out. Perfectly legitimate argument. I think we should just pull out now. I could care less about that place

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 03, 2009, 06:15:04 AM »

most republicans or right leaning people are willing to fight our enemy and kill them over there rather than here. timelines no one with a brain would ever put a timeline on a war.

we are there and i believe we should stay an kill the ones we want..i do not believe we should build anything other than what it takes for our troops. i do not believe we should involve ourselfs in their internal affairs. kill our enemy and those that support them when we have done that pull out.

dukkillr · « **Reply #3 on:** December 03, 2009, 06:21:55 AM »

Quote from: Redtail1949 on December 03, 2009, 06:15:04 AM

most republicans or right leaning people are willing to fight our enemy and kill them over there rather than here. timelines no one with a brain would ever put a timeline on a war.

we are there and i believe we should stay an kill the ones we want..i do not believe we should build anything other than what it takes for our troops. i do not believe we should involve ourselfs in their internal affairs. kill our enemy and those that support them when we have done that pull out.

How can you honestly believe that will happen?

Wait, maybe I'm misreading you. Are you saying that we stay there until we kill Osama (probably in Pakistan though...) or do you propose to provide a list of individuals we should kill? Once that list is scratched off we can go home? If so, ok.

But if you are proposing a more broad ranging "kill everyone who doesn't like us" that will never end. To make your strategy work just assume you will be in Afghanistan forever. Each terrorist you kill is a good thing, but your presence alone creates terrorists... and then what do you think that terrorists kids are going to think about the Americans who killed their father? I'll give you a hint, they'll want to kill Americans too...

The Vietnam war was conducted under the idea that if we just killed enough bad guys we'd win. What we learned is that bad guys were created at a rate would could not defeat. Afghanistan is no different in that aspect of the problem.

Since I don't think we can "win" in any meaningful way I'd leave their problems to the Afghans. Strangely, that means I agree with Cabin and Dee...

Cabin4 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 03, 2009, 07:26:59 AM »

I agree with duk's assessment and I don't think we could ever be successful at "killing them all" (whoever that is) unless we nation build at the same time. You must nation build in order to support a long term viable solution otherwise, you leave a war torn country without the "tools" and a chance to succeed. Without nation building, we will simply create a vacuum for the Taliban and Al Qaeda to regain the country after we pull our troops out. Now that our jr president has announced a timeline, the Taliban and Al Qaeda will simply wait it out. It’s their country not ours. The Taliban and Al Qaeda aren’t going any other place anyhow.

We should never have went in and we should simply pull out, cut our losses and let the Taliban have the damn place. We simply need to change our horribly failed foreign policy which will take many years to do. We need to stop creating terrorist so we don’t have to fight them to begin with.

alsaqr · « **Reply #5 on:** December 03, 2009, 07:37:29 AM »

Quote

The Vietnam war was conducted under the idea that if we just killed enough bad guys we'd win. What we learned is that bad guys were created at a rate would could not defeat. Afghanistan is no different in that aspect of the problem.

+1

The worst thing the US did in Vietnam was to bomb South Vietnam. Every time US bombs killed non-combatants in the south the US made more enemies. The US dropped 7 million tons of bombs in Vietnam: More that was used during all of WWII and we still lost that war.

The Bush administration wussed around in Afghanistan for seven years. A request for more troops sat on Bush's desk for 8 months: It was still on his desk when he left office. Where was that fat little homo Rove when that was going on?

Millions of Afghans are living in refugee camps: They are getting very little help from Karzai or the US. These squalid camps are a fertile recruiting ground for al Queda and the Taliban.

God bless our fine troops.

Dee · « **Reply #6 on:** December 03, 2009, 07:39:48 AM »

Well duk, just as strangely, I agree with your analogy of the the war. We continually pour gasoline on an already hot, and basically out of control fire.
It is like stirring up an ant bed. Kill the ones on top, and they just keep coming up out of the ground. It is, and will be endless.

Another excellent point alsaqr. When your dirty, hungry, and living in a tent, or worse, and see well fed, well equipped American troops bombing your village, pay back might enter one's mind. The Taliban and company are not fighting to free Pakistan, or Tibet. They are fighting to rid themselves of invaders, which are US! We can see it as differently as we want, but they don't.
Bomb the training camps, apologize for the noise, and fly back to the house.

gwhilikerz · « **Reply #7 on:** December 03, 2009, 09:44:27 AM »

Guy on Fox News said that there are only about 100 Al-Quaida in Afghanistan. Just enough to keep us all abuzz about a surge. We are fighting the Taliban, not Al-Quaida, trying to keep them from a face-off with that idiot Karzai and his warlord government. To me that means we are nation building. We do not need 100,000 troops tied up in Afghanistan. We need to be mobile and hit the terrorist where they live. We have forgotten the original purpose for the War on Terror (oops we don't call it that anymore do we?)

Graybeard · « **Reply #8 on:** December 03, 2009, 10:52:18 AM »

There is NOTHING TO WIN in Afghanistan. Our REAL ENEMIES are not there. Our REAL ENEMIES just want us to think the folks who are there are our enemies. Make no mistake I do think islam is bad and that there is no real way to peacefully coexist with muzlims but that's best handled by just not letting them in here to begin with not by killing them indescriminately over there.

The REAL ENEMY are the super rich elite I most often refer to as a cabal and TM7 likes to call the Illuminati. I'm sure they have a name for themselves tho what it might be I'm not sure. They are in control of our politicians and the politicians are doing their bidding not that of US citizens. Until folks wake up and realize what's really going on things will just continue to get worse. Hell folks Alqueada however it is correctly spelled is NOT the enemy in fact they and the CIA are bosum buddies and are on the US payroll even now. The CIA needs the drug profits from Afghan dope to fund their clandestine operations.

Folks if ya don't wake up and see what's happening soon it's gonna be too late and then it won't really matter.

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 03, 2009, 11:39:19 AM »

Killing bin Laden is immaterial other than being symbolic. Of course band will play confetti in the strets but meaningless in the overall. Your right there is nothing to "WIN" only an enemy to kill. I say stay and kill as many as we can win they are down to a size of being of no consequence leave.

I disagree with the theory that we only make more bad guys..... I base that on say Germany in WWII we killed untold thousands of solfiers mothers father brothers and sisters. Japan the same. There was no ongoing hatred and will to destroy us for those occurences after the war. None of any consequence.

Why? We beat them down so far and without mercy we broke their will to fight. Their children cried many a night I am sure over their parents that died in fire bombing raids of allied forces. yet they had no desire for further destruction and death.

the same must be done with these so called terroist. if we pound them to dust each and every time we can without mercy no crime scenes no court rooms nothing but unrelenting death and destruction....that is what war is. not this treat them nice don't kill any during Ramadan and the on and on rediculous crap put out by our PC Presidents and now shockinly enough the PC military. Look today you as an American are welcomed to Viet Nam as a tourist and will not be molested and we killed thousands of innocents there.

We must use all means except nukes of course to crush this enemy. Those that harbor them and lose members of their families because of it tuff stuff i do not give a dang. those that die from simply being there around those maybe they do not help..I am sorry but so be it. they will learn to fear us more than them and just might turn them away if possible when they move in. or they might give us a call an help us kill the ones that bring death to their families. War is not a game War is not about hearts and minds War is not something that you persue full tilt up until some religious season of the enemy is upon us. You kill those sob every day every nite until they collapase exhuasted with no will or desire to continue. Do not try to tell me it can not be done it can be and has been done with the most fanatical fighters on earth time and time again by us.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 03, 2009, 11:58:09 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on December 03, 2009, 10:52:18 AM

There is NOTHING TO WIN in Afghanistan. Our REAL ENEMIES are not there. Our REAL ENEMIES just want us to think the folks who are there are our enemies.

How very true. And our jr so called president has fallen into the trap. It utterly amazes me just how stupid the American masses have become.

Dee · « **Reply #11 on:** December 03, 2009, 12:12:30 PM »

Quote from: Cabin4 on December 03, 2009, 11:58:09 AM

Quote from: Graybeard on December 03, 2009, 10:52:18 AM
There is NOTHING TO WIN in Afghanistan. Our REAL ENEMIES are not there. Our REAL ENEMIES just want us to think the folks who are there are our enemies.

How very true. And our jr so called president has fallen into the trap. It utterly amazes me just how stupid the American masses have become.

Doesn't amaze me. It quit about 30 years ago.

a4beltfed2000 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 03, 2009, 12:12:47 PM »

While I agree that we will not win the war either in Iraq,Iran, or afghanistan. There is no reason that we should rebuild anything over there,if it were me, I would level the whole %%^%$#@ country, they brought it upon themselves, as far as rebuilding. We are simplely adding to our own problems later on.Pull our troops but be forwarned that we will be back there again, if you dont think that we will be attacked again, you are a fool.

Pull our troops, all of them, and close all military bases outside the US. Take them and construct a 20 ft wide double fence between US and mexico, line it with a high density mine field and have our troops patrol/ train there. Next time a terrorist group attacks us, NUKE the county they are living in I dont care what POS mid east country it is......

rio grande · « **Reply #13 on:** December 03, 2009, 01:11:17 PM »

Quote from: Redtail1949 on December 03, 2009, 06:15:04 AM

most republicans or right leaning people are willing to fight our enemy and kill them over there rather than here. timelines no one with a brain would ever put a timeline on a war.

we are there and i believe we should stay an kill the ones we want..i do not believe we should build anything other than what it takes for our troops. i do not believe we should involve ourselfs in their internal affairs. kill our enemy and those that support them when we have done that pull out.

Lets just kill everybody else in the whole world.
There's lots of ways to do it.
If we get 'em all early on, then we wouldn't have to fight 'em over here.
Then we would have peace at last...except for the ones over here that don't agree with us, or look funny, or something. we'd have to kill them, too.

ms · « **Reply #14 on:** December 03, 2009, 02:12:28 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard on December 03, 2009, 10:52:18 AM

There is NOTHING TO WIN in Afghanistan. Our REAL ENEMIES are not there. Our REAL ENEMIES just want us to think the folks who are there are our enemies. Make no mistake I do think islam is bad and that there is no real way to peacefully coexist with muzlims but that's best handled by just not letting them in here to begin with not by killing them indescriminately over there.

The REAL ENEMY are the super rich elite I most often refer to as a cabal and TM7 likes to call the Illuminati. I'm sure they have a name for themselves tho what it might be I'm not sure. They are in control of our politicians and the politicians are doing their bidding not that of US citizens. Until folks wake up and realize what's really going on things will just continue to get worse. Hell folks Alqueada however it is correctly spelled is NOT the enemy in fact they and the CIA are bosum buddies and are on the US payroll even now. The CIA needs the drug profits from Afghan dope to fund their clandestine operations.

Folks if ya don't wake up and see what's happening soon it's gonna be too late and then it won't really matter.

Sourdough needs to read this!

nw_hunter · « **Reply #15 on:** December 03, 2009, 06:45:34 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard on December 03, 2009, 10:52:18 AM

There is NOTHING TO WIN in Afghanistan. Our REAL ENEMIES are not there. Our REAL ENEMIES just want us to think the folks who are there are our enemies. Make no mistake I do think islam is bad and that there is no real way to peacefully coexist with muzlims but that's best handled by just not letting them in here to begin with not by killing them indescriminately over there.

The REAL ENEMY are the super rich elite I most often refer to as a cabal and TM7 likes to call the Illuminati. I'm sure they have a name for themselves tho what it might be I'm not sure. They are in control of our politicians and the politicians are doing their bidding not that of US citizens. Until folks wake up and realize what's really going on things will just continue to get worse. Hell folks Alqueada however it is correctly spelled is NOT the enemy in fact they and the CIA are bosum buddies and are on the US payroll even now. The CIA needs the drug profits from Afghan dope to fund their clandestine operations.

Folks if ya don't wake up and see what's happening soon it's gonna be too late and then it won't really matter.

I agree GB, but your singing to the choir, and there's not enough left of the choir on here to sing harmony!

magooch · « **Reply #16 on:** December 04, 2009, 03:27:24 AM »

After reading all of the expert opinions here I'm more unsure than ever about how we should proceed. I still like the nuclear option, but I need some good target info. I also need for Bill and Matt to name some names in the cabal that is out to get us. Wouldn't it be cheaper and more cost effective for the super rich elite to pay off the few remaining al Qaeda and Taliban? Then we and they (the cabal) could get back to politics as usual.

Graybeard · « **Reply #17 on:** December 04, 2009, 03:35:48 AM »

And just HOW did they (Iraq,Iran, or afghanistan) bring it upon themselves. Just what is it these three countries have done to us? I seem to recall that the folks blamed for flying those planes on 9-11 were Saudi's and all funding can be traced to Saudi Arabia not to Iraq,Iran, or afghanistan.

I keep saying this but it appears no one is listening. We are falling into the trap set by the minions of the cabal that is the real enemy. While I agree the muzlims are bad folks and that there is no real peace with them unless you become one of them or you beat them back it was NOT these three countries that did the 9-11 debacle. In fact I strongly suspect our own government officials had far more to do with it than any of those three countries or the folks living there did. Ben Laden worked for and likely if alive still works for the CIA. You are falling for the same old line of BS they want you to. It's all smoke and mirrors and slight of hand trickery to make you think the real enemy is our friend and that someone having nothing to do with the matter is the enemy.

Wake up before it's too late.

Quote

While I agree that we will not win the war either in Iraq,Iran, or afghanistan. There is no reason that we should rebuild anything over there,if it were me, I would level the whole %%^%$#@ country, they brought it upon themselves,

magooch · « **Reply #18 on:** December 04, 2009, 03:52:00 AM »

There is the little detail about the Taliban allowing al Qaeda to exist and train in Afghanistan when they (the Taliban) were running that $h1thole. They were given the opportunity to give up al Qaeda, but they refused. I guess we should have just walked away and said, Oh, okay.

ms · « **Reply #19 on:** December 04, 2009, 04:17:51 AM »

Quote from: magooch on December 04, 2009, 03:52:00 AM

They were given the opportunity to give up al Qaeda, but they refused.

Don't believe every thing you hear on TV.

Swampman · « **Reply #20 on:** December 04, 2009, 04:42:27 AM »

We had Afghanistan won until the election. Things have gone badly since the muslim took over...hummm?

Squib · « **Reply #21 on:** December 04, 2009, 05:16:12 AM »

I bet US interference allowed them to sweep the polls swampman

if I had foreigners creeping around my place (or american citizens, whoever..) I'd take every shot I could get away with. I'd call in sick with the swine flu, and shoot them. I'd "sleep-in", and shoot them. I'd take vacation days, and shoot them. on the weekends... you see where this is going. yeah suicide bombing is sick but so is kicking people around and proclaiming to be the savior of their squandered lives.... I've personally done it and know what it's about (the kicking, not the suicide bombing

)

an eye for an eye, but not a sin for a sin- think about it

Swampman · « **Reply #22 on:** December 04, 2009, 06:02:18 AM »

You've lost your mind.

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 04, 2009, 06:09:01 AM »

lets ee if we are not taking over any country to keep that leaves only killing those we say are our enemy. thats the measure of winning there is no other.

pcking78 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 04, 2009, 06:14:34 AM »

Are you guys kidding me?

?? The govt. had more to do with 9-11??? Somehow the govt. that can't run a cash for clunkers program effectively or even stop medicare fraud and they supposedly killed 2000 americans on 9-11 without anyone turning up any credible evidence.
   As far as Afghanistan, I don't know what the right course of action is. I will say this, if we are going to stay and fight, a timetable is the dumbest thing to ever put in place during a war.
   The other thing is that you have to understand, Afghanistan is a very fractionalized nation made up of many tribes. If you want to end support and toleration of terrorists, you have to increase the cost. If a village houses an al quaeda training camp, you bomb the village. The next village down the road won't be as likely to be so tolerant of terrorist hiding out in their backyard. If anything, we should leave right now with the threat that if the Taliban starts taking over we will carpet bomb those areas. Then the tribes will turn against them, knowing that if they allow the taliban to take over their area, the Americans will be back with a vengence. Use their hatred of us against the Taliban so to speak.
   Squib, I don't know what you are calling "kicking around"; but my college roomate was killed by an IED in Iraq, and the only kicking around that happened in his area was the purification of water, playing soccer with kids, and reaching out to the Iraqi people. America has never taken over a country for occupation reasons in 200 years of history. If those people with their limited education can't deduce that through the opening of schools, medical facilities, and the many over ways we've reached out to them, then to hell with them.

Squib · « **Reply #25 on:** December 04, 2009, 05:59:45 PM »

I got hit by an ied too. I don't feel sorry for your buddy either. He was a grown man, he made the choice to go to a hostile environment. His number came up. That's how the Military works- some people don't come back. While he might not have been one of the people that was kicking in doors and raiding houses, people wearing very similiar uniforms and from the same foreign body WERE doing those things across Iraq. I never blamed anyone but myself for what happened to me, so I don't feel pity for anyone else (that gets shot or blown-up). A Marine or Soldier is never a victim in a combat zone, they're not kidnapped and released into that hell, they pack their belongings and go willingly. If you're so fired up about it then do what I did and get yourself on a plane to MCRD (boot camp).... or shut your mouth.

Swampman · « **Reply #26 on:** December 04, 2009, 06:02:55 PM »

This post sounds very fishy IMO.

Squib · « **Reply #27 on:** December 04, 2009, 06:28:23 PM »

Have you been there swampman? Don't talk about the news and what your cousins and co-workers have told you about it, have you been there? Don't say it's right just because the propaganda on television said it is. I bet most people screaming about how the government and military should go stomp around in the sandbox haven't had the balls to do it themselves. from now on people screaming about going over and raising hell, nuking and bombing, or torturing-- make sure you tell us what dates you were deployed, your battalion and MOS too. If you've not volunteered, if you're NOT going to volunteer, then don't volunteer others to go overseas and fight a war that can't be won, won't be truly supported from an offensive/war-fighting standpoint, will burn soldiers for politically correctness to save a few officers resumes, will cost billions, will cripple and kill good men young in life. If you're not willing, then don't say others need to do it, and don't act so indignant that I called you on it, arguing won't make you a bigger man- definitely not a veteran.

THAT'S A BOMBING, a hard hitting concussive reality check BOOM!

anyone that's served want to pipe up about being a tough guy and killing rag-heads?... talk about ptsd and guilt... also want to shut-up the civilians that know it all except directions to the recruiter's office!

Swampman · « **Reply #28 on:** December 05, 2009, 02:32:43 AM »

The more Muslims we whack the better off this planet will be.

Swampman · « **Reply #29 on:** December 05, 2009, 02:34:54 AM »

Quote from: Squib on December 04, 2009, 06:28:23 PM

Have you been there swampman? Don't talk about the news and what your cousins and co-workers have told you about it, have you been there? Don't say it's right just because the propaganda on television said it is. I bet most people screaming about how the government and military should go stomp around in the sandbox haven't had the balls to do it themselves. from now on people screaming about going over and raising hell, nuking and bombing, or torturing-- make sure you tell us what dates you were deployed, your battalion and MOS too. If you've not volunteered, if you're NOT going to volunteer, then don't volunteer others to go overseas and fight a war that can't be won, won't be truly supported from an offensive/war-fighting standpoint, will burn soldiers for politically correctness to save a few officers resumes, will cost billions, will cripple and kill good men young in life. If you're not willing, then don't say others need to do it, and don't act so indignant that I called you on it, arguing won't make you a bigger man- definitely not a veteran.

THAT'S A BOMBING, a hard hitting concussive reality check BOOM!

anyone that's served want to pipe up about being a tough guy and killing rag-heads?... talk about ptsd and guilt... also want to shut-up the civilians that know it all except directions to the recruiter's office!

I served and my son is there now. Nothing you could do would make me believe you've been in the service.